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3 minutes ago, jim mk2 said:

You're missing the point. Haven't you read the earlier posts and analysis in the media? Labour didn't even contest the seat and its local operatives were out actively helping the Lib Dems candidate.

This isn't about Labour but a shock swing against the Tories. It's the 14th biggest swing in by-election history and a massive and unexpected jolt to the political system

I’m not up to speed on this Jim I’ll be honest, but that swing is massive, centred around HS2 I’ve just read and the Tories concentrating on Northern red wall seats and ignoring the Southern seats.

Batley and Spen next, hopefully Kim Leadbeater holds the seat.

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I’m having to hold back my real opinion on this or I’d get a ban, needless to say she’s talking absolute shite from behind the walls of her mansion in the country.

“Some people on furlough are avoiding a return to work because it has been "great" for them, former business secretary Dame Andrea Leadsom has said.

She said there were some who did not want to go back because they have a garden, have "great vegetables growing" and have been able to go walking”

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-57531637

Edited by Gav
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3 hours ago, jim mk2 said:

It's the 14th biggest swing in by-election history and a massive and unexpected jolt to the political system

Is this a serious comment btw? 
 

The 14th biggest swing in by-election history.

In fact, I’ve decided, you aren’t serious 

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2 minutes ago, jim mk2 said:

I've very pleased you've made a decision, I trust that you are happy to live with it and it doesn't affect your life chances

Here's the story

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/jun/18/from-bermondsey-to-bradford-the-biggest-byelection-shocks

Ok the guardian has said it so it must be true 

But I will repeat the 14th lol

Swings from Labour to others make up 3 out of the top 5 too 

“Shockwaves” 

 

 

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13 hours ago, jim mk2 said:

Labour didn't even contest the seat seriously 

So if Labour didn't even contest why has Keir Starmer's director of communications quit cos of the by election defeat and coming fourth in the results

 

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For those who believe Labour voters didn't transfer their votes:

Angela Craft, 68, said she learned about the Lib Dem win because of the reaction of her 71-year-old husband, Alan, a longtime Labour supporter who had voted tactically, when he checked the result on his phone on Friday morning.

“The first I knew about it was at 7.30am when he started jumping around for joy in the bathroom,” Craft said. “I didn’t know what was happening. For a moment I thought we’d won the lottery.”

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/jun/18/the-votes-kept-piling-up-how-chesham-turned-away-from-tories

 

 

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On 18/06/2021 at 12:24, Ewood Ace said:

What I am supporting is the Education and training centres that have been provided to those in Xinjiang who could potentially be groomed by terrorist organisations and I also support the fantastic effect that they have had in combating terrorism and keeping the entire population of Xinjiang safe.

Good grief 🤦‍♂️ you need to stop drinking the kool aid. Education and training centers indeed. Possibly modeled on the excellent work facilities provided by the third reich for their troublesome minorities. 

22 hours ago, Ewood Ace said:

Let's look at the history of the Chinese Government. Before Chairman Mao declared nearly 72 years ago that 'the Chinese people have stood up' China was a country that had been decimated by the war. It's GDP was virtually nothing, poverty was rife, just 20% of those of school age were in school, illiteracy rates were 80%. The average life expectancy was just 35 and there was no proper health care system.

Now in The People's Republic of China free health care is provided to 1.3 Billion people. The economy continues to grow and will soon be the biggest in the world with GDP currently at 14.7 Trillion, Billions upon billions have been spent on infrastructure creating jobs. Each region has a minimum wage for workers and extreme poverty has been eradicated, the literacy rate is 96.8%, 99% of those of school age are now enrolled in schools, education is provided by the state. The average life expectancy has now more than doubled to just over 77 years of age. 

How about giving some credit for these incredible achievements which have greatly improved the lives of over 1 Billion people?

So the end truly does justify the means. GDP and wealth matter more than rights and liberty. 
 

edit - I’d also like to add that the huge improvement in quality of life for the Chinese population is primarily down to China joining the western world in finally undergoing the industrial revolution. It’s not down to any particular ingenuity or specific advantage that communism brings to the table. Mid 20th century communist Russia went through the same process, and similarly to China they had many millions of deaths along the way. There’s no doubt that the average Russian or Chinese person is materially better off now compared to pre-industrial times, it’s the same for every modern industrialized nation.

The advantage of living in a country which values personal liberty and freedom is that the cost of prosperity is not measured in blood and oppression.

Edited by The Hypnotic
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3 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

So if Labour didn't even contest why has Keir Starmer's director of communications quit cos of the by election defeat and coming fourth in the results

 

I'm really glad you managed to bring this up because quite frankly people were clutching at straws focussing on the Tory party of late.

I mean look at them twisting the statistics as if a bigger drop in votes for the conservatives and the 14th biggest swing means something to the Tory party. And it's so hypocritical too after you scarcely mentioned the Labour loss in Hartlepool. As I said clutching at straws. 

Then there's everyone taking the piss focussing on nonsense like the government stripping the electoral committee of its powers. Like that is relevant or newsworthy. What difference could that possibly make to democracy? 

And then you have Gav negatively spinning the government's insightful on the ground comments highlighting all these furlough layabouts too. I mean surely a highly paid government minister knows what all those furloughed minimum wage bar staff have been doing. Finger to the pulse on that one, another thing to applaud the government for. 

And on furlough isn't it shocking too people are complaining about it not being extended. Hey they had plenty of notice the scheme was ending and they couldn't go back to work. Weeks even - they should have been prepared for it. 

No I'm glad we have posters like yourself who cut through the crap and ignore all this irrelevant negativity about this government. It's a witch hunt I tell you with no grounds to be critical of our glorious leader. Good job there's no mention of any of this from you, leading the way in impartiality and objectivity. 

 

Would appreciate a repost so Chaddy can see he's totally supported in these baseless attacks Vs the Tories. 

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30 minutes ago, The Hypnotic said:

So the end truly does justify the means. GDP and wealth matter more than rights and liberty. 

You talk about rights should it not be a right to be able to have free healthcare, to have a free education, to be able to be able to read and write, to have a minimum wage, to have jobs, to not live in extreme poverty? You may not think that people should have those rights but a lot of people do think they are rights that everyone should be entitled to and in less than 72 years The People's Republic of China has delivered that to the most populous country on the planet.

I know a lot of people would like to see China back in what they see as their place as a nation there to be plundered and pillaged by empires. But they have to get used to the new order of things because as Chairman Mao declared on October 1st 1949 'The Chinese People Have Stood Up' and all the better they are for it.

3 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

So if Labour didn't even contest why has Keir Starmer's director of communications quit cos of the by election defeat and coming fourth in the results

 

A bad night for Labour undoubtedly losing 6,500 votes from 2019 but did you notice that the Tories lost 17,361 votes on what they got in 2019?

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3 hours ago, Ewood Ace said:

You talk about rights should it not be a right to be able to have free healthcare, to have a free education, to be able to be able to read and write, to have a minimum wage, to have jobs, to not live in extreme poverty? You may not think that people should have those rights but a lot of people do think they are rights that everyone should be entitled to and in less than 72 years The People's Republic of China has delivered that to the most populous country on the planet.

I know a lot of people would like to see China back in what they see as their place as a nation there to be plundered and pillaged by empires. But they have to get used to the new order of things because as Chairman Mao declared on October 1st 1949 'The Chinese People Have Stood Up' and all the better they are for it.

It is only you who claims people want to see China “back in their place” 

Essentially, I want China to be as prosperous as China can be but I don’t see that as an excuse to take away liberty and treat minorities as second class citizens 

I don’t want to see the freedom of press eroded in favour of the “state” 

You keep quoting Chairman Mao but I don’t think you realise how silly that makes you look. Mao has blood on his hands.

Your attempt to gaslight people by insinuating that if they are against SOME actions of the CCP they must be against free education, healthcare etc is sickening and a very desperate attempt to reclaim some morale high ground 

It is quite obvious you value a political ideology more than you do the Liberty of minorities. If that was not the case you wouldn’t be dismissing the human rights abuses of the CCP by quoting the rise in living standards of the majority of Chinese nationals 

And, in any case, you were asked to give the source to your figures pages back and it is just another in a long line of comments that you have ignored in your pursuit of CCP sponsored slogans and denial of the truth 

It seems that when a comment, piece of data or evidence is brought to you that you have no answer to your solution is to ignore it and quote Chairman Mao. It is mind numbingly stupid but nevertheless your position has been made clear 

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22 hours ago, Gav said:

I’m having to hold back my real opinion on this or I’d get a ban, needless to say she’s talking absolute shite from behind the walls of her mansion in the country.

“Some people on furlough are avoiding a return to work because it has been "great" for them, former business secretary Dame Andrea Leadsom has said.

She said there were some who did not want to go back because they have a garden, have "great vegetables growing" and have been able to go walking”

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-57531637

What a stupid clueless woman, Yes, Furlough is great for so long but only having 80% of wages and uncertainly of whether your job is safe in the long term isn't great and worry will set in and add to your uncertainly. I had first hand of experience of the furlough scheme and it was great being off work for 27 weeks and spending time with the missus for so long. Got a lot of house jobs done,  But with the lockdown restrictions and then keeping my job through the first round of redundancy but was a casualty of the second round of redundancy a couple of months later adding to uncertainly of the future and providing for the family. But I managed to find a new job during my consultation meeting stage so I was happy to leave there overall. Missed the people I work with at my former company and I am very happy in current job and the benefits we get from the company and management. 

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John Bercow on sky just said of Boris Johnson:

’He has only a nodding acquaintance with the truth in a leap year’

Brilliant 😀
 

He was asked if Hancock was useless, his reply:

’Id buy Matt at my valuation, sell him at his valuation and make a healthy profit’

😃

Edited by Gav
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1 hour ago, Gav said:

John Bercow on sky just said of Boris Johnson:

’He has only a nodding acquaintance with the truth in a leap year’

Brilliant 😀
 

He was asked if Hancock was useless, his reply:

’Id buy Matt at my valuation, sell him at his valuation and make a healthy profit’

😃

Already seeing other Tories speak favourably and voting for 'a Bercow-led Labour'.

I'd be all for it personally too.

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7 minutes ago, Mike E said:

Already seeing other Tories speak favourably and voting for 'a Bercow-led Labour'.

I'd be all for it personally too.

The Labour Party led by a Thatcherite just when you thought that they couldn't possibly move any further away from their roots. 

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18 hours ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

And, in any case, you were asked to give the source to your figures pages back and it is just another in a long line of comments that you have ignored in your pursuit of CCP sponsored slogans and denial of the truth 

It seems that when a comment, piece of data or evidence is brought to you that you have no answer to your solution is to ignore it and quote Chairman Mao. It is mind numbingly stupid but nevertheless your position has been made clear 

I haven't seen anyone ask me for the source of the data. But If you want to see them they are available on here (• Statista - The Statistics Portal for Market Data, Market Research and Market Studies), or on here (One Platform for Data Discovery, Management and Visualization, Regardless of Technical Expertise - knoema.com). They are also readily available in Books and Journals which is where I actually get them from but the same data is available in the links.

18 hours ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

It is only you who claims people want to see China “back in their place” 

Essentially, I want China to be as prosperous as China can be but I don’t see that as an excuse to take away liberty and treat minorities as second class citizens 

You may think that but let me assure you there are plenty of people especially politicians both in the US and here (particularly on the Tory here) that do want to see China back in what they see as their place.

22 hours ago, The Hypnotic said:

edit - I’d also like to add that the huge improvement in quality of life for the Chinese population is primarily down to China joining the western world in finally undergoing the industrial revolution. It’s not down to any particular ingenuity or specific advantage that communism brings to the table. Mid 20th century communist Russia went through the same process, and similarly to China they had many millions of deaths along the way. There’s no doubt that the average Russian or Chinese person is materially better off now compared to pre-industrial times, it’s the same for every modern industrialized nation.

The Soviet Union up until 1953 is again another great success story for how Socialism develops the lives of people. Again the lives of millions of people were improved, literacy rates soared, standard of living improved, homelessness abolished, a fully public healthcare system was created some 28 years before our NHS, there was mass employment, a basic wage for workers, there was gender equality, a free world class education system & economic growth of incredible levels whilst many other countries were going through the depression.

In 1917 the Soviet Union was a country with no industry whatsoever and by 1945 had been able to defeat the Nazi's, the rate of industrialisation is still unprecedented. You talk about freedoms & rights but without the Soviet Union you wouldn't have any, we would most likely not be having this conversation or at the very least we would be having it in German. The great tragedy with the Soviet Union was the path it took after 1953 which ultimately led to it's demise.

Edited by Ewood Ace
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“Another great success story” 

Obviously ignoring the millions of lives lost due to famines caused by this “rapid industrialisation”; ignoring the infamous Gulag penal system; ignoring the Great Purge; ignoring the role of secret police in oppressing anti-state opinion....I could go on 

But, yep, it was the moving away from Stalinism in 1953 that caused its demise 

Once again you have shown a chilling ability to totally disregard real loss of human life and Liberty in favour of a political ideology 

You need to find a way to see both the benefits of a certain policy whilst also balancing in with the negatives because at the moment you are making yourself look a callous hypocrite 

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37 minutes ago, Ewood Ace said:

The great tragedy with the Soviet Union was the path it took after 1953 which ultimately led to it's demise.

Eh? How many people had Stalin executed or put into concentration camps by then?

What about the great famine in Ukraine? (why the Ukraine still hate Russia today and, at first welcomed the Nazi invaders as their saviours! That's how much they thought of the USSR). That was 1932-3!

Millions starved while the USSR exported their grain to the cities.

You swallow Communist propaganda wholesale while telling us we are biased.

2 biggest murderers in history---Stalin and Mao. Mao gets the gold for the most.

Edited by 47er
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2 minutes ago, 47er said:

Eh? How many people had Stalin executed or put into concentration camps by then?

What about the great famine in Ukraine? (why the Ukraine still hate Russia today and, at first welcomed the Nazi invaders as their saviours! That's how much they thought of the USSR). That was 1932-3!

Millions starved while the USSR exported their grain to the cities.

You swallow Communist propaganda wholesale while telling us we are biased.

2 biggest murderers in history---Stalin and Mao. Mao gets the gold for the most.

I found the “homelessness abolished” comment as heartless as anything he has said before 

It has been quite some time since I have looked up the Soviet Union but “Holodomor” sticks out in my memory 

Some 3 million+ Ukrainians died of starvation because the Soviet state seized food goods and engaged in a class war against the Agricultural workers who saw the seizing of property Communist policy as a threat to their life.

Many of those people who died were probably poor and would have died on the streets 

Eradicated homelessness my backside 

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1 hour ago, Ewood Ace said:

The Labour Party led by a Thatcherite just when you thought that they couldn't possibly move any further away from their roots. 

Does it matter? Does ideology and political purity triumph over what surely must be a common cause to rid the country of this inept, divisive and corrupt Tory party?

A & C was a seismic result - hence the panic in Central Office. There are strong underlying reasons why people are moving against the government. Hopefully you would applaud that. 

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55 minutes ago, Ewood Ace said:

The Labour Party led by a Thatcherite just when you thought that they couldn't possibly move any further away from their roots. 

Bercow says he regards today’s Conservative party as “reactionary, populist, nationalistic and sometimes even xenophobic”.

“I am motivated by support for equality, social justice and internationalism. That is the Labour brand,” he said. 

John Bercow defects to Labour with withering attack on Johnson | John Bercow | The Guardian

Seems he sees the Labour Party and Labour policies as a better fit for his own views these days. Seems an obvious move on the face of it. 

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