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2 minutes ago, den said:

there were a number of witnesses who will speak out in his favour at the covid enquiry 

Which is just one reason why we won't get one till we're all too old to remember what it was all about.

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It’s been another bad week for Johnson

The Cummings interview showed a prime minister out of his depth and incapable of governing. The result has been a one of the worst Covid death outcomes in the world and worst economic hits of any leading developed nation 

The vaccine “bounce” is over as the Delta variant takes hold and the next wave develops. The world is watching aghast as Tory-led England embarks on a huge herd immunity  experiment in which only the strongest and fittest and the luckiest will not be affected. Another lockdown by the autumn is possible. 
 

The picture is building of an embattled and increasingly neurotic prime minister isolated in his Downing Street bunker with only his 3rd (or is it  4th or 5th?) wife for support. Ministers are having to be dragged out daily to defend policy gaffes. 

An isolated prime minister who was already despised by sections of his own party isn’t going to last. Alexander de Pfeiffel Boris Johnson won’t be around to torture the nation much longer. It can’t come soon enough

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10 hours ago, 47er said:

I don't think so! But if that's what the voters want I don't see that as a problem.

I don’t think there’s a credible alternative to Tories. Whereas Labour have the Greens and Lib Dem’s. Maybe some Tories would vote liberal so that would eat away a little. 
 

On the right of the U.K. political spectrum you have the Tory party and that’s it. UKIP are insignificant now. In that case, I’d always assume the left vote is more split than the right. 

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1 minute ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

I don’t think there’s a credible alternative to Tories.

Not under FPTP there isn't. We'd have a coalition of left of centre parties with plural voting.

Depending in the numbers we'd have much higher protection of the environment, we'd never go too far to he right and someone like Corbyn would never be PM.

What's not to like?

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12 minutes ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

Or as you shown in the Brexit thread

Well worth watching if you only hear what you want to hear 

Did you watch it?

It was all there. The Brexit lies, herd immunity. Unnecessary deaths. Useless PM, useless Tory MP’s. 
 

Confirmation of what a lot of us have been saying for a long time.

Edited by den
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8 minutes ago, den said:

Did you watch it?

It was all there. The Brexit lies, herd immunity. Unnecessary deaths. Useless PM, useless Tory MP’s. 

Yep

He said that people who have an absolute decision one way or the other cant possibly know what they are talking about - that goes for remain or leave 

You took it as though he meant anyone who said Brexit was a good thing has a screw loose but in reality it was just as much a hard truth to somebody like yourself as it was to, say, Chaddy, who does think Brexit is unequivocally good, considering you are absolute in your mind Brexit is bad and go to great lengths to show it

He ended it by saying everything since 2016 vindicated vote leave and the decision to leave was a good thing to happen 

Did you watch it ? 

Edited by Dreams of 1995
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8 minutes ago, den said:

Did you watch it?

It was all there. The Brexit lies, herd immunity. Unnecessary deaths. Useless PM, useless Tory MP’s. 
 

Confirmation of what a lot of us have been saying for a long time.

Yes! Remember how people argued vociferously that the government had never contemplated the "herd immunity" approach?

Dreams---I think you were one? But that was then, you can't possibly think that now?

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11 minutes ago, den said:

Did you watch it?

It was all there. The Brexit lies, herd immunity. Unnecessary deaths. Useless PM, useless Tory MP’s. 
 

Confirmation of what a lot of us have been saying for a long time.

You hear what you want to hear den, as that clip you posted yesterday proves, if you'd have listened to it all you had heard a very different message to the one you gave on here.

You also read what you want to read and not what is actually written.

You'll be calling him Dom next 👍

 

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20 minutes ago, 47er said:

Yes! Remember how people argued vociferously that the government had never contemplated the "herd immunity" approach?

It was never government policy is what people argued and they were right, its very clear.

I believe the Sage scientists and the Public Health teams around the country, not the lying spiteful Cummings.  

Edited by Gav
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4 minutes ago, 47er said:

Yes! Remember how people argued vociferously that the government had never contemplated the "herd immunity" approach?

Dreams---I think you were one? But that was then, you can't possibly think that now?

You and den are amongst the worst of all posters on here for being so readily eager to throw this “I told you so” around. You appear very desperate to always be right. If I took note of all the predictions and arguments you two have said over the years I’ve been posting on here I would wager we’d all be about right or wrong in the same measure. Not that you would agree to that. 
 

Do I know if “herd immunity” was a policy they followed? Nope. It didn’t appear to be with a lockdown. I genuinely can’t remember my posts back then but given there was a 2 month full lockdown, and given they had daily briefings about it not being, I will assume I didn’t think they had herd immunity as a policy. 

It is almost getting to the point whereby you don’t want to post your opinion on this thread because in 6 months time the thought police will come back to tell you how everything they said was right and how everything everyone else said was wrong. Even if in the majority of the time that isn’t actually correct 

I knew as much as you back then but if I argued that herd immunity wasn’t a policy I do so with the best available information to me at the time. With respect you have a natural inclination to be cynical of a Tory government whereas I don’t. So it therefore stands to reason that when in government you will have got your criticism of them right once in a while.

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11 hours ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

Labour would lose more votes than Tories. 

Absolutely. I wonder what proportion of Labour votes were actually votes for "not the Conservatives" then there's the votes they'd lose to the smaller parties on the left. I think Labour would be decimated under PR. 

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Labours only hope of getting back into government is via a progressive alliance with Greens/Lib dems, otherwise its Tory rule for the next 10/15yrs at least, probably longer. 

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9 minutes ago, Gav said:

It was never government policy is what people argued and they were right, its very clear.

I believe the Sage scientists and the Public Health teams around the country, not the lying spiteful Cummings.  

You obviously didn’t watch it.
He confirmed what we’ve been telling you for a long time. Johnson didn’t believe covid was a threat and in March stopped all testing and allowed it to run free until he was confronted by the reality of 500,000 deaths. Follow the science isn’t what he did. He did the exact opposite.

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8 minutes ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

You and den are amongst the worst of all posters on here for being so readily eager to throw this “I told you so” around. You appear very desperate to always be right. If I took note of all the predictions and arguments you two have said over the years I’ve been posting on here I would wager we’d all be about right or wrong in the same measure. Not that you would agree to that. 
 

Do I know if “herd immunity” was a policy they followed? Nope. It didn’t appear to be with a lockdown. I genuinely can’t remember my posts back then but given there was a 2 month full lockdown, and given they had daily briefings about it not being, I will assume I didn’t think they had herd immunity as a policy. 

It is almost getting to the point whereby you don’t want to post your opinion on this thread because in 6 months time the thought police will come back to tell you how everything they said was right and how everything everyone else said was wrong. Even if in the majority of the time that isn’t actually correct 

I knew as much as you back then but if I argued that herd immunity wasn’t a policy I do so with the best available information to me at the time. With respect you have a natural inclination to be cynical of a Tory government whereas I don’t. So it therefore stands to reason that when in government you will have got your criticism of them right once in a while.

Bit defensive I think. I don't throw "I told you so" around but you were absolutely adamant that there had been no delays in declaring Lockdown and that government had never considered Herd Immunity.

For my part I've been wrong many times.  I certainly wouldn't be put off posting in case I got it wrong again.

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I thought testing stopped because of our woefully inadequate testing capacity? The number of tests vs number of cases was the equivalent of taking a piss on a forest fire. 

This is a man who was quoted (and widely condemned on here) back at the start of the pandemic as saying stuff along the lines of "if a few pensioners die then so be it, we need to protect the economy" and now we're taking his word as gospel when he says it was government policy to let it run free? Has he produced evidence that this was government policy or is it his trustworthy word against the trustworthy word of Johnson? 

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12 minutes ago, 47er said:

Bit defensive I think. I don't throw "I told you so" around but you were absolutely adamant that there had been no delays in declaring Lockdown and that government had never considered Herd Immunity.

That was me with respect 47er and I never said herd immunity was never considered, I said it was never government policy and never a strategy, which it wasn't. 

Edited by Gav
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7 minutes ago, 47er said:

Bit defensive I think. I don't throw "I told you so" around but you were absolutely adamant that there had been no delays in declaring Lockdown and that government had never considered Herd Immunity.

For my part I've been wrong many times.  I certainly wouldn't be put off posting in case I got it wrong again.

All of the SAGE members at every briefing they have had all denied herd immunity was a policy they recommended or that the govt were following 

Why would I disbelieve knighted medical professionals because of a bloke you and others spent months convincing us is a serial lair and manipulator? 
 

And now we are being told that unless we believe him “we only hear what we want to hear” 

If you two can’t fathom the irony in all of the spamming of Cummings quotes and interviews in these past few days then I can’t help you 

And to top it off with trying to suggest what people wrote years ago, and determine whether they are right or wrong BECAUSE of Cummings interview, is just a piss take really. I am starting to wonder whether you are serious or this is another Nantwich Times fiasco all over again 

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8 minutes ago, den said:

You obviously didn’t watch it.
He confirmed what we’ve been telling you for a long time. Johnson didn’t believe covid was a threat and in March stopped all testing and allowed it to run free until he was confronted by the reality of 500,000 deaths. Follow the science isn’t what he did. He did the exact opposite.

I didn't need to watch it den as you very well know, I've lived it for 18 months.

The testing stopped because the numbers got out of control, we simply didn't have the capacity to maintain testing at that stage, if Cummings is saying testing was stopped to let the virus run free and encourage herd immunity he's lying.

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25 minutes ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

Yep

He said that people who have an absolute decision one way or the other cant possibly know what they are talking about - that goes for remain or leave 

You took it as though he meant anyone who said Brexit was a good thing has a screw loose but in reality it was just as much a hard truth to somebody like yourself as it was to, say, Chaddy, who does think Brexit is unequivocally good, considering you are absolute in your mind Brexit is bad and go to great lengths to show it

He ended it by saying everything since 2016 vindicated vote leave and the decision to leave was a good thing to happen 

Did you watch it ? 

You’re putting words into my mouth Dreams. All I did yesterday was quote his words. From that you made an assumption.

For what it’s worth there are plenty of leave voters on here who argued strongly that we would be better off outside the EU. No if’s, no buts. He says those people have a screw loose - yes or no?

9 minutes ago, RoverDom said:

I thought testing stopped because of our woefully inadequate testing capacity? The number of tests vs number of cases was the equivalent of taking a piss on a forest fire. 

This is a man who was quoted (and widely condemned on here) back at the start of the pandemic as saying stuff along the lines of "if a few pensioners die then so be it, we need to protect the economy" and now we're taking his word as gospel when he says it was government policy to let it run free? Has he produced evidence that this was government policy or is it his trustworthy word against the trustworthy word of Johnson? 

Testing was being done at the time. Only at low levels compared to today but it was being done. Johnson needlessly in my view stopped it all. Cummings has said Johnson didn’t ever consider covid to be a threat and was only forced to restart testing and impose restrictions when he was shown the consequences.

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1 minute ago, den said:

You’re putting words into my mouth Dreams. All I did yesterday was quote his words. From that you made an assumption.

For what it’s worth there are plenty of leave voters on here who argued strongly that we would be better off outside the EU. No if’s, no buts. He says those people have a screw loose - yes or no?

He also says that people like yourself who are absolute in their mind Brexit is a bad thing have a screw loose - yes or no? 
 

And you have done it again. Trying to get one over on other posters. The irony is you are using a clip of a man saying what he did to do that. I can’t tell if you are serious 🤣

Edited by Dreams of 1995
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Watching the Cummings interview again I don't think he's as clever as he thinks he is.  Whilst in his governmental role, he developed an over-inflated sense of his own genius, largely because he thought he was the cleverest person in the room.

 What he failed to appreciate was that he was in a room with the likes Johnson, Raab, Patel, Gove, Hancock (until recently), all experienced politicians who have survived in the Westminster nest of vipers for years

I do think his previous motivation was a desire to bring about change in the UK - he is not someone who is political as such, but genuinely believes the system to be broken. 

Unfortunately his modus operandi seems to be to smash stuff up without having a plan to fix it - Brexit being the prime example.

I'm glad he's gone because he's caused the UK  untold damage but if he manages to help smash the Johnson administration (which he was instrumental in installing) then the country will owe him a debt of gratitude

 

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6 minutes ago, den said:

Testing was being done at the time. Only at low levels compared to today but it was being done. Johnson needlessly in my view stopped it all. Cummings has said Johnson didn’t ever consider covid to be a threat and was only forced to restart testing and impose restrictions when he was shown the consequences.

https://www.bmj.com/content/369/bmj.m1845

 

"On 12 March, as cases of the virus soared, the government announced that it would stop all community testing for covid-19 and focus instead on testing people in hospitals and protecting health workers as it moved from the “contain” phase to the “delay” phase."

 

It's not that it was stopped its that our pitiful testing capacity was refocused away from community testing. 

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3 minutes ago, jim mk2 said:

I do think his previous motivation was a desire to bring about change in the UK

I remember reading an article about him before he became a big name and whilst he does have some very questionable views there are some genuinely decent ideas for reform of the civil service and his motivation does seem to be to make government work better. That said I also got the impression he was a bully and a slimey opportunist. 

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