Jump to content

BRFCS

BY THE FANS, FOR THE FANS
SINCE 1996
Proudly partnered with TheTerraceStore.com

Politics


Recommended Posts

52 minutes ago, Gav said:

It was never government policy is what people argued and they were right, its very clear.

It was for a time and would have been for longer had Johnson had his way. Both very clear to me.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, RoverDom said:

https://www.bmj.com/content/369/bmj.m1845

 

"On 12 March, as cases of the virus soared, the government announced that it would stop all community testing for covid-19 and focus instead on testing people in hospitals and protecting health workers as it moved from the “contain” phase to the “delay” phase."

 

It's not that it was stopped its that our pitiful testing capacity was refocused away from community testing. 

Good link. Fair enough they stopped all testing within the community.  That lead to 40,000 deaths in care homes. The argument at the time was that there were still tests available for community testing but it was a policy decision to stop it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

22 minutes ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

He also says that people like yourself who are absolute in their mind Brexit is a bad thing have a screw loose - yes or no? 
 

But then again we can't trust a word he says can we?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

37 minutes ago, Gav said:

That was me with respect 47er and I never said herd immunity was never considered, I said it was never government policy and never a strategy, which it wasn't. 

That was a number of people Gav. And it clearly was government policy at the outset till the scientists convinced them otherwise--ie when they understood the implications more clearly.

"Let the bodies pile up'.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

56 minutes ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

You and den are amongst the worst of all posters on here for being so readily eager to throw this “I told you so” around. You appear very desperate to always be right. If I took note of all the predictions and arguments you two have said over the years I’ve been posting on here I would wager we’d all be about right or wrong in the same measure. Not that you would agree to that. 

If brexit had been a roaring success it would be posted on here multiple times.

I wouldn’t have a problem with that Dreams. It’s a message board and if you or I stick our necks out someone will take a swipe at it. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

59 minutes ago, RoverDom said:

Absolutely. I wonder what proportion of Labour votes were actually votes for "not the Conservatives" then there's the votes they'd lose to the smaller parties on the left. I think Labour would be decimated under PR. 

That's not a reason for opposing PR though. The Labour Party would have to fight for votes under a new system but at least it would be a fair system. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

37 minutes ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

Why would I disbelieve knighted medical professionals because of a bloke you and others spent months convincing us is a serial lair and manipulator? 
 

Once again for the umpteenth time, I haven't changed my feelings about Cummings at all. He's a little shit and it would have been better for Britain had he never been born. Like Johnson.

He's a proven liar and I would never take his word unless he produced the evidence.

He has, you just don't want to know. Like the Tory spokesman who've been summoned up in the last day or two you just make a general attack on Cummings. No-one from the Tory party ever addresses the texts and says they never existed, not even Johnson. He wrote what he wrote and he can't unwrite it. 

He just hopes everyone will forget in time.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 hours ago, Ewood Ace said:

Why do you think that the Tories lead is shrinking? Are people starting to have had enough of 'PM' Johnson.

You can't keep switching to different polls when they suited your opinion Ewood. Try again Ewood cos you aren't getting me at all. 

12 hours ago, only2garners said:

Well many voters can't do that with FPTP.

Let's say I supported the Greens or Reform UK. In my constituency where I have lived and voted for 36 years there have never been candidates for those parties (or their predecessors). There has always been a Lib Dem but that candidate has never stood a chance of winning. Therefore my vote for a choice of party who most closely represents my views can never win.

Of course this also applies to many Conservative and Labour voters in many, maybe even most constituencies in England - for many seats a vote for one or the other is a wasted vote. indeed until the last election it will have been the case for you in your own constituency of Hyndburn Chaddy.

The Greens are currently recording about 5-6% in current opinion polls. That's based on voting intentions under the current system though. If there was a more proportional voting system their share would I guess be closer to 10%. How in god's name can it be an open and free election where around 10% of the electorate are represented by 1 of 650 MPs?

The same applies to most parties most of the time, just not quite as extreme.

of course you can vote for who you want in an open and free election where you can choose yourself who to vote for. 

Have you ever thought of joining the Green party as member so you could run as a candidate in the constituency you lived in. 

Yes in the last election I got what I wanted for over 10 years and thats was Conservative MP in Hyndburn but in the previous elections that never stop me voting Conservative in any General or local elections. I always said if you put a conservative candidate with a heartbeat with Hyndburn  

11 hours ago, den said:

Just watched a fascinating Dominic Cummings interview with Laura Kuensberg.

Pretty much confirms what many of us on here have said about Johnson and his mishandling of the pandemic from day 1 and how completely useless Johnson is. 
 

When asked if he could back up many of his claims, he said apart from his notes and WhatsApp’s there were a number of witnesses who will speak out in his favour at the covid enquiry which he argues should be undertaken now.

Well worth watching unless you don’t want to hear these things.

It was fascinating watching for you cos you said what you wanted to hear despite you in the past 18 months and in fact the last 5 years slagging him off at every opportunity. 

Cummings has no respect for the political party system were members of those parties choose their leaders in a democratic way. After Johnson and Conservative Party won a landslide general election, he and some of his group thought our ousting the Prime Minister days after that General election. He is no respect for our political world or our MP's on both side of political world. I am no fan of Corbyn at all but he was democracy elected by his MP's and party members which is the way it is done in this country. 

and he still hasn't send any information or evidence directly to the select committee chairs Hunt and Clark. Its find posting stuff on line but he was asked directly to send it them and the committee and he didnt 

Cummings confirmed at the end of the interview exactly why he is doing all this interview and speaking out cos he wants a comeback into political world whether its starting a new party or within another political party. Time you woke up Den and realises exactly why he is doing this. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

You can't keep switching to different polls when they suited your opinion Ewood. Try again Ewood cos you aren't getting me at all. 

So you don't want to talk about the poll that has the Tories lead shrinking to just 4%, why not? You seem to only mention polls when they suit your opinion. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 minutes ago, 47er said:

That's not a reason for opposing PR though. The Labour Party would have to fight for votes under a new system but at least it would be a fair system. 

Totally agree. However I think because it would decimate Labour, I don't think you'll get more than a splattering of support from Labour MPs when they're back in power. You've just got to hope the Labour Party gets filled up with people who hate the tories more than they like Labour otherwise I don't think there will be the support to push through PR

 

I would love to one day be able to vote for a party that closely matches my views rather than voting for main party I hate the least

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, jim mk2 said:

It’s been another bad week for Johnson

The Cummings interview showed a prime minister out of his depth and incapable of governing. The result has been a one of the worst Covid death outcomes in the world and worst economic hits of any leading developed nation 

The vaccine “bounce” is over as the Delta variant takes hold and the next wave develops. The world is watching aghast as Tory-led England embarks on a huge herd immunity  experiment in which only the strongest and fittest and the luckiest will not be affected. Another lockdown by the autumn is possible. 
 

The picture is building of an embattled and increasingly neurotic prime minister isolated in his Downing Street bunker with only his 3rd (or is it  4th or 5th?) wife for support. Ministers are having to be dragged out daily to defend policy gaffes. 

An isolated prime minister who was already despised by sections of his own party isn’t going to last. Alexander de Pfeiffel Boris Johnson won’t be around to torture the nation much longer. It can’t come soon enough

Bad week for Johnson? really? 

The Cummings interview was bad for Cummings and not the government or the Conservative Party. 

You would love another lockdown Jim so you can come on here and tell us all how you right and you would lock us up again. So much for our freedom and ability to make our own choices. 

The PM isn't in a Downing Street bunker but he is at Chequers actually. He has held meetings with Lord Frost over the Northern Ireland Protocol

40 minutes ago, jim mk2 said:

Watching the Cummings interview again I don't think he's as clever as he thinks he is.  Whilst in his governmental role, he developed an over-inflated sense of his own genius, largely because he thought he was the cleverest person in the room.

 

For once, me and you agree on something in the political world. 

Also agree that Cummings should never been allow into any main stream party in our politics

1 hour ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

You and den are amongst the worst of all posters on here for being so readily eager to throw this “I told you so” around. You appear very desperate to always be right. If I took note of all the predictions and arguments you two have said over the years I’ve been posting on here I would wager we’d all be about right or wrong in the same measure. Not that you would agree to that. 
 

I agree with you Dreams that all Den is after time after time is to prove right then he can come on here and tell us all how he was right and other posters were right. You have already seen this over the past 48 hours about the Cummings interview. Same with Brexit and then the conronavirus pandemic where he has acted like he is sciencific expert and the way he knew it all and people like Sir Patrick Vallance, Chris Whitty and Jonathon Van Tam were wrong. You only have to listen to JVT for a number of minutes that he is talking such sense and honest but doesn't act clever or know it all. Maybe Den should take note

21 minutes ago, den said:

Good link. Fair enough they stopped all testing within the community.  That lead to 40,000 deaths in care homes. The argument at the time was that there were still tests available for community testing but it was a policy decision to stop it.

They were around 2,000 test per day back in March so where were all these tests available for community testing?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

26 minutes ago, 47er said:

That was a number of people Gav. And it clearly was government policy at the outset till the scientists convinced them otherwise--ie when they understood the implications more clearly.

"Let the bodies pile up'.

If it was government policy Sage would have known about it, public health teams across the country would have know about it as they've be responsible for enacting it and we'd have had no lock downs!

I remember Yvette Copper on question time or at the select committee being dressed down by Sage on this very point, she dropped the herd immunity line after that because it was nonsense. 

I'm not denying it was discussed, but it was never policy.

Now about that progressive alliance....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, Ewood Ace said:

So you don't want to talk about the poll that has the Tories lead shrinking to just 4%, why not? You seem to only mention polls when they suit your opinion. 

No Ewood I tend to stick to one poll and the most actually one. 

Instead of just looking at the top result look through the data and what people say

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

Do I know if “herd immunity” was a policy they followed? Nope. It didn’t appear to be with a lockdown. I genuinely can’t remember my posts back then but given there was a 2 month full lockdown, and given they had daily briefings about it not being, I will assume I didn’t think they had herd immunity as a policy.

Herd Immunity was the policy up until the first lockdown, Vallance talked in interview's that herd immunity was what they were going for. That's why despite what we could see happening in mainland Europe with the virus running wild and countries locking down, we were the only country to host a Champions League game in front of a crowd and had hundreds of thousands of people gathered at The Cheltenham Festival. It's because of the government following Herd Immunity that we were so late to lockdown and it seems that it was only the Imperial College Report that made them abandon the herd immunity strategy. 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

20 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

You can't keep switching to different polls when they suited your opinion Ewood. 

And there was me thinking you didn't have a sense of humour

Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 minutes ago, Gav said:

f it was government policy Sage would have known about it, public health teams across the country would have know about it as they've be responsible for enacting it and we'd have had no lock downs!

Utter rubbish Gav! Lockdown was delayed because government policy was for herd immunity. My last word on this!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

26 minutes ago, RoverDom said:
46 minutes ago, 47er said:

 

Totally agree. However I think because it would decimate Labour,

I don't agree with that but I still support the proposition. I'm a democrat, I'm not just interested in my party winning.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

35 minutes ago, 47er said:

Once again for the umpteenth time, I haven't changed my feelings about Cummings at all. He's a little shit and it would have been better for Britain had he never been born. Like Johnson.

He's a proven liar and I would never take his word unless he produced the evidence.

He has, you just don't want to know. Like the Tory spokesman who've been summoned up in the last day or two you just make a general attack on Cummings. No-one from the Tory party ever addresses the texts and says they never existed, not even Johnson. He wrote what he wrote and he can't unwrite it. 

He just hopes everyone will forget in time.

He hasn’t though 

It isn’t a general attack on Cummings but on his motives 47er. You can’t listen to what he says in isolation and not consider his character. I’m certain that whenever, say, Pritti Patel says something you first consider her character and history before you judge what she says? 
 

I think what Cummings is saying now is what people want to hear. But until someone like Vallance or Whitty comes out and categorically state the government went against their wishes - because remember, it is them supposedly advising the government - then I’m afraid I won’t listen to Uncle Dom 

And if it does end up being concluded herd immunity was the policy, or that sage did stop all testing unnecessary, then in my eyes the scientific advisors of SAGE have to answer to the questions raised. Of course the MPs will suffer the political consequences but providing they “followed the science” (or in this case scientists advice) then they have fulfilled their role

That is how I see it and genuinely no amount of texts between BJ and DC will change that because ultimately the only thing that matters is what made policy, if it made policy in a timely fashion and if the advice of SAGE was followed. They will have their chance to confirm or deny that 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, 47er said:

I don't agree with that but I still support the proposition. I'm a democrat, I'm not just interested in my party winning.

I was talking more the MPs in the party rather than supporters / members. Totally feasible that electoral reform would be popular amongst the wider party 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

 

It isn’t a general attack on Cummings but on his motives 47er.

His motivation is clearly to bring Johnson down out of revenge. Has anyone ever disputed that? There are two characters here, both as despicable as the other.

That doesn't mean we should ignore what Cummings has revealed, Johnson said and what he wrote and what he has never denied.

On herd immunity I've no more to say, you don't want to believe it, the evidence is clear.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.