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Just now, 47er said:

His motivation is clearly to bring Johnson down out of revenge. Has anyone ever disputed that? There are two characters here, both as despicable as the other.

That doesn't mean we should ignore what Cummings has revealed, Johnson said and what he wrote and what he has never denied.

On herd immunity I've no more to say, you don't want to believe it, the evidence is clear.

It is not that I don't want to believe it at all and tbh it is getting very tiresome constantly being accused of bollocks like that. Why do I care? It doesn't affect me in any way shape or form

It is that the people I trust more (SAGE) are denying it was ever genuine policy

When they come out and discuss in an honest and open way, without any motive of revenge, I will listen

And they will, such is the transparency of Western Scientific circles, I have full confidence that over the future months and years to come, they will 'unpack' and review all aspects of the pandemic policy to better understand how to manage another

Forgive me for waiting until that moment and not jumping the gun

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PMQ’s.

Starmer… on 26th May I asked PM if he’d ever used the words “covid is only killing 80 year olds”. On that day the PM pointedly didn’t deny using them and now we have the proof that he did. We’ve all seen the PM’s text messages saying that the median ages for covid fatalities is 82. That’s above life expectancy. Get covid and live longer.”

That text as we all know is from Cummings phone and is part of his case against Johnson not wanting to lockdown and his real belief is that it should be allowed to run through communities. 

Again, Johnson didn’t deny it.  He can’t because it’s in black and white. Yet Cummings is the liar here?

 

Edited by den
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30 minutes ago, 47er said:

Utter rubbish Gav! Lockdown was delayed because government policy was for herd immunity. My last word on this!

Tripe.

https://www.politico.eu/article/herd-immunity-was-never-uk-coronavirus-strategy-chief-scientific-adviser-says/

LONDON — The British government’s Chief Scientific Adviser Patrick Vallance has apologized for not being clear when he previously presented the concept of “herd immunity” as a potential way out of the coronavirus pandemic, saying he didn’t mean that was the government’s plan.

Speaking to MPs on the House of Commons health committee, Vallance stressed Tuesday that when he presented this concept at a press conference in mid-March, he did not mean that the U.K. should try to get immunity through this route. He reiterated that the strategy has always been trying to suppress the peak and keep it below the level at which the National Health Service can cope.

“I should be clear about what I was trying to say, and if I didn’t say this clearly enough then I apologize,” he said. “What I was trying to say was that, in the absence of a therapeutic, the way in which you can stop a community becoming susceptible to this is through immunity and immunity can be obtained by vaccination, or it can be obtained by people who have the infection.”

 

 

Edited by Gav
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19 minutes ago, 47er said:

On herd immunity I've no more to say, you don't want to believe it, the evidence is clear.

Byline Times an excellent source of non-partisan news and views

Confirms your stance

https://bylinetimes.com/2021/05/26/dominic-cummings-incriminates-the-government-and-himself-on-the-herd-immunity-catastrophe/

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19 minutes ago, Gav said:

Tripe.

https://www.politico.eu/article/herd-immunity-was-never-uk-coronavirus-strategy-chief-scientific-adviser-says/

LONDON — The British government’s Chief Scientific Adviser Patrick Vallance has apologized for not being clear when he previously presented the concept of “herd immunity” as a potential way out of the coronavirus pandemic, saying he didn’t mean that was the government’s plan.

Speaking to MPs on the House of Commons health committee, Vallance stressed Tuesday that when he presented this concept at a press conference in mid-March, he did not mean that the U.K. should try to get immunity through this route. He reiterated that the strategy has always been trying to suppress the peak and keep it below the level at which the National Health Service can cope.

“I should be clear about what I was trying to say, and if I didn’t say this clearly enough then I apologize,” he said. “What I was trying to say was that, in the absence of a therapeutic, the way in which you can stop a community becoming susceptible to this is through immunity and immunity can be obtained by vaccination, or it can be obtained by people who have the infection.”

 

 

Two months after he said herd immunity was what they were going for. Which by this time had been seen to be a dismal failure as Covid was rampant in the country. Do you you not think that by this time he may have been covering his own back?

Vallance is an intelligent man and he is quite clear here in two separate interviews about herd immunity.

UK needs to get COVID-19 for 'herd immunity' - YouTube

 

Edited by Ewood Ace
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3 minutes ago, RoverDom said:

If sage had adopted such an approach would it not be in sage minutes? 

It was in the Guardian minutes and they're never wrong Dom 😃

You're not thee 'Dom' are you? Friend of the left? Bastion for truth and justice? 

Edited by Gav
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22 minutes ago, Gav said:

ONDON — The British government’s Chief Scientific Adviser Patrick Vallance has apologized for not being clear when he previously presented the concept of “herd immunity” as a potential way out of the coronavirus pandemic, saying he didn’t mean that was the government’s plan.

 

Someone had a good talk to him then!

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56 minutes ago, jim mk2 said:

 

And there was me thinking you didn't have a sense of humour

I'm just pleased you reply to me shame you won't to my questions I have asked you in past but its no surprise why you won't discuss your Labour party or Starmer leadership

28 minutes ago, den said:

PMQ’s.

Starmer… on 26th May I asked PM if he’d ever used the words “covid is only killing 80 year olds”. On that day the PM pointedly didn’t deny using them and now we have the proof that he did. We’ve all seen the PM’s text messages saying that the median ages for covid fatalities is 82. That’s above life expectancy. Get covid and live longer.”

That text as we all know is from Cummings phone and is part of his case against Johnson not wanting to lockdown and his real belief is that it should be allowed to run through communities. 

Again, Johnson didn’t deny it.  He can’t because it’s in black and white. Yet Cummings is the liar here?

 

yet again you have only see and heard what Cummings wants you to know and you are falling for what he wants you to which is about his seeking redemption and getting back into front line politics. 

Did Cummings posted the entire conservation between himself and Johnson? Has he? 

Den, Its very clear what you are after which is that you were proven right on this, pandemic and Brexit. 

21 minutes ago, Gav said:

Tripe.

https://www.politico.eu/article/herd-immunity-was-never-uk-coronavirus-strategy-chief-scientific-adviser-says/

LONDON — The British government’s Chief Scientific Adviser Patrick Vallance has apologized for not being clear when he previously presented the concept of “herd immunity” as a potential way out of the coronavirus pandemic, saying he didn’t mean that was the government’s plan.

Speaking to MPs on the House of Commons health committee, Vallance stressed Tuesday that when he presented this concept at a press conference in mid-March, he did not mean that the U.K. should try to get immunity through this route. He reiterated that the strategy has always been trying to suppress the peak and keep it below the level at which the National Health Service can cope.

“I should be clear about what I was trying to say, and if I didn’t say this clearly enough then I apologize,” he said. “What I was trying to say was that, in the absence of a therapeutic, the way in which you can stop a community becoming susceptible to this is through immunity and immunity can be obtained by vaccination, or it can be obtained by people who have the infection.”

 

 

Gav, You have posted this article about what Sir Patrick Vallance said and I posted this article twice in the past. Some people only want to read and see what they want to on here

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  • Backroom

Dastardly Dom the puppet master has got you all doing a merry old dance. 

Can't argue the guy ain't a master manipulator. 

Tbh I think you are arguing over the wrong thing.

You're all focusing on the start of this March 2020. 

Just as a reminder of the timeline then, the first official UK death was 2nd March. Exactly 2 weeks later on the 16th March we were in full on lockdown. 

Wasn't much wiggle room, and yes, we got caught with our pants down.

But I believe DC is focusing more on the Winter wave (Oct/Nov) and saying BJ was wanting to let it rip then. And that was after how many 10's of thousands of deaths?

He was still focusing on the economy then and claiming it was only the old people that were at risk. He was massively wrong as he hadn't factored in the variants like Kent and Delta that were gamechangers. 

Just saying, the 2 scenarios are over 6 months apart and are totally different sets of circumstances. They can't be blended into one.

And from what I've seen and read it is the second one DC is blowing the whistle on. He even admitted that was one of the main reasons for their breakup. He said something like: "And Boris thought I blamed him for deaths in that wave......and I did!"

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13 minutes ago, Silas said:

Tbh I think you are arguing over the wrong thing.

You're all focusing on the start of this March 2020. 

Just as a reminder of the timeline then, the first official UK death was 2nd March. Exactly 2 weeks later on the 16th March we were in full on lockdown. 

Wasn't much wiggle room, and yes, we got caught with our pants down.

One only had to look at mainland Europe to see what was coming, it was hardly a surprise.

17 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

I'm just pleased you reply to me shame you won't to my questions I have asked you in past but its no surprise why you won't discuss your Labour party or Starmer leadership

Why won't you answer my question about 'PM' Johnson and the Tories?

14 hours ago, Ewood Ace said:

Why do you think that the Tories lead is shrinking? Are people starting to have had enough of 'PM' Johnson.

 

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15 minutes ago, Silas said:

 

 

But I believe DC is focusing more on the Winter wave (Oct/Nov) and saying BJ was wanting to let it rip then. And that was after how many 10's of thousands of deaths?

He was still focusing on the economy then and claiming it was only the old people that were at risk. He was massively wrong as he hadn't factored in the variants like Kent and Delta that were gamechangers. 

Just saying, the 2 scenarios are over 6 months apart and are totally different sets of circumstances. They can't be blended into one.

 

https://bylinetimes.com/2021/05/26/dominic-cummings-incriminates-the-government-and-himself-on-the-herd-immunity-catastrophe/

Perhaps the most damning revelation is Cummings’ confirmation that the Government – including the Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (SAGE) – had at the outset adopted a ‘herd immunity by natural infection’ plan, which set the UK up for the catastrophic death toll that would later unfold over two Coronavirus waves and two lockdowns. 

Cummings admitted that, as the pandemic was beginning, he, the Prime Minister and the Government were relaxed about the crisis. Little was done to prepare, to the point that Johnson went on holiday for two weeks in February (contrary to Johnson’s own claims). Cummings admits, however, his own responsibility, noting that he should have “hit the panic button” more than he did, and that he had neglected to bother looking at the existing pandemic plan. 

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15 minutes ago, Silas said:

Dastardly Dom the puppet master has got you all doing a merry old dance. 

Can't argue the guy ain't a master manipulator. 

Tbh I think you are arguing over the wrong thing.

You're all focusing on the start of this March 2020. 

Just as a reminder of the timeline then, the first official UK death was 2nd March. Exactly 2 weeks later on the 16th March we were in full on lockdown. 

Wasn't much wiggle room, and yes, we got caught with our pants down.

But I believe DC is focusing more on the Winter wave (Oct/Nov) and saying BJ was wanting to let it rip then. And that was after how many 10's of thousands of deaths?

He was still focusing on the economy then and claiming it was only the old people that were at risk. He was massively wrong as he hadn't factored in the variants like Kent and Delta that were gamechangers. 

Just saying, the 2 scenarios are over 6 months apart and are totally different sets of circumstances. They can't be blended into one.

And from what I've seen and read it is the second one DC is blowing the whistle on. He even admitted that was one of the main reasons for their breakup. He said something like: "And Boris thought I blamed him for deaths in that wave......and I did!"

He was just telling a lot of home truths about Johnsons inability to manage the pandemic and the inherent belief that it was nothing to worry about affecting his judgement and resulting in late lockdowns and the highest number of deaths in Europe.

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19 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

I'm just pleased you reply to me shame you won't to my questions I have asked you in past but its no surprise why you won't discuss your Labour party or Starmer leadership

This is schoolyard stuff but until you acknowledge that Johnson is a liar and is unfit to lead what has become a corrupt and incompetent government (as has been pointed out many times) there can't be a conversation

About anything 

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  • Backroom
32 minutes ago, den said:

He was just telling a lot of home truths.....

You've used the word "truth" in connection to Dominic Cummings about half a dozen times these last few days.

So.....just a little reminder for you:

On 01/06/2020 at 09:49, den said:

......inspired by the liars that are Boris Johnson and Dominic Cummings.

they don’t fool me Chaddy.

😉😜

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The Commons Standards Committee has ruled that 5 Tory MPs breached the code of conduct by trying to influence a judge in the trial of Charlie Elphick, including especially Natalie Elphicke who had the nerve to tell Marcus Rashford how to live his life.

Five Tory MPs breached code of conduct by trying to influence judge in Charlie Elphicke sex assault trial, committee rules | Politics News | Sky News

 

Edited by Ewood Ace
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  • Moderation Lead
10 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Kier Starmer is forced to self isolating for 10 days now after one of his children tests positive. Should he have been in the commons today? 

https://mol.im/a/9810597

LOL. Meanwhile, when Johnson and Sunak tested positive, they weren’t even going to isolate at all….

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2 hours ago, Ewood Ace said:

 

Why won't you answer my question about 'PM' Johnson and the Tories?

I answered your question Ewood

2 hours ago, jim mk2 said:

This is schoolyard stuff but until you acknowledge that Johnson is a liar and is unfit to lead what has become a corrupt and incompetent government (as has been pointed out many times) there can't be a conversation

About anything 

No Jim it's AIN'T schoolyard staff at all. But you still refused to answered all question on your beloved Labour Party and Starmer. Living his fantasy land again

NO chance Jim. 

1 hour ago, Dreyski said:

I wonder who would be responsible for that?

all main street oarties

1 hour ago, K-Hod said:

LOL. Meanwhile, when Johnson and Sunak tested positive, they weren’t even going to isolate at all….

But they did self lsolated for 10 days despite former PM Tony Blair saying he shouldn't need to

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2 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

I answered your question Ewood

No you didn't you dismissed and said 'No Ewood I tend to stick to one poll' (presumably the one that gives the Tories the biggest lead) 'and the most actually one' (whatever that means).

 

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51 minutes ago, Ewood Ace said:

No you didn't you dismissed and said 'No Ewood I tend to stick to one poll' (presumably the one that gives the Tories the biggest lead) 'and the most actually one' (whatever that means).

 

The question was answered but as per usual you didn't like the answer. No surprise there. 

Why do you keep switching between different polls which shows Conservative party and Johnson worst then the previous week. Look deeper into the polling info like number of people polled, area polled from, age, who the voting for in the last election, social group, etc. 

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