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3 hours ago, philipl said:

Malta has hit over 1,000 tests a day.

Germany is doing over 500,000 tests a day.

Now. 

100,000 per day at the end of April is a pathetic target which is wholly inadequate for the job needed.

If Britain wants to come out of lock down safely, the target should be 10 million tests a day.

I am not disagreeing but at this point mass testing isn't much benefit imo. It's a short term complete waste of resource. Operational testing for front line is all that is needed.

The only test that matters and gives us a medium to long term benefit to the population, is the antibody test... which doesn't exist yet. i.e. Germany, Malta & the UK will all need to see who had it before we can consider "normality".

I hope my government are focussing and investing resources (which ultimately I will have to pay for) on something which will give value for money.

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11 hours ago, Silas said:

 

I think you are wrong. 

He will definitely hit his target.

 He wouldn't have said it otherwise. It's politician playbook page 1 - set a target that is measurable and achievable,  and then when you hit it, you can say: "See, I did what I said I would!"

Glossing over the fact that it would still be about a month too late. 

I mean, he's left himself so much wiggle room. "By the end of April.." Basically leaves him with 2.5 weeks to plan, build,  ramp things up in advance. And then, as long as he does 100k on 30th April, the box is ticked. (Might have only done 30k on the 28th) 

 

This article from BBC on it is decent:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/health-52234061

 

Gotta say, this bit surprised me a bit:

 

More significant may be higher health spending:

  • Germany spent €4,271 (£3,744) per person on healthcare (11.1% of gross domestic product - the value of goods and services produced in the country) in 2016
  • The UK spent €3,566 per person on healthcare (9.7% of GDP) in 2016
  • The EU average is 9.9% of GDP

Higher health spend doesn't always result in better health outcomes. The US vastly outspends every country in the world on health per capita yet has atrocious rates of child mortality and early death due to the inequality and inefficiency in the system. 

NHS is isn't rated the best health service in the world, but it is viewed as the most efficient. If the Tories had properly funded or we would be up there with Germany in terms of quality.

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11 hours ago, Silas said:

 

I think you are wrong. 

He will definitely hit his target.

 He wouldn't have said it otherwise. It's politician playbook page 1 - set a target that is measurable and achievable,  and then when you hit it, you can say: "See, I did what I said I would!"

Glossing over the fact that it would still be about a month too late. 

I mean, he's left himself so much wiggle room. "By the end of April.." Basically leaves him with 2.5 weeks to plan, build,  ramp things up in advance. And then, as long as he does 100k on 30th April, the box is ticked. (Might have only done 30k on the 28th) 

 

This article from BBC on it is decent:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/health-52234061

 

Gotta say, this bit surprised me a bit:

 

More significant may be higher health spending:

  • Germany spent €4,271 (£3,744) per person on healthcare (11.1% of gross domestic product - the value of goods and services produced in the country) in 2016
  • The UK spent €3,566 per person on healthcare (9.7% of GDP) in 2016
  • The EU average is 9.9% of GDP

Also reading that article Hancock's attributions (or excuse) for UKs inability to scale similar to Germany ring hollow. He cites Germany as having more labs. UK has loads of labs at univerisities, medical facilities and private companies.

The issue was PHE & the government for some reason did not view mass testing as necessary until a couple of weeks ago. That's the fundamental problem. If, like in Germany, Britain committed to mass testing on January we would already be well past 100k tests.

In the post mortem what led to the tragic decision to deprioritise mass testing needs to be thoroughly understood. It was a major major miscalculation.

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19 minutes ago, OldEwoodBlue said:

Current test results are obsolete the day after. Waste of time & money.

Keep people away from each other until a reliable antibody test comes on stream.

Absolutely bang on policy from the government.

Sorry OEB, you are wrong on this issue.

Testing identifies anyone with the virus. Authorities can then take that person off the streets, reducing the transmission rates and potential hospitalisation/death.

They can then try to trace the last contacts that person had and quarantine them.

The very least it does is lessen the burden on the health system.

 

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4 hours ago, philipl said:

The UK locked down too late and didn't have enough testing capacity to determine the scale of the outbreak or isolate cases. This should not be a controversial thing to say.

Government should apologise.

Would disagree that lockdown came too late. I think we can only say that if critical care capacity is breached which I dont think it has? 

Testing they have dropped a bit of a clanger on. Once an antibody test is available, that is their chance to redeem themselves on that front.

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10 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

Well I think since he become PM he has put the NHS has one of his priorities. 

You would. They can't do anything wrong.

The lack of testing and PPE however shows how much of a priority they think the NHS is. 

Of course you will say that is your opinion (because views contrary to yours are opinions and therefore invalid) but the FACT is that friends and family have been risking their lives with limited, substandard and out of date PPE for weeks. 

Given the government has dismissed this as a problem, said there is enough and even lectured the NHS about using supplies carefully - shifting the blame onto the NHS - I'd say they're not really a priority. 

Also any look back over the conservative governments in recent years shows the NHS isn't a priority. From the doctors strike and wages to underfunding, to privatisation a strong NHS is not on the list of Conservative priorities. Again the evidence would support this.

Sorry that's a bit more political than perhaps warranted by this thread- albeit the two are intrinsically linked. Hopefully if any good comes out of this pandemic it's that the public's high regard for the NHS will protect and prevent further cut backs. 

 

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1 hour ago, OldEwoodBlue said:

I am not disagreeing but at this point mass testing isn't much benefit imo. It's a short term complete waste of resource. Operational testing for front line is all that is needed.

 

Would disagree here for a number of reasons. Even if population testing were not beneficial (although keeping those people isolated can only help) there is a huge front line amount of testing needed: NHS, carers, care home staff, supermarket workers, delivery drivers. All could have and pass on the virus before displaying symptoms.  Then consider all the people in their households who need to be tested too. Already we're talking a hell of a lot of tests. 

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Johnson had a lot of work to do trying to restore the NHS to what it should've been after the previous idiots and that scumbag Osborne took an axe to it.  I think he realised that despite what some like to portray although whether he'd have seen it through is another thing. Now though after this and his brush with it he's no excuse not to get it the regular funding it requires i'm sure it'll have struck a chord.

If he has to stick a few pence on National Insurance in the future then so be it as long as it goes where it should. The far left will cry of course but that's par for the course these days. 

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2 minutes ago, RoverDom said:

Would disagree that lockdown came too late. I think we can only say that if critical care capacity is breached which I dont think it has? 

 

No critical Care Capacity wasn't breached at all. We have set up new hospitals around the UK like in Manchester, London, Birmingham, etc. WE have listened to the medical and science advice on this and from listening to them I would expect a lockdown until middle/end of May

We could have vaccine from Oxford university by September. 

 

1 hour ago, OldEwoodBlue said:

I am not disagreeing but at this point mass testing isn't much benefit imo. It's a short term complete waste of resource. Operational testing for front line is all that is needed.

The only test that matters and gives us a medium to long term benefit to the population, is the antibody test... which doesn't exist yet. i.e. Germany, Malta & the UK will all need to see who had it before we can consider "normality".

I hope my government are focussing and investing resources (which ultimately I will have to pay for) on something which will give value for money.

Malta doing a 1,000 test a day is nothing compare to our country given our population total to Malta. 

We are doing more than 10k test per day. Hopefully we will hit 100,000 test by end of the month. I posted a link last night saying we should have the tests ready to meet these targets. 

Have you seen James Farrar's interview on Andrew Marr show this morning? director of welcome trust, saying that medication and vaccine is our only way out of this ultimately. Said that the vaccine from Sarah Gilbert is a professor of Vaccinology at Oxford University. 

9 minutes ago, dave birch said:

Sorry OEB, you are wrong on this issue.

Testing identifies anyone with the virus. Authorities can then take that person off the streets, reducing the transmission rates and potential hospitalisation/death.

They can then try to trace the last contacts that person had and quarantine them.

The very least it does is lessen the burden on the health system.

 

The majority of people aren't on the streets anyway. its very quiet on the streets. majority of people are following the government's advice

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4 minutes ago, tomphil said:

Johnson had a lot of work to do trying to restore the NHS to what it should've been after the previous idiots and that scumbag Osborne took an axe to it.  I think he realised that despite what some like to portray although whether he'd have seen it through is another thing. Now though after this and his brush with it he's no excuse not to get it the regular funding it requires i'm sure it'll have struck a chord.

If he has to stick a few pence on National Insurance in the future then so be it as long as it goes where it should. The far left will cry of course but that's par for the course these days. 

Maybe have a NHS tax that shows how much of your taxes/national insurance from your wages going to the NHS. 

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8 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

The majority of people aren't on the streets anyway. its very quiet on the streets. majority of people are following the government's advice

Chaddy, the stats are saying that there's still a big increase in people being infected, where's that coming from?

If you know someone is infected, it's a start to containment. If you don't know where to look you are travelling blind.

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16 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

The majority of people aren't on the streets anyway. its very quiet on the streets. majority of people are following the government's advice

Disagree. As in whilst the majority are there is a seizable minority who aren't doing so. A minority big enough to cause problems.

Evidence backing up this:

East Leeds - confirmed by numerous witnesses that people are still not social distancing. 

The link I posted on Greater Manchester police disrupting a ton of parties/social gatherings. 

The stories coming out about footballers/footballers training. 

Maybe there is a majority but still enough people aren't following the rules as to cause continued spread. 

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35 minutes ago, Blue blood said:

You would. They can't do anything wrong.

The lack of testing and PPE however shows how much of a priority they think the NHS is. 

Of course you will say that is your opinion (because views contrary to yours are opinions and therefore invalid) but the FACT is that friends and family have been risking their lives with limited, substandard and out of date PPE for weeks. 

Given the government has dismissed this as a problem, said there is enough and even lectured the NHS about using supplies carefully - shifting the blame onto the NHS - I'd say they're not really a priority. 

Also any look back over the conservative governments in recent years shows the NHS isn't a priority. From the doctors strike and wages to underfunding, to privatisation a strong NHS is not on the list of Conservative priorities. Again the evidence would support this.

Sorry that's a bit more political than perhaps warranted by this thread- albeit the two are intrinsically linked. Hopefully if any good comes out of this pandemic it's that the public's high regard for the NHS will protect and prevent further cut backs. 

 

hasn't he promise 40 new and rebuilt Hospitals when he become PM? 

When I went for hospital appointment at Blackburn Hospital Staff were wearing the PPE. I have family who is work for East Lancashire hospitals. I don't know if you watched the BBC News this morning were they interviewed 2 Nurses from NHS Lanarkshire and was asked about PPE and they said that they have right amount of PPE and have from day 1. 

Didn't Labour used the private medical companies to get waiting times down in the late 90's and 2000's? Yes they did. That's how Blair and Brown got the waiting times down. 

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1213790/labour-news-tony-blair-privatise-nhs-boris-johnson-general-election-jeremy-corbyn-spt

From the link above

"Mr Blair said in 2006: “By 2008 we could have as much as 40 percent of acute operations done in the private sector being done under the NHS banner.”

 

Don't forget Blair and Brown Introducing Foundation trust status for hospitals and what it caused at Mid Staffs Hospital. 

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2013/feb/06/mid-staffs-hospital-scandal-guide

 

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Just now, chaddyrovers said:

hasn't he promise 40 new and rebuilt Hospitals when he become PM? 

When I went for hospital appointment at Blackburn Hospital Staff were wearing the PPE. I have family who is work for East Lancashire hospitals. I don't know if you watched the BBC News this morning were they interviewed 2 Nurses from NHS Lanarkshire and was asked about PPE and they said that they have right amount of PPE and have from day 1. 

Didn't Labour used the private medical companies to get waiting times down in the late 90's and 2000's? Yes they did. That's how Blair and Brown got the waiting times down. 

 

 

When will you realise that promises are one thing, delivering is another?----as Hancock is showing.

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27 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

No critical Care Capacity wasn't breached at all. We have set up new hospitals around the UK like in Manchester, London, Birmingham, etc. WE have listened to the medical and science advice on this and from listening to them I would expect a lockdown until middle/end of May

We could have vaccine from Oxford university by September. 

 

1) Medical and scientific opinion differs markedly---the Government went the wrong way early on.

2) Most experts I've read say that a vaccine is at least a year away before it could be publicly available. And that's the optimistic ones.

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17 minutes ago, Blue blood said:

Disagree. As in whilst the majority are there is a seizable minority who aren't doing so. A minority big enough to cause problems.

Evidence backing up this:

East Leeds - confirmed by numerous witnesses that people are still not social distancing. 

The link I posted on Greater Manchester police disrupting a ton of parties/social gatherings. 

The stories coming out about footballers/footballers training. 

Maybe there is a majority but still enough people aren't following the rules as to cause continued spread. 

What is sizeable minority?

I went for a walk yesterday afternoon for 30 mins and barely anyone was out. Our streets have no one on them. Sky News went to 3 different parks within the birmingham area. A few people out exercising but that's was it. The vast majority are listening and doing the right thing. You are never going to get 100% people listening but I would say 95% of people are. 

Alot of footballers are training on their own. So it's like their hour of exercise which is allow. 

 

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7 minutes ago, Yoogo said:

My understanding of vaccines is that they are preventative-only, and not a cure. I might be completely wrong about that, but perhaps somebody more-enlightened can verify! So I would imagine that there will never actually be a cure for this thing, in the same way that the flu doesn't have one (?). My take on that is that a vaccine won't do anything for those already infected, and so it wouldn't necessarily mean that everybody is out of the woods, and delivering the vaccine to the population would be a colossal task.

Ick. It's a mountain in reality. The only way to tackle a mountain is to take it step-by-step and stop looking at the top!

Here is article on the vaccine from Sarah Gilbert and Oxford university 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/coronavirus-vaccine-september-oxford-professor-sarah-gilbert-trials-a9460481.html

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33 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Malta doing a 1,000 test a day is nothing compare to our country given our population total to Malta. 

We are doing more than 10k test per day.

Eh? Population of Malta is under 450000!

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Apologists for this lamentable government might want to comment on the latest news on sky from the medical experts who they love quoting who are now saying Britain is on course to be the worst affected country in Europe.

And after her despicable comment s yesterday perhaps they might like to explain why Cruella de Patel is still in a job that she was never qualified for in the first place

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9 hours ago, jim mk2 said:

 

Patel is a feeble excuse for a secretary of state. Too aware of her own failings to even risk an appearance before a select committee, she is wheeled out on the quiet Saturday evening run and even makes a hash of that.

Doctors and nurses don’t “feel” there is a PPE supply problem - it’s a fact. It’s a pandemic- so yes the stuff will be in heavy demand. The government has got to do better on supply. A proper apology rather than this mealy mouthed rubbish is in order.

https://www.ft.com/content/77be85ed-aaa6-44be-8fb4-c268f064faf7

That was the " apology " of a woman who has never had to make an apology in her life before, that was obvious. In fact it was a non apology. She'll be the first to go in the next re-shuffle. She's only in that post because she's one of Johnson's nodding dogs. That was OK as long as things were quiet but now she's got a job to do she's useless.

It's imperative the Parliament is re-called in whatever fashion they can manage. This lot need holding to account, and soon.

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36 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

hasn't he promise 40 new and rebuilt Hospitals when he become PM? 

When I went for hospital appointment at Blackburn Hospital Staff were wearing the PPE.

The right type of PPE? As in complying with WHO guidelines and in date. I very much doubt that from the evidence I have heard and seen (photographically) from a number of sources. From the numerous complaints on social media and in the news from NHS staff I doubt it highly. 

36 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

 

I have family who is work for East Lancashire hospitals. I don't know if you watched the BBC News this morning were they interviewed 2 Nurses from NHS Lanarkshire and was asked about PPE and they said that they have right amount of PPE and have from day 1. 

 

Well that may be an isolated incident as, like.i said above, most NHS staff would say they haven't. One might say that's a bit of propoganda...

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11 minutes ago, jim mk2 said:

Apologists for this lamentable government might want to comment on the latest news on sky from the medical experts who they love quoting who are now saying Britain is on course to be the worst affected country in Europe.

And after her despicable comment s yesterday perhaps they might like to explain why Cruella de Patel is still in a job that she was never qualified for in the first place

Nobody to sack her?

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