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1 minute ago, philipl said:

Joggers generate a far bigger aura of aerosols than walkers and Belgian and Dutch studies have recommended doubling the social distancing behind people running.

 

FAKE NEWS philipl - our public health are not and have never been working on a separate social distancing rule for joggers like you claimed.

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4 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

It's hardly surprising Phillip given the evidence we see from NHS staff every evening on our TV screens. For students of history there are a lot of parallels with this PPE crisis and the " Shell Shortage " crisis of the early years of WW 1. That eventually brought down the Liberal government of the day and led to the formation of a Coalition government.

If there really is no immunity to this virus the whole World is in very big trouble.

So is there a shelf storage life for polycarbante visors, probably 25years as for PPE gloves, face masks that are thrown away after one use, mm i don't think so, Blaming the government is always the easy option, what about the NHS managers who are responsible for ordering PPE, all NHS trusts undertake emergency training in such scenarios as a potential pandemic. Suddenly these managers who are on mega money have disappeared, every man and his dog wants to blame the current government, Nurses are now getting fed up of all the negative TV coverage, no mention of the many people surviving this horrible virus, and as a personel note no mention to the thousands of home care workers who daily put themselves at risk looking after the old and infirm, and i did mention some three weeks ago about the Laboratory in Wuhan, it is now being reported they were actively looking at viruses from bats, time to hold china to account. 

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30 minutes ago, philipl said:

That is utterly unfair and uncalled for.

Apologise.

It is a hard fact that the British are dying of covid 19 at 5 times the rate Germans are and 20 times the rate people in Malta are.

It is a tragedy and a political failure of monumental proportions.

No we are not. 
 

When it suits you on one post you hammer the govt for the lack of testing, which has lead to the data being rather skewed. In fact almost all major news outlets are now putting the caveat of how data may be a misrepresentation due to each governments variations in testing. Our critical care capacity hasn’t been breached yet, it is simply that we have far more infected than Malta. 
 

It has also come out that it is hitting those that live in ‘overcrowded’ areas of the U.K. disproportions. I can’t speak for Malta but I assume it doesn’t have the population density that parts of the U.K. does, so it makes perfect sense that this virus is going to be both more present and more severe in this country. 
 

You are very good at sensationalism. It was actually you who posted the piece of research about how more densely populated nations are being hit harder despite even having more draconian measures in some cases. Some of the reasons the U.K. is suffering so much is geography and over crowding, that much is a given. 

Edited by Dreams of 1995
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1 minute ago, EgyptianPete said:

So is there a shelf storage life for polycarbante visors, probably 25years as for PPE gloves, face masks that are thrown away after one use, mm i don't think so, Blaming the government is always the easy option, what about the NHS managers who are responsible for ordering PPE, all NHS trusts undertake emergency training in such scenarios as a potential pandemic. Suddenly these managers who are on mega money have disappeared, every man and his dog wants to blame the current government, Nurses are now getting fed up of all the negative TV coverage, no mention of the many people surviving this horrible virus, and as a personel note no mention to the thousands of home care workers who daily put themselves at risk looking after the old and infirm, and i did mention some three weeks ago about the Laboratory in Wuhan, it is now being reported they were actively looking at viruses from bats, time to hold china to account. 

They're all happy to take whatever credit  is going when things are going according to plan. Harry Trueman ( former US President ) had a sign on his desk. It read " The Buck Stops Here ! " Johnson needs to get a few made and hand them out around this cabinet of incompetents.

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Just now, Dreams of 1995 said:

No we are not. 
 

When it suits you on one post you hammer the govt for the lack of testing, which has lead to the data being rather skewed. In fact almost all major news outlets are now putting the caveat of how data may be a misrepresentation due to each governments variations in testing. Our critical care capacity hasn’t been breached yet, it is simply that we have far more infected than Malta. 
 

It has also come out that it is hitting those that live in ‘overcrowded’ areas of the U.K. disproportions. I can’t speak for Malta but I assume it doesn’t have the population density that parts of the U.K. does, so it makes perfect sense that this virus is going to be both more present and more severe in this country. 
 

You are very good at sensationalism. It was actually you who posted the piece of research about how more densely populated nations are being hit harder despite even having more draconian measures in some cases. Some of the reasons the U.K. is suffering so much is geography and over crowding, that much is a given. 

Have you ever been to Malta ? !

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6 minutes ago, EgyptianPete said:

So is there a shelf storage life for polycarbante visors, probably 25years as for PPE gloves, face masks that are thrown away after one use, mm i don't think so, Blaming the government is always the easy option, what about the NHS managers who are responsible for ordering PPE, all NHS trusts undertake emergency training in such scenarios as a potential pandemic. Suddenly these managers who are on mega money have disappeared, every man and his dog wants to blame the current government, Nurses are now getting fed up of all the negative TV coverage, no mention of the many people surviving this horrible virus, and as a personel note no mention to the thousands of home care workers who daily put themselves at risk looking after the old and infirm, and i did mention some three weeks ago about the Laboratory in Wuhan, it is now being reported they were actively looking at viruses from bats, time to hold china to account. 

Disagree with the first two thirds of the post. When you keep slashing budgets and the like, its a tad hard for the NHS to prepare. Also as I posted a few days ago there are a HUGE amount of things the government could have done better on, so yeah, they are to blame.   

Not sure Nurses etc. are sick of the negative press. I think they just want adequate protection!

You are right though about the care workers. It's a real concern. If the NHS have had it rough then care firms have had it much, much worse, as they don't have anywhere near the levels of supplies of PPE needed. This is undermining our other attempts to contain the virus, and is risking both the carers and patients themselves. 

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1 minute ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

Have you ever been to Malta ? !

Yes i have been to Malta, lovely place, btw i see you are totally blaming the gov, you missed my point, all countries are basing data on the Chinese reporting, which is now being found to be a lie upon lie upon lie, therefore how can you accurately work on data which is basically flawed due to china's miss information, along with the WHO who seem to be in chinas back pocket.

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48 minutes ago, Gav said:

You absolutely get the feeling that several posters on this very site would be happy to see the death rate increase to score a point or two, it actually makes me sick to post this but it’s quite clear.

There are no winners in this current crisis, only losers, thousands of families have lost loved ones yet we have a small faceless minority rubbing their hands at the numbers increasing, absolutely disgusting. 

Nobody is doing that Gav. Its just that some, and you appear to be one of them, confuse criticism of the government with lack of patriotism.

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3 minutes ago, Blue blood said:

Disagree with the first two thirds of the post. When you keep slashing budgets and the like, its a tad hard for the NHS to prepare. Also as I posted a few days ago there are a HUGE amount of things the government could have done better on, so yeah, they are to blame.   

Not sure Nurses etc. are sick of the negative press. I think they just want adequate protection!

You are right though about the care workers. It's a real concern. If the NHS have had it rough then care firms have had it much, much worse, as they don't have anywhere near the levels of supplies of PPE needed. This is undermining our other attempts to contain the virus, and is risking both the carers and patients themselves. 

Well you are okay to disagree i have my opinion you have yours, i was expecting the slashing of budgets to raise it's head, It isn't hard for the NHS to prepare if the managers actually do their jobs, but lets not dwell on that eh, and i find it absolutely pathetic that theres going to be a TV documentary with Grant Mitchel be able to be in a ICU  ward with TV cameras, but the general public cant sit with their dying mum, dad or relative, a national disgrace.

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8 minutes ago, philipl said:

These are the current death rates:

Malta 1 per 167,000

Germany 1 per 33,000

UK 1 per 6,785 head of population.

Now you either accept official statistics or you don't.

You are a hypocrite. To quote you from a post only 46 minutes ago: "Accuracy rate of current tests is not higher than 70%."

So that would mean that the figures have a 70% variant each way, either positive or negative. So the death rates are not accurate at all, which is exactly what John Hopkins and other data analysts are all saying now. Second to that you have spent page after page bigging up Malta/Germany's testing whilst smashing the UKs testing (I'm probs not in disagreement with you there) but which way do you want it? Do you want to subscribe to the testing figures as they are, with no disrepute, or do you want to be sensible about it and carefully consider each different variant that each nation inevitably has?

A decision was taken to only test those that were sick in the UK. A lot of the people dying now would have tested positive in that period. There are a hell of a lot of people who would have had symptoms, recovered from it and never been tested negatively or positively.

Literally every expert is saying the same thing: we cannot accurately predict the death rate of this virus until a) reliable testing is confirmed or b) an antibody test is established to determine who has been infected and who hasn't.

You are peddling a half truth to either further a point or, which would be weird, to spread fear. I can't see why because some of your other posts are balanced. I suspect you are trying to hard to score points against a government you don't like. 

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11 minutes ago, philipl said:

These are the current death rates:

Malta 1 per 167,000

Germany 1 per 33,000

UK 1 per 6,785 head of population.

Now you either accept official statistics or you don't.

Australia 1 per 423,728

and that's allowing for the complete and utter balls up by the officials allowing the Ruby Princess to disembark it's passengers without proper testing

so what's Malta doing wrong

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41 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

Have you ever been to Malta ? !

Well Tyrone these are the stats:

Malta's entire country is 1,505 people per square km.

Our worst affected areas are London and Birmingham, accounting for the majority of our deaths and infected:

London = 4,542 people per square km

Birmingham = 3,649 people per square km.

Manchester = 4,716 people per square km.

In comparison only Valetta comes close with 3,330 people per square km.

All of this is also not taking into account that Malta doesn't have an international hub slap bang in the centre of its most populated city. The UK is a busier island with far more tourism, especially from tourism from outside of the EU. We are undoubtedly going to be hit worse than them.

I'm glad Malta got a grip of this but I'm getting tired of the stats shown about them being extrapolated across the UKs population like the situation is that simple. It's disingenuous, Phillipl knows it but does so because that's what he is like. You know it too, but probably stomach it because it is showing figures the way you want to see them.

Ultimately there's not a single expert out there trying to put an accurate figure on the death rates of this virus....except philipl. That tells all the tale you need to know.

 

Edited by Dreams of 1995
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7 minutes ago, dave birch said:

Australia 1 per 423,728

and that's allowing for the complete and utter balls up by the officials allowing the Ruby Princess to disembark it's passengers without proper testing

so what's Malta doing wrong

Case and point. Perfect analysis right there of how bullshit Phillipl's stats have been throughout all of this.

It's actually very wrong for someone to be trying to put out so much fake information, even if only on a board of a handful of people.

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28 minutes ago, philipl said:

These are the current death rates:

Malta 1 per 167,000

Germany 1 per 33,000

UK 1 per 6,785 head of population.

Now you either accept official statistics or you don't.

What does the comparison look like with Spain, Italy, and France included.

You're cherry picking, which makes them misleading statistics.  

Official statistics they may be, but fair comparison, not so much. 

Edit: Netherlands too, as they are closest to us in terms of population to land mass.

Edited by Silas
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https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/12/coronavirus-statistics-what-can-we-trust-and-what-should-we-ignore

An article from two experts in the field, and a direct quote from it:

"Finally, it’s tempting to link a country’s statistics to the measures they have taken to control the virus: for example, has Sweden’s more relaxed policy been as effective as lockdown? But countries differ in so many ways: basic demographics, compliance and social networks, testing capacity and policy, health service characteristics and so on."

Literally no one is trying to use the statistical data available currently to judge a governments response to the virus, except folk on social media. This board is actually far more balanced than any other form of social media to its credit, so we should all be wary of spreading fake information. 

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Deaths per million of population:

1. Spain -  363

2. Italy - 322

3. Belgium - 311

4. France - 212

5. Netherlands - 160

6. UK -    145

7. Switzerland -  120

8. Germany -  34

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/?

 

Far more accurate comparison of the state of play at the moment. Amazing what Germany are doing so far. Well done them. And I have no doubt we will climb this list, probably into the top 3. 

But, some of the blatant misinformation and false comparisons in this thread are becoming tiresome. 

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Just now, dave birch said:

Reports here are that Boris has been discharged from hospital.

Yes he’s been discharged. 

3 nights in intensive care, was touch and go at one stage, but was claimed on here that he wasn’t that ill at all.......sort of backs up my earlier point.

You only hope that Johnson will now understand how important it is to fund the NHS properly and all our front line services, time will tell on that score.

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Just now, Gav said:

Yes he’s been discharged. 

3 nights in intensive care, was touch and go at one stage, but was claimed on here that he wasn’t that ill at all.......sort of backs up my earlier point.

You only hope that Johnson will now understand how important it is to fund the NHS properly and all our front line services, time will tell on that score.

Problem is getting it through the party, Gav.

There will still be many members of the Conservative party that believe small government is still a viable option when it comes to health. Johnson might want to give the NHS the golden egg when this is all over but if Rees-Mogg, who has probably been isolating in utter luxury whilst his nanny does the hard graft, probably thinks the NHS deserves to lose money because it isn't up to scratch. It's a game of chess.

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36 minutes ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

Case and point. Perfect analysis right there of how bullshit Phillipl's stats have been throughout all of this.

It's actually very wrong for someone to be trying to put out so much fake information, even if only on a board of a handful of people.

Er didn't you rely on population density a post or 2 back?

Australia's population density 7 per sq mile. Just about the lowest in the world! You can argue its relevancy given that much of Australia is uninhabitable but it shows the dangers we are getting into with statistical comparisons. You could probably find anomalies in the examples given above, or someone else could!

7 minutes ago, Yoogo said:

His recovery should also give people a bit of a boost.

Really? I'm glad for him and his friends and family. They'll get a boost. Can't say I'd take it farther than that.

34 minutes ago, Mike E said:

Sky News reporting that Tim Brooke-Taylor, of 'I'm Sorry I Haven't A Clue' fame has passed away of/with Covid-19 :(

Oh no! Really sad about that.

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  • Moderation Lead

Hi Everyone, hope you are all having a nice Easter weekend and enjoying this cracking weather. 
I’ve just come back from my daily exercise (got a good 8 mile walk in to be negated by a roast dinner later, in case you were wondering) and I’ve seen quite a few posts that are getting close to the kind of thing we would hide or issue warnings for. 
Whilst I totally understand that many of us have differing opinions about this subject, one thing that won’t be tolerated is insults and a lack of common decency. 
Think on before you post and enjoy the rest of your weekend. 
Thanks.

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Just now, 47er said:

Er didn't you rely on population density a post or 2 back?

Australia's population density 7 per sq mile. Just about the lowest in the world! You can argue its relevancy given that much of Australia is uninhabitable but it shows the dangers we are getting into with statistical comparisons. You could probably find anomalies in the examples given above, or someone else could!

 

I think it went over your head a little there, 47er.

What davebirch said was tongue in cheek. Phillipl was trying to make out like the death rates were in line with government handling of it. The stats are a misrepresentation of the truth.

I wouldn't try and claim Australia handled it better than Malta because they had less deaths to confirmed cases. What we were doing is proving how silly Phillipl's posts have been. Which, by your post, you agree with us.

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