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False dichotomy alert. I don't quite see how the two are related. I mean it's not an either or is it? Given the furlough and mortgage schemes (both excellent btw) are already in place before Cumm

Have spent a couple of days thinking what to write on here as I am utterly bewildered as to what this so called government is up to regarding schools. Firstly, before Christmas my school had seve

All I can say is it's a nice bonus as a key worker that my son arrived today instead of his due date of 22nd December. Work have very generously offered me extended Pat Leave for 3 weeks full pay as o

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19 minutes ago, scotchrover said:

Well that was bloody awful from Johnson. 17 minutes of waffle, that only left more questions than answers. If we’re honest, what was the point in the speech? It meant lots of clarifying documents had to be released following it. Surely that’s not the purpose of something like that?

As a teacher, the one thing that really annoyed me though was how now expects schools to suddenly start operating in June. I have the following questions for Boris:

1) How does he expect schools to maintain social distancing measures with children?

2) How does he expect schools full of staff in isolation, to suddenly come back to work, without endangering their health?

3) How does he expect parents to suddenly start endangering the lives of their children, and those who they live with, by letting them return to school?

I will be voting for strike action if he ignores me and many thousands of other hard working teachers. We’re already putting our lives at risk by not being given the right protective equipment. 

Good post.

And just to clear up...

Other workers can go to work tomorrow unless you have to rely on public transport, in which case don't.

If your work place has implemented the stringent health and safety rules to allow sufficient physical distancing at all times then go, but if they haven't don't..

Unless they provide you with adequate PPE. 

Is it not also a bit weird that we were told after 8 weeks we should be back at work tomorrow morning promptly, Yet we have till  Wednesday to come to terms with the concept of unlimited exercise.

I think Johnson got his pages muddled

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10 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

Number of Coronavirus deaths per million of population

AG-COVID-DEATHS-PER-MILLION-06-MAY-1830.

I thought it wasn't worthwhile making comparisons with other countries, we're all different etc?

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What a total mess in the UK.

Apparently a key anti-Covid contract was awarded without bidding to connected persons for £133m.

I have been close enough to get the smell of corruption running throughout the Covid crisis in the UK.

 

Back to last night's Johnson shambles. The fact Chaddy felt it necessary to provide a four line interpretative summary means Johnson failed at the most basic level.

He failed to communicate anything unambiguously and informatively.

Be Alert for something 5 microns wide and invisible to the public eye? WTF

 

Johnson announced a political compromise between warring factions in his own Cabinet. Not a public health policy. 

 

Edited by philipl
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8 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

Thought Johnson's message was clear and simple for normal people to understand. Nothing complicated at all. Judging by my Facebook friends most clearly understood what he was saying. 

Message is

 • You can drive to go for a walk somewhere

• You can play sports (with people in your house)

• You can go to work if you CANNOT work from home, but don’t use public transport. (Walk or cycle if you can)

•Be cautious if you do go out.

•Keep washing hands and being safe. 

 

Again you sound like a propoganda machine. Nothing complicated at all? Clear and simple? 

In contrast to this view even those who have at times been robust in their defence of the government, such as Gav, are saying it was poorly done. 

On the message board posters have highlighted issues both with the stay alert message and raised questions and issues the new guidelines in both a workplace and schools context. 

Outside of the message board we have:

Our 3 devolved governments not changing the slogan with Scotland saying nothing has changed. 

A SAGE expert saying the message is confusing. 

Trade unions warning companies they need more guidance before opening. 

Opposition parties saying the message is confusing (admittedly they are likely to be opposed but they didn't challenge the first message.) 

The police force saying the guidelines are too vague to enforce. 

News sites acknowledging the new guidelines raise questions. 

However apparently according to you it was all clear, simple and nothing complex. Against this weight of evidence you come across as a flat earth proponent stating your views when they are clearly untrue. 

Heck even the phrase stay alert needs some serious linguistical gymnastics to pretend it can't be interpreted in numerous ways. 

 

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I hope everyone is staying alert for the virus when they go back to work, or don't go back to work. I didn't see what our part time PM said as it doesn't really affect me, but it sounds like his usual bluster and winging it approach. It's odd that not one of the cabinet can actually do these press conferences with any competence.

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7 hours ago, 47er said:

I thought it wasn't worthwhile making comparisons with other countries, we're all different etc?

Agreed it works both ways, now hes found a metric where UK isnt the worst, doesnt make comparison any more meaningful. E.g. doesnt take into account variables that swing it the other way like the size of the economy. 

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If its as clear as Chaddy apparently believes, how can you go back to work today if your kid's school isn't open?

If you live in Blackburn and work in Manchester, how do you get there without relying on public transport? How then do you observe social distancing on an over-crowded train or bus?

What do you do if its impossible to observe social distancing at your workplace? Do you walk out and lose your job or stay and risk your life?

These and many others are ordinary everyday questions for ordinary people about whom Johnson knows little.

Clear as mud. Dereliction and abandonment of duty by a PM who lacks knowledge and empathy and is out of his depth.

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Johnson's approach in a nutshell.

Winging it.

And now we have different advice to Government advice in Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland, London and Manchester.

And Tory MPs in seaside resorts complaining the Police don't know what the advice is or when it comes in but they were swamped by crowds of visitors at the weekend.

Same garbage non-sensical approach to Covid as to Brexit.

Total indolent confusion.

 

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5 minutes ago, 47er said:

 

What do you do if its impossible to observe social distancing at your workplace? Do you walk out and lose your job or stay and risk your life?

These and many others are ordinary everyday questions for ordinary people about whom Johnson knows little.

Clear as mud. Dereliction and abandonment of duty by a PM who lacks knowledge and empathy and is out of his depth.

1996 Safety at Work Act gives you the right to walk off the job with impunity if you reasonably believe it endangers your safety without employer provided protection.

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8 minutes ago, 47er said:

If its as clear as Chaddy apparently believes, how can you go back to work today if your kid's school isn't open?

Exactly this. I am a single parent and have my children half of the time - so have been having to work half in the office and half at home. 

Following this announcement, my work have said they expect me to work full time in the office from Monday next week. Yet my 3 year old and 6 year old can't return to school and nursery? So what am I supposed to do?

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This change in message has more to do with the economy by encouraging people to return to work as the furlough scheme and self employment support are likely to be pulled. Don't think they expected the numbers going on these. The problem is for those returning to work many have no work to do. These scheme's have only delayed matters and many firms will reduce staff numbers when the scheme's are ended

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12 minutes ago, philipl said:

1996 Safety at Work Act gives you the right to walk off the job with impunity if you reasonably believe it endangers your safety without employer provided protection.

I think in reality whilst you are protected by legislation it's quite difficult for certain types of people to actually follow through with it. Speaking from experience of coaching my other half through a grievance, it was very easy for me to recite legislation and point out all the employers short comings but the actual act of doing it was quite stressful for her. 

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In the Tory Spectator magazine:

 

Robert Peston

Two big gaps in Boris Johnson’s lockdown statement

The messages were:
There were three messages in Boris Johnson's address to the nation, and quite a lot of important gaps.There were three messages in Boris Johnson's address to the nation, and quite a lot of important gaps.
  1. Because the Covid-19 epidemic has been tempered but not eliminated, lockdown continues – though will be modified very gradually;
  2. It would be a jolly good thing if a few more of us could return to work, especially on construction sites and in factories, so long as that can be done in a way that does not imperil health;
  3. The pace at which lockdown is modified, and whether it is modified at all, is in the collective hands of the British people, and will be wholly determined by whether we continue to obey social-distancing rules.

So what were the gaps? Here are a couple:

  1. We don't know how the financial incentive to stop work, stay home and save lives – the £40bn job retention scheme that pays people to cease engaging in economic activity – will be changed so that it becomes rational for employers and employees to turn on the commercial ignition switch;
  2. We don't yet have a finely calibrated system to tell us precisely what the rate of viral transition is for the UK as a whole, let alone for individual nations, or regions, or localities, and until we do we will be stumbling slightly precariously in the dark as economic and social activity very slowly resumes (the PM today says the R is in the range of 0.5 to 0.9, which does not suggest that the boffins have a high degree of confidence in the current monitoring arrangements).
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9 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

Thought Johnson's message was clear and simple for normal people to understand. Nothing complicated at all. Judging by my Facebook friends most clearly understood what he was saying. 

Message is

 • You can drive to go for a walk somewhere

• You can play sports (with people in your house)

• You can go to work if you CANNOT work from home, but don’t use public transport. (Walk or cycle if you can)

•Be cautious if you do go out.

•Keep washing hands and being safe. 

 

Sorry for picking you out again Chaddy, but Raab has been on the airwaves this morning saying that people can now see two parents while keeping distance. The government has since had to refute his advice by saying people can only see one parent at a time.

even the cabinet don’t understand it.

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England back to the pre-lockdown phase where the public- though not enough of them chose to do so- had to police itself.
 
SZ0f2K6g_normal.jpg
 
 
Brian Booth
@WYPF_Chairman
 
Policing Covid 19 has become impossible after today. My colleagues cannot Engage, Explain, Encourage or Enforce such woolly rules. This is now down to the public to Police itself. Please let’s avoid a second spike. @WestYorksPolFed @Cameramal
7:58 AM · May 11, 2020
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So to summarise: we have an incomprehensible government message, promoted by slogans without meaning, and contradicted by devolved and local political leadership. 
In one week of frenzied reports and front page headlines, that's what's actually been achieved. A deterioration from a clear-cut position to one composed of babbling nonsense, alongside a breakdown in national and local reinforcement. 
I am so exceptionally bored of watching the government fuck this up. They've had weeks to get it right but it's simply beyond them. And watching the PM allow a nearly a full day's gap between his gabbled statement and provision of the details of it is case in point. 
It's alright for me and other people with cosy middle class jobs you can do from home. If I was a worker in a factory, I'd be watching that speech last night and thinking: you just sold me the fuck out. 
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48 minutes ago, philipl said:

1996 Safety at Work Act gives you the right to walk off the job with impunity if you reasonably believe it endangers your safety without employer provided protection.

And if the employer sacks you the fee for a tribunal hearing is?,,,,

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10 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

Thought Johnson's message was clear and simple for normal people to understand. Nothing complicated at all. Judging by my Facebook friends most clearly understood what he was saying. 

Message is

 • You can drive to go for a walk somewhere

• You can play sports (with people in your house)

• You can go to work if you CANNOT work from home, but don’t use public transport. (Walk or cycle if you can)

•Be cautious if you do go out.

•Keep washing hands and being safe. 

 

 

6C2DD9FF-3444-4F0F-BE0A-3A299572A238.png

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He should have left well alone, kept the same measures in place, then the people flouting the rules would continue to do so and the ones not would think twice before doing so and many would just keep the status quo.

Yes the country seems fed up with being locked down, but thousands of people are still losing there lives week in week out, so whats the answer, garbled, incoherent messages from the PM.

He should be put straight back on sick leave if you ask me. 

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49 minutes ago, den said:

Sorry for picking you out again Chaddy, but Raab has been on the airwaves this morning saying that people can now see two parents while keeping distance. The government has since had to refute his advice by saying people can only see one parent at a time.

even the cabinet don’t understand it.

I didn't hear anything about being allowed to meet people from other households, parents or family members, did I miss that whilst shouting at the Tv?

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2 minutes ago, Gav said:

I didn't hear anything about being allowed to meet people from other households, parents or family members, did I miss that whilst shouting at the Tv?

I’m as confused as you Gav.

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