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56 minutes ago, philipl said:

The point about mask wearing is it helps you directly but it protects everyone else from you and therefore offers you massive protection if everyone is wearing them.

image.png.f4896fb9271b92a731781fc8754cd69a.png 

https://science.sciencemag.org/content/368/6498/1422?fbclid=IwAR3F5Tb6lNeZmCoJ1Siewjb3AR8O-bttZnihQhi-xGBgVIWKWZ_sPRTg-jI

 

There are a lot of studies showing this and here's an early paper showing this.

Mask wearing is pretty much accepted by everyone now. Its quite difficult to do lab infection studies, except with animals. But there are two quite studies. First was with a two small rodents separated by a mask. The uninfected rodent was protected.

Second was a study by a German colleague who looked at the spread during an international flight. They could follow the spread and linked it to where they were sat on thr plane and proximityto infected individuals. Future studies were difficult because passengers are now forced to wear a mask, so infection rates are much lower. 

Plane transmission, no masks study: https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2769383

 

Edited by Hannoverover
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Mask wearing is the most effective and cost effective way of stopping Covid.

It should have been made mandatory and enforced from last February.

Incidentally I have had no colds or flu at any time in 2020- a first calendar year for me. An added bonus of enhanced hand cleaning, mask wearing and taking care. 

Below are pictures of Seoul in 2019. South Korea has had one of the lowest rates of Covid in the World with minimal shat downs.

https://editorial01.shutterstock.com/wm-preview-1500/10057006a/2d42acbc/thick-fine-dust-in-seoul-korea-shutterstock-editorial-10057006a.jpg


https://image.shutterstock.com/image-photo/seoul-korea-feb-23-2020-260nw-1654510207.jpg

 

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44 minutes ago, Jimbo said:

The rules only work if people abide by them, and there have been too many playing fast and loose with their own interpretation of them

I'd flip that and say that rules only work if they're clear, consistent and logical. If you want to take a strict approach to restrictions, leaving them open to interpretation wont work. 

When your guidelines are based on where the chip and pin machines are rather than health then you're setting yourself up for failure. 30 at a wedding but 15 at a funeral type crap. 

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5 minutes ago, philipl said:

Incidentally I have had no colds or flu at any time in 2020- a first calendar year for me. An added bonus of enhanced hand cleaning, mask wearing and taking care. 

+1 for this - No colds in our family since last Xmas

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1 hour ago, HowieFive0 said:

Id also question the quality of facemasks that people actually wear. Novelty flimsy cotton masks with no filters worn more than the recommended 'once'..may as well not wear one.

Also face masks lead to a false sense of security with people not adhering to the Two metre rule which seems more important than wearing a mask.

Supermarkets crowded with face masked customers not adhering to the two metre rules like we see now ..or do we go back to stores monitoring numbers ..queueing  two metres out side and let in when capacity allows like we were doing for the first few months of the outbreak ?

Crowds indoors breathing all the same air is deadly with ineffective masks im sure .. 

I watched a demonstration on TV to decide which masks were most effective. Every kind of mask helped and even one layer of not particularly close woven fabric improved the lack of spread. A double fabric layer was highly effective. They are not 100% effective and therefore social distancing, washing hands,  not spending too much time indoors with other people are still important. 

Im surprised you find supermarkets crowded with people not wearing masks. Here in Clitheroe I havent seen anyone without one in our supermarkets. And Sainsburys definitely has someone on the door controlling numbers in and out. Aldi has a green light system.  I dont know how effective it is but I've never been in there when its been crowded, and most people sanitise their trolleys and their hands. 

Government can't ban us from food shopping so we do need to limit how often we shop, what time we go etc to minimise infection levels

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I think a lot of people mistake covid for a highly radioactive substance ironically by people at both ends of the spectrum

A. Those that wont leave their house through fear of breathing any air that isnt within their four walls 

B. The covid deniers who claim masks are totally ineffective because they let through a tiny bit of covid.

 

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6 minutes ago, gumboots said:

I watched a demonstration on TV to decide which masks were most effective. Every kind of mask helped and even one layer of not particularly close woven fabric improved the lack of spread. A double fabric layer was highly effective. They are not 100% effective and therefore social distancing, washing hands,  not spending too much time indoors with other people are still important. 

Im surprised you find supermarkets crowded with people not wearing masks. Here in Clitheroe I havent seen anyone without one in our supermarkets. And Sainsburys definitely has someone on the door controlling numbers in and out. Aldi has a green light system.  I dont know how effective it is but I've never been in there when its been crowded, and most people sanitise their trolleys and their hands. 

Government can't ban us from food shopping so we do need to limit how often we shop, what time we go etc to minimise infection levels

I think you mis read me there Gumboots. 

I said Supermarkets crowded with people WEARING masks but then not adhering to the Two Metre rule because they ARE wearing a mask. As for "Crowd Control" on the doors ..certainly Asda/Tesco here none existent the last couple of months the only rule being ..wear a mask. The first three months you couldnt enter any shop..petrol station without queueing ..all rather lax now. I miss those boll@ckings off Tesco door patrol and Queue Co ordinaters  inside  !!

Also ..i wonder how many people throw away their masks away  daily once wet from wearing  as the NHS staff do ?? .. or are they  still using the same one from two months ago ??

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2 hours ago, philipl said:

The point about mask wearing is it helps you directly but it protects everyone else from you and therefore offers you massive protection if everyone is wearing them.

image.png.f4896fb9271b92a731781fc8754cd69a.png 

Absolute twaddle.

They offer virtually no protection.  I'll give you an example   

Imagine your common garden kids trampoline....imagine the aperture (diameter) of the top.  That's your mask.

The virus is like throwing a tennis ball onto the trampoline from above....its so much smaller than the holes in our masks.

Masks are useless, we have all been hoodwinked.  Problem is that people with masks on then forget social distancing....

Why else are the cases rising, we are all wearing masks and locked down????

Edited by Sparks Rover
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3 minutes ago, RoverDom said:

 

B. The covid deniers who claim masks are totally ineffective because they let through a tiny bit of covid.

 

They are totally ineffective and I'm not a covid denier. However  I know many many people in the medical industry 

Edited by Sparks Rover
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8 minutes ago, HowieFive0 said:

I think you mis read me there Gumboots. 

I said Supermarkets crowded with people WEARING masks but then not adhering to the Two Metre rule because they ARE wearing a mask. As for "Crowd Control" on the doors ..certainly Asda/Tesco here none existent the last couple of months the only rule being ..wear a mask. The first three months you couldnt enter any shop..petrol station without queueing ..all rather lax now. I miss those boll@ckings off Tesco door patrol and Queue Co ordinaters  inside  !!

Also ..i wonder how many people throw away their masks away  daily once wet from wearing  as the NHS staff do ?? .. or are they  still using the same one from two months ago ??

Actually I think I read 2 posts and they sort of merged in my mind. Someone else was complaining about people not wearing masks! Apologies 

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5 minutes ago, only2garners said:

Booths here in Penwortham has never stopped counting and controlling numbers and also has someone sanitising trolleys and baskets for you.

id better upgrade my Supermarket  then 🙄😂

The point is that MANY shops petrol stations etc etc have  now done away with the crowd control as long as masks are worn.

Crammed into shops with no Two Metre adherence with ineffective masks breathing in the same air isnt very good ..

 

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4 minutes ago, 47er said:

Looks worn out too.

 

Most of us can only imagine the stress Hancock has been under for the past 11 months. 

Yes he's got things wrong, yes at times he's been out of his depth, but on a human level he's not trying to kill people and must be absolutely worn out with the weight of the country firmly on his shoulders.

I know at a local level decision makers take every death personally, he'll be no different.

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1 hour ago, Sparks Rover said:

Absolute twaddle.

They offer virtually no protection.  I'll give you an example   

Imagine your common garden kids trampoline....imagine the aperture (diameter) of the top.  That's your mask.

The virus is like throwing a tennis ball onto the trampoline from above....its so much smaller than the holes in our masks.

Masks are useless, we have all been hoodwinked.  Problem is that people with masks on then forget social distancing....

Why else are the cases rising, we are all wearing masks and locked down????

The virus needs to reach somebody. Environmental conditions (UV, humidity etc.) limit the life of the virus. Wearing a face mask limits the distance the virus can be projected so helps keep everyone safer. Try blowing out a candle with your mask on. Or, to use your analogy, throw your tennis ball into a gale.

Not wearing a mask is just selfish nonsense (VERY few exceptions)

I agree with the social distancing though, easy to feel protected in a mask but they don't filter the air enough, as you say, for people to stand next to each other. It's just an extra level of protection.

Edited by RoverinYorkshire
Added a bit extra :)
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4 hours ago, Jimbo said:

Although there's no way I'd have been anywhere near those trains, why would Londoners be fleeing from their homes, It's more likely it's regular shoppers (given that yesterday was the peak Xmas shopping day) plus people from the North trying to get home for Christmas.

If they are people who live in London going back to their family homes in the North then they're Londoners aren't they? The number of Northerners who just happened to find themselves visiting London yesterday must have been vanishingly small.

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59 minutes ago, RoverinYorkshire said:

The virus needs to reach somebody. Environmental conditions (UV, humidity etc.) limit the life of the virus. Wearing a face mask limits the distance the virus can be projected so helps keep everyone safer. Try blowing out a candle with your mask on. Or, to use your analogy, throw your tennis ball into a gale.

Not wearing a mask is just selfish nonsense (VERY few exceptions)

I agree with the social distancing though, easy to feel protected in a mask but they don't filter the air enough, as you say, for people to stand next to each other. It's just an extra level of protection.

That was my understanding, it doesn't do much to stop you getting it, but it can stop you spreading it. 

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1 hour ago, only2garners said:

Booths here in Penwortham has never stopped counting and controlling numbers and also has someone sanitising trolleys and baskets for you.

Ditto at Waitrose near Preston

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4 hours ago, HowieFive0 said:

One has to question now the effectiveness of face masks...

The last two ? months face masks have been compulsory up and down the country yet the covid spike is growing day by day .

 Compulsory in shops etc but many people ignore it. They haven't been compuisory in the street - which they probably should be. 

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1 hour ago, RoverinYorkshire said:

The virus needs to reach somebody. Environmental conditions (UV, humidity etc.) limit the life of the virus. Wearing a face mask limits the distance the virus can be projected so helps keep everyone safer. Try blowing out a candle with your mask on. Or, to use your analogy, throw your tennis ball into a gale.

Not wearing a mask is just selfish nonsense (VERY few exceptions)

I agree with the social distancing though, easy to feel protected in a mask but they don't filter the air enough, as you say, for people to stand next to each other. It's just an extra level of protection.

Are you a doctor? This came from a very high up doctor in Merseyside.   Only saying what I was told   kind of accounts for the virus spreading despite our measures.

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