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1 hour ago, joey_big_nose said:

It's a tough one to appreciete due to the confusing impacts of the time lag. But I don't think government need to add any further restrictions in London as it stands.

North West on other hand is on its way up still so there is a good argument for stronger restrictions there.

Joey - whilst further restrictions in London might not make any logical sense based on the current data, it would be a political minefield for the Government to suggest that London and the South East are OK but let's screw down the North again. The one thing that has pretty much united everyone I've talked to up here is anger at the way we've been left to cope for months under various versions of lockdown but only serious supporting actions happen when the South East needs to do something. Apart from odd times when non-essential shops have opened for a bit we have been in much the same sort of lockdown since early October.

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False dichotomy alert. I don't quite see how the two are related. I mean it's not an either or is it? Given the furlough and mortgage schemes (both excellent btw) are already in place before Cumm

Have spent a couple of days thinking what to write on here as I am utterly bewildered as to what this so called government is up to regarding schools. Firstly, before Christmas my school had seve

as you know i dont post on here anymore but i will this once just to wish everyone the best and hope everyone stays safe and comes thru at the other side  of this sad mess.  i would also like to

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7 minutes ago, only2garners said:

Joey - whilst further restrictions in London might not make any logical sense based on the current data, it would be a political minefield for the Government to suggest that London and the South East are OK but let's screw down the North again. The one thing that has pretty much united everyone I've talked to up here is anger at the way we've been left to cope for months under various versions of lockdown but only serious supporting actions happen when the South East needs to do something. Apart from odd times when non-essential shops have opened for a bit we have been in much the same sort of lockdown since early October.

Oh agree with that completely. Not saying what the politicians should decide to do, just what the data says.

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30 minutes ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

With respect to schools, yes I do. However that isn't the case. I know more people who are classed as key workers than aren't. A big example is a good friend of mine is the local window cleaner and his Mrs is a saleswoman for Lee Brothers (they sell PPE/work gear). Both are classed as "unable to work from home", have key worker status in case they are stopped out and about and therefore their two children are still attending school. In reality neither are required to keep the country functioning and alive

Yes I am class as key worker cos of my job so my step daughter could be in school technically but we kept her and working from home. Far from ideal but we feel that it's for the best. She will do the work at home so wont be behind after Easter when she goes back. 

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1 hour ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

 

Image

That picture sums this dickhead up. Never moreso than now have we needed Conservatives to act like actual frigging Conservatives. I don't mean like these ERG UKIP-lite types, I mean like normal bloody Conservatives. Clarke, Stewart, Soames, Heseltine. I may disagree with them on several topics but they were normal frigging human beings who see the value in CONSERVING lives instead of washing the blood off their hands in some feeble attempt to appease limp-wristed 'but I deserve to meet my friends for a coffee or a beer, a mask is a muzzle' types at the same time as appeasing the ones who want us chained to our beds day and night.

Lead us! Set rules that make sense! Enforce them! It's not that fucking difficult.

/rant

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33 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Yes I am class as key worker cos of my job so my step daughter could be in school technically but we kept her and working from home. Far from ideal but we feel that it's for the best. She will do the work at home so wont be behind after Easter when she goes back. 

Might be the case for yourself Chaddy but not everybody has the luxury of being able to do so.

With so many now being classed as key workers, and the chance of childcare taken away, there is little option left to some parents but to send their kids to school unnecessarily. The rules are flawed but the government knows this and has known this for far too long. When this latest lockdown was first announced several posters on here called what would happen and it has. If us folk can see it then those dictating policy can too.

This has never been a case of saving as many lives as possible like they are making out. It has been a case of doing what they can to appease those most fearful whilst also appeasing the business leaders that donate their huge campaign funds. They should tell us it is either one way or another. Say what you like about Trump at least he was honest in his lack of care for the general public.

The in-the-middle approach by this government has meant most of the country has had social restrictions for nearly 10 months now. Meanwhile, London can be free from them whilst it is ok there, whereas the North of England suffers when London is hit and when they are hit themselves. This govt has shown contempt for the likes of me and you and with respect by now if you don't feel let down by them then I fear you are happy to be taken for a fool by them. 

I agree that they are in an impossible situation at times but like most European governments they are simply failing their people because they were too bothered with being seen as the givers of freedom and their approval ratings than they were actually dealing with this. The only thing you can say about the rest of the EU is that at least, as far as we know, they didn't engage in a campaign of disaster capitalism that has seen hundreds of millions of pounds into the hands of dodgy middlemen, start up shell companies and donors whilst people have been hung out to dry.

The chickens will come home to roost. The saying goes "don't piss on my back and tell me it is raining" and they have been pissing on our backs since March now.

And I will point out that I have been against lockdowns since March because not one of them has been a real lockdown in any sense of the word. It has been "kicking the can down the road" whilst they pray for a vaccine; meanwhile Serco and the rest have seen millions upon millions for a failed system which they refuse to take credit for. Do you think if Track and Trace was a success they'd still be calling it "NHS track and trace" or do you think Serco would want their brand advertised? 

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2 hours ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

Meanwhile Derbyshire Police fined two women for walking in a park, for which they drove to and said technically the coffee cups they were holding could be classed as a picnic.

The phrase "easy target" springs to mind.Matt Hancock came out and 'backed the police absolutely' and warned that those 'breaking the rules' were risking the entire countries health and

placed the importance of compliance in order to protect the NHS.

This is the same Hancock that flouted the rules in the Westminster bar? Never trust a man who is scared to head a ball - he's a coward.

I wish we could have a theme picture for each thread because this picture should go down in history.

Image

Kevin Moran V the Derby County defence in that play off game comes to mind. I'm pretty sure who won this contest and it wasn't the muppet in the green.

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2 hours ago, only2garners said:

Still there Gav, but there's no spare staff for them - they are struggline enough as it is keeping the other hospitals running

I've just asked specifically about the Nightingales o2g.

The Nightingales are going to be used for patients who in recovery, this will free up hospital beds for the more urgent/serious cases. They will be staffed by military personal, medics with some support from NHS staff, but mostly military personnel.

The military are out vaccinating across the UK and feeding into the logistical side of moving the vaccine around the UK.

Saw a stat earlier, 90m people worldwide have had Covid19 with 1.9m deaths, yet some people still thinks its a hoax.....

 

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PM warns of tougher rules if we dont focus on following the current restrictions. 

Totally nonsensical. It's the same as, "if you dont stop doing 50mph through a 30 zone we'll lower the speed limit to 20mph." Is that going to stop people speeding, or just slow people down who were already following the speed limit. Or would you instead put a speed camera up and/or increase fines. 

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6 minutes ago, RoverDom said:

PM warns of tougher rules if we dont focus on following the current restrictions. 

Totally nonsensical. It's the same as, "if you dont stop doing 50mph through a 30 zone we'll lower the speed limit to 20mph." Is that going to stop people speeding, or just slow people down who were already following the speed limit. Or would you instead put a speed camera up and/or increase fines. 

Logically what Boris is suggesting does make sense, although it is unfair. The way the viral spread works is through trasmissions through human interactions. If you reduce interactions you will reduce spread. It doesn't really care if the person is following or not following rules. So what you can do if a few people ignore the rules and are behaving like idiots and creating interactions, is ask for even fewer interations to those who do listen to drive down overall numbers of interactions (and therefore opportunities for spread).

In effect the rule followers "pay" for the infractions of the rule ignorers. It's not fair but it is how epidemiology works. 

Indeed if everyone was incredibly scrupulous about avoiding interactions we wouldn't need as strict a lock down at all. But unfortunately that isn't how society works.

I guess the issue for the government is how do you effectively stop people hell bent on interacting from doing it. Fining those individuals may not really be that effective as they would just do it elsewhere less visibly.... pragmatically asking for more from those who actually do follow the rules (who make up the vast vast majority of those in society) is more effective.

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25 minutes ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

1 in 8 schools reporting over 50% attendance according to the Guardian.

1 in 6 reporting over a third - so 33.33%.

 

I mentioned this last week, everyone's a key worker, so the kids can attend school.

The government are playing with lives here, again....

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2 hours ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

I agree that they are in an impossible situation at times 

Yes they are. It's fine balancing act where you protecting people's health and welfare but also having to look after the economy plus people's jobs, mortgages and businesses, etc. 

Just currently listening to the chancellor Sunak in the commons with his statement 

2 hours ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

And I will point out that I have been against lockdowns since March because not one of them has been a real lockdown in any sense of the word. 

I will say the 1st lockdown was real lockdown to be honest. The problem is now some people are fed up of lockdowns and have ignore the rules. That's why we seen CMO Whitty on tv this morning trying to the simple message home but he has also said that the economy is important for people welfare and mental health aswell. 

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If the government is in an "impossible situation" it is one of their own making.

Juggling between the nation's health and keeping the economy going was never going to work. If that had clamped down hard, long and early, until the virus was virtually stamped out, we wouldn't be in this mess. 

China, New Zealand and others showed how it should be done and now their economies are back to normal. China in particular is forging ahead of the rest of the world.

Like the US, Brazil, Mexico and other countries with poor leadership, this country has failed abjectly during this crisis. 

None of this is hindsight; all of it was entirely foreseeable

 

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38 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

I will say the 1st lockdown was real lockdown to be honest. 

It really wasn't chaddy. The 'rules' (such as they were) had too many loopholes and ambiguities in them.

A real lockdown would see ports and airports closed and roadblocks in place to stop non-essential travel. All they did was say 'work from home if you can' and stop all social activity. 

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49 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

 

Yes they are. It's fine balancing act where you protecting people's health and welfare but also having to look after the economy plus people's jobs, mortgages and businesses, etc. 

Just currently listening to the chancellor Sunak in the commons with his statement 

I will say the 1st lockdown was real lockdown to be honest. The problem is now some people are fed up of lockdowns and have ignore the rules. That's why we seen CMO Whitty on tv this morning trying to the simple message home but he has also said that the economy is important for people welfare and mental health aswell. 

They aren't all the time Chaddy, only at times. 

The economy has took a bigger hit than it otherwise would if they got their act together early. That is undeniable. The public money siphoned off to private companies and middle men doesn't help matters either, let's be honest here. Peoples jobs, mortgages and businesses have been impacted worse by not putting in place effective measures to control the virus when they had relatively normal levels of infection back in April. They were too bothered about pretending they could test x amount of people within 24 hours.

I don't think people are fed up of actual lockdowns. People are fed up of being lied to. They are fed up of being told it is a lockdown when in reality it is just restrictions on socialising. Had we all stayed in doors for another couple of weeks in April; had the government have allowed local authorities and the NHS to manage track & trace (with the £10bn they have given Serco); had the government have put in place effective relief packages for those told to isolate as opposed to forcing people to almost deny the virus exists; had the government put peoples lives infront of the economy then we still wouldn't be in a lockdown. See NZ and Australia for examples of how that works.

All in all this Tory govt have let out country down. You shouldn't let them off the hook so easily following bollocks catch phrases about "balancing the economy with people" because a fearful consumer is not an effective consumer. My friends in NZ have spent the winter spending money and seeing each other because their govt made them do the hard work early on. Our govt has made our economy as sick as the people because it has always bowed to pressure from every angle.

You give them too easy a ride Chad, they are meant to represent us. You should be angry that they are spouting shite about the importance of the economy to peoples welfare when they have spunked how many millions on useless PPE to their friends. That money could have been used to genuinely support our economy and peoples welfare. Instead some Spanish businessman is having a few drinks on us in his private villa whilst we suffer another 6 weeks of indoors, no socialising and all the effects that brings with it. And to top it off there are now reports Boris has broken lockdown rules!

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9 minutes ago, oldjamfan1 said:

It really wasn't chaddy. The 'rules' (such as they were) had too many loopholes and ambiguities in them.

A real lockdown would see ports and airports closed and roadblocks in place to stop non-essential travel. All they did was say 'work from home if you can' and stop all social activity. 

It was industry that made the first lockdown effective by shutting down when they didn't really need to.

A lot of construction firms shut, which gave us the 6 weeks in lockdown but were then told by the Business department that actually they are essential workers. Same with manufacturing. The government never actually told them to shut but simply didn't relay their advice as well as they should. Which has been a theme from day 1.

On the morning of this lockdown Alok Sharma got in direct contact with industry leaders to tell them that, regardless of the message Boris Johnson relays tonight, construction was not to shut. I heard that direct from somebody at Build UK which is where people look to for construction industry advice.

Now you can take that two ways: 1) at least this time he was pro-active  or 2) was he aware that Boris was going to insinuate more of a restrictive lockdown than what was reality?

Personally I think 2. Think back to the December lockdown you will see BJ explicitly mentioned "construction and manufacturing" to remain open whereas this time, if you only listened to the press release, you'd be forgiven for thinking all industry except 'key workers' (still undefined really) were to stay at home. Naughty imo.

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I don’t get what the govt are trying to achieve TBH. I get their message that everyone should stick by the rules. They’re pushing very hard on that one - and rightly so. 

but..... all this is based on horrendous figures on infections and on around 7000 people dieing every week and expected to rise. They could quite easily and immediately respond to those awful figures by strengthening lockdown. 
 

It’s almost as if they have decided to make protecting businesses the priority and accept those deaths because vaccinations are on their way giving them some imaginary cover for not doing enough.

Someone tell me why that isn’t the case.

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You'd almost think Dominic Cummings was still pulling the strings in No 10. According to reports, he wanted to let the virus rip in the community to achieve "herd immunity" and was prepared to sacrifice older people in order to achieve it. 

The roads in our area are busier than ever, people and business is carrying on, and many folk are just paying lip service to the "rules"  in the shops and in public areas. This isn't the lockdown we have at present, nothing like it. 

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Clitheroe was like a ghost town today. I know it was raining but all the high street was dark. There were fewer than a dozen people in the supermarket. Perhaps we're just well behaved here but if so, why are our cases still rising? 

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2 hours ago, jim mk2 said:

If the government is in an "impossible situation" it is one of their own making.

Juggling between the nation's health and keeping the economy going was never going to work. If that had clamped down hard, long and early, until the virus was virtually stamped out, we wouldn't be in this mess. 

China, New Zealand and others showed how it should be done and now their economies are back to normal. China in particular is forging ahead of the rest of the world.

Like the US, Brazil, Mexico and other countries with poor leadership, this country has failed abjectly during this crisis. 

None of this is hindsight; all of it was entirely foreseeable

 

Basically, this. 
All these other countries have gotten their act together and are effectively back to normal. Meanwhile, we are in a worse spot than we were last March.

It’s just an absolute shit show and has been the entire time. Like most other people, I’m totally fed up, I miss friends, family, things I used to enjoy doing and just about everything else in between. 
 

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23 minutes ago, jim mk2 said:

 

The roads in our area are busier than ever, people and business is carrying on, and many folk are just paying lip service to the "rules"  in the shops and in public areas. This isn't the lockdown we have at present, nothing like it. 

Twice as much traffic on the roads compared to the first lockdown, that tells the story Jim.

Leeds, Bradford and Sheffield traffic dropped to under 30% of normal levels in March, today all are over 75%, people are not listening. 

Leeds Grand Mosque have taken the decision to close to help NHS and try to stop the spread. They are not required to close under the current restrictions, but have taken that step themselves.

Good effort.

Edited by Gav
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11 minutes ago, Gav said:

Twice as much traffic on the roads compared to the first lockdown, that tells the story Jim.

Leeds, Bradford and Sheffield traffic dropped to under 30% of normal levels in March, today all are over 75%, people are not listening. 

I agree with the traffic part Gav but have to disagree on the final part. I think they are listening but the guidance is neither here nor there.

Employers still expect people in to work, therefore they have to travel. It is far easier to travel by car than public transport in the middle of all of this so even people that might have got the bus or train are now driving in.

Lastly, I would argue the complacency of the rules comes from the contradictory nature of them. As we have said until we are blue in the face - it begs belief they can continue to hark on about the dangers of socialising whilst still saying, with a straight face, work environments, schools and colleges are "covid secure".

As I have heard lads say time and time again: if I am safe to get into a work van, share the same canteen, then I am safe to have a beer with him after work. What can you say to it? Nowt.....he has a point. Even my old lady is telling me not to listen to the restrictions anymore because she's being forced to go into the office every day but told she can't see her son! She's usually as complicit as they come with anything the govt tell her...too much usually I say.

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I mean, look, this is the plan: https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/jan/11/ban-on-exercising-with-others-likely-but-elite-sport-fears-played-down

"talk of banning people exercising with one other person"; "we are seeing large groups and this is unacceptable".

It is very important people don’t try to flex the boundaries around it,” he added. “Don’t say you are exercising when you are really socialising. We really don’t want to have to tighten it further.” - Hancock directly. It is all about no socialising, not about restricting the virus. It is nearly turning me into a conspiracy theorist that they will never let us bloody do it again. 

I am sorry but that is codswallop frankly.

I reckon amongst the working people on here the amount of people who have met with someone for exercise compared to meeting with someone at work isn't even close. It is ludicrous behaviour and it almost makes you want to stand on the street and say no to it but then you are lumped in with the maskless lunatics.

When did common sense depart this nation?

Edited by Dreams of 1995
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