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50 minutes ago, only2garners said:

No they haven't, not yet anyway. The success of the vaccination programme so far has been down to excellent planning and delivery by the NHS - it's been planned since late Summer. The Government so far has made a few wrong steps with its mass vaccination centres. I heard on FiveLive this afternoon that the centre at Ashton Gate was bigging up it's wonderful performance today on the basis of managing 700 vaccinations a day this week. That's only a few more than the local GP practice centres are doing on a fraction of the resources. Yet the mass centres are being prioritised for vaccine delivery.

Yes it has been excellent planning and delivery by NHS which has been planning for months. So yes the bosses of NHS need praising massively but we need planning for centres, GP practices, etc doing vaccinations. Plus the Army for their logistics role and volunteers at these centres in different roles.  

I guess the 24 hours centres will help massively in getting more vaccinations if they all happened. 

 

26 minutes ago, Gav said:

Over 2.3m vaccines have been given out so far, way above anyone else in Europe. The military have played a major role, it wouldn’t be the anywhere near those numbers without military support.

Its a phenomenal effort by all concerned and no amount of government bashing can hide that fact.

Gav, the total number of people who have been vaccinated so far is 3,559,179 people. Figures released by the department of Health and Social Care 2 hours ago

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23 minutes ago, only2garners said:

You're right Gav that it is an excellent start. But it's got bugger all to do with central Government so far. Their fixation with prioritising grandiose centralised schemes needs to stop or it will just slow everything down.

Well it seems to be going pretty quicky. I guess it would be interesting to see what the breakdown between local vaccine delivery and the mega centres is. To me it does seem without the mega centres it would be hard to hit 350k+ a day but I'm not close to it obviously.

I suspect when it's unpicked the governments/health leadership role is likely to be one of the key factors in why we are so far ahead of other OECD countries on the vaccine roll out. Just as the government/health leadership poor decisions initially in the pandemic led to a significantly higher death rate than other OECD countries.

Everyone globally needs to learn all the lessons from all the different countries approaches at the end of this. 

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23 minutes ago, only2garners said:

You're right Gav that it is an excellent start. But it's got bugger all to do with central Government so far. Their fixation with prioritising grandiose centralised schemes needs to stop or it will just slow everything down.

Central government sourced and ordered the vaccine o2g, we can't hide that fact 👍

Plenty of places around Europe would love to be in our position in terms of vaccinating the population, but I hear you on the centralised schemes. 

8 minutes ago, joey_big_nose said:

3.6M first doses as of yesterday. Doing about 320k a day. Basically on target to hit mid Feb.

https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/healthcare?_ga=2.81886737.625431594.1610562987-1433914007.1609422585

 

🤞🤞

 

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13 hours ago, RoverDom said:

The thing about risk is you cant really 100% eliminate it,

No,but you can underestimate it.

When you were first arguing the illness was being exaggerated we had relatively few deaths, now its over 100000 and you're still at it. Every time we relax the rules the numbers go up. Latest surge is related to Christmas family get-togethers.

Once the general population has had both jabs and the number of new infections is tiny only then should there be a relaxation.

We've had enough false starts.

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8 minutes ago, 47er said:

No,but you can underestimate it.

When you were first arguing the illness was being exaggerated we had relatively few deaths, now its over 100000 and you're still at it. Every time we relax the rules the numbers go up. Latest surge is related to Christmas family get-togethers.

Once the general population has had both jabs and the number of new infections is tiny only then should there be a relaxation.

We've had enough false starts.

Actually they cant find any evidence that christmas get togethers caused a real surge. That was down to other factors like the new variant. They think most people thought for themselves and minimised contact at christmas, especially older people. 

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37 minutes ago, gumboots said:

Actually they cant find any evidence that christmas get togethers caused a real surge. That was down to other factors like the new variant. They think most people thought for themselves and minimised contact at christmas, especially older people. 

Depends who you read.

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57 minutes ago, 47er said:

Once the general population has had both jabs and the number of new infections is tiny only then should there be a relaxation.

That is moving the goal posts a touch considering we were put into all these lockdowns on the basis of protecting the old and vulnerable. Me (and many others) as young  fit and healthy, wanting to take our chances with the virus wasnt an option because it's about who we could pass it on to. We can still have measures in place but this arbitary ban on recreation can do one

 

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1 hour ago, 47er said:

Depends who you read.

Looking at the data the surges seem much more linked to when the new variant arrived than mixing at Christmas.

These graphs on the link below are good, you can see how it surged down south and Wales before Christmas and then up north after Christmas. If Christmas relaxation was the defining factor all areas would have surged at same time.

Not to say the whole handling of Christmas wasn't a shambles, but the impact of it was small compared to how hugely more infectious the varient is.

https://covid.joinzoe.com/your-contribution?utm_source=App

 

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2 hours ago, 47er said:

No,but you can underestimate it.

When you were first arguing the illness was being exaggerated we had relatively few deaths, now its over 100000 and you're still at it. Every time we relax the rules the numbers go up. Latest surge is related to Christmas family get-togethers.

Once the general population has had both jabs and the number of new infections is tiny only then should there be a relaxation.

We've had enough false starts.

Well by that logic we will be in this lockdown until Autumn 2021 / 2022. I think you will be disappointed on that score.

The premise of the vaccines are that they give near total immunity to serious disease to those who have received it (in order to prevent the NHS being overwhelmed). If those at risk have had the vaccine and worked up immunity then the case for lockdown goes away as the pressure on the NHS goes away.

What is your rationale for extending lockdown beyond all the risk groups being vaccinated?

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1 hour ago, Jimbo said:

It's nice to see Gav and Chaddy congratulating the Government managing not to fuck up the vaccine distribution like they have everything else!

Over 8600 people have sadly died from Covid19 across the region where we live. My Mrs has been working 7 days a week, 12hr days since January 2020 to try and save peoples lives, whilst this government are in the background undermining what the experts at local level and trying to achieve. 

You're absolutely right I'm congratulating the government on its current pace/course with the vaccine roll out, because thats the only way we get out of this mess, the only way thousands of people like my Mrs can finally take a break from all the death, heartache and devastation she's personally witnessed over the past 12 months.

You carry on name checking posters, trying to bait them into an argument, you have clearly found your level 👍

 

 

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Ah! a bit of hypocracy as well, name checking is not something Chaddy or yourself do ?

 

The reason for the statement was because you are lionising the Government for somethinmg that is happening despite their inept efforts,  not because of them. From the Grauniad today - This is the problem we face, constantly flag waving and claiming exceptionalism is damaging and needs to be called out

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/jan/14/britain-covid-boris-johnson-brexit

Just ahead of the first national lockdown in March last year, Boris Johnson said Britain could “send coronavirus packing” within 12 weeks. The claim seemed irresponsibly out of step with the scientific consensus even then, but it was only the start of a torrent of doggedly optimistic pandemic messages.

Last July, the prime minister told us that it might be almost over by Christmas. Before that there was the promise of a “world-beating” test and trace system. Then there was Operation Moonshot, which would deliver “literally millions” of rapid Covid-19 tests “on a far bigger scale than any country has yet achieved”. The announcement of a vaccine breakthrough late last year prompted him to hint at the possibility of normality being restored by Easter. And just days before Britain’s death toll from Covid-19 passed 100,000, his party was boasting on social media about the UK being number one in Europe and third in the world for administered vaccine doses – vaccines that, at one point, No 10 wanted emblazoned with the union flag. As though this were a competition between nations and not a collective global effort.

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15 minutes ago, Jimbo said:

The reason for the statement was because you are lionising the Government for somethinmg that is happening despite their inept efforts,  not because of them.

The fact you jumped out of bed and name checked 2 posters in your very first posts of the day, says more about you than it does about anyone else. 

I've explained it to you above in regards to the vaccine roll out, it doesn't surprise me you don't get it, I'll not be explaining it again.

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9 hours ago, joey_big_nose said:

Well by that logic we will be in this lockdown until Autumn 2021 / 2022. I think you will be disappointed on that score.

 

Why would I be disappointed? That's a bit like saying fans would be disappointed if Rovers won! If Corona vanished from the face of the earth tomorrow I'd be dancing in the street!

However there are experts who say we will never be free of it.

I sincerely hope you're right. 

It will be a pragmatic outcome, not one based on belief/optimism though as Brexit was/is.

When the infection rate reduces to near zero the restrictions will go.

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Why oh why must we always argue about whether we can compete? 
 

Scroll back through the first 100 pages and you will see post after post about how comparatives with nations were essential for judging a country on its response. Nay we were told it simply HAD to happen or we will never be able to understand what we did wrong or right. True to form them comparisons have continued for 12 months nearly, and over time we have all come to understand that Britain’s response hasn’t been great. Further thought must go into why but the consensus is agreed. 
 

Now, within those hundreds of pages, I know you will find a dozen or so which absolutely lambasted Britain for not joining the EU procurement scheme. At the time we were told we would be “last in line” and a that our restrictions could go double the time than the rest of Europe’s. As it happened that wasn’t true and, just for once, our government got right. Is that not something to be happy for? Well, clearly not, because now is not the time for comparisons, now is the time to understand this is a GLOBAL effort and that any attempt to place Britain at the top of any lists is simply exceptionalism and downright disgusting. Even within these articles, before citing our vaccine success, there has to be this self-deprecating list of the terribleness of Britain. 
 

The vaccines we are using were made by a multicultural team of scientists, developed abroad or in the AZ case here in our prestigious universities. The team developing them may have been Turkish or Muslim I don’t give a shit. The arms they are going in are British, and our government pinned their hopes in the right place, and for one I am proud of that and happy that British people are first in the line and are seeing the benefits quicker and easier than anywhere else in the world.

My happiness at that is matched by my anger in the rest of our response. The corruption, doggedly poor messaging and downright denial of the truth has saw us oversee 100k deaths. However which way you look at it the response to the pandemic has opened a can of worms and the fallout will last a generation. But why can we only compare ourselves to Europe or other nations when we do so terribly wrong? When we get it right it is not exceptionalism it is simply that we got it right - for one to be judged fairly on their wrongs you must also judge them fairly on their rights. The refusal to do so only discredits the remainder of your points.

 

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2 hours ago, Jimbo said:

! a bit of hypocracy as well, name checking is not something Chaddy or yourself do ?

 

Yes I do. 

But I care about people getting vaccinated as soon as possible she we can return to normal life as soon as possible. 

The Government and his vaccination task force deserved huge credit for buying so many doses so early on. And for not joining the EU procurement scheme at the time which many blast the PM Johnson and Government. It again show we dont need the EU for such schemes as it doesnt work on such a grand scale. You endorsed the EU schemes like this. 

The government for getting the NHS enough time to prepare its plan for Vaccination program and having so many centres already open. Plus NHS management, staff and volunteers. 

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2 hours ago, 47er said:

Why would I be disappointed? That's a bit like saying fans would be disappointed if Rovers won! If Corona vanished from the face of the earth tomorrow I'd be dancing in the street!

However there are experts who say we will never be free of it.

I sincerely hope you're right. 

It will be a pragmatic outcome, not one based on belief/optimism though as Brexit was/is.

When the infection rate reduces to near zero the restrictions will go.

If this is the measure "When the infection rate reduces to near zero the restrictions will go" that will mean lockdown till we reach herd immunity - so probably Autumn or January.

Realistically it will be a political choice based on scientific advice to open up first schools then retail then hospitality much earlier than that once the risk groups are innoculated. I do think large scale events will continue to be banned and social distancing will be in place.

In my view as soon as the schools go back - probably will be delayed until March is my guess - the infection rate will rocket but the hypothesis based on the clinical trials will be that hospitalisations will not rise significantly as the risk groups are innoculated. If in reality hospitalisations do rise significantly back into lockdown we go... and also we will be in a very very very bad place as it will mean the vaccine has been ineffective in protecting the NHS, which will potentially mean lockdown forever/until a vaccine that does work is found.  So hopefully it that doesn't happen!

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So if you had the virus you may be immune for 5 months but you can definately catch it again, carry and transmit it.

Means the vaccine is likely to be the same i.e. only lasts for 5-6 months.

This tells me by the time we have vaccinated the 30 million most vulnerable, they will need to start vaccinating them all again to avoid deaths and lockdown next winter.

Also that everyone who is under 50 and healthy (the other 40 million) are never likely to be vaccinated.

Probably just something we have to live with now. Oh well.

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I'm still puzzled how Blackburn Cathedral will get "thousands and thousands" of people in each day with only a couple of small pay and display car parks near by. The majority will know where the Hub Centre is but getting there is a logistical problem. That said I hope it's a 100% success. 

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14 hours ago, gumboots said:

Actually they cant find any evidence that christmas get togethers caused a real surge. That was down to other factors like the new variant. They think most people thought for themselves and minimised contact at christmas, especially older people. 

COVID-19: Cornwall's pre-Christmas Tier 1 status 'directly linked' to new year surge in cases | UK News | Sky News

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19 hours ago, Gav said:

Central government sourced and ordered the vaccine o2g, we can't hide that fact 👍

Plenty of places around Europe would love to be in our position in terms of vaccinating the population, but I hear you on the centralised schemes. 

🤞🤞

 

I'm not hiding it Gav - funding the development of vaccines and ordering large quantities is one of the few things that the Government has got right. But they had little or no involvement in the vaccination roll out plans.

There was an article in yesterday's Times talking about the relationship between Johnson and Simon Stevens. Stevens has overall control for the roll-out, but the Government realises that Johnson's reputation with the general public relies on it working. A success and most people will probably forget all the cock-ups before, failure and he's in real trouble, but he's not in control (as if he is with anything).

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54 minutes ago, only2garners said:

I'm not hiding it Gav - funding the development of vaccines and ordering large quantities is one of the few things that the Government has got right. But they had little or no involvement in the vaccination roll out plans.

There was an article in yesterday's Times talking about the relationship between Johnson and Simon Stevens. Stevens has overall control for the roll-out, but the Government realises that Johnson's reputation with the general public relies on it working. A success and most people will probably forget all the cock-ups before, failure and he's in real trouble, but he's not in control (as if he is with anything).

Naheen Zakawi is the minister for vaccines roll out, he and a number of downing street civil servants meet with local leaders/Public health teams across the UK on a weekly basis to review on going roll out plans for the vaccine.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/statement-from-vaccine-deployment-minister-nadhim-zahawi-on-vaccine-deployment

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/06/uk-vaccine-minister-vows-massive-uplift-in-number-of-jabs-this-week

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2 hours ago, OldEwoodBlue said:

So if you had the virus you may be immune for 5 months but you can definately catch it again, carry and transmit it.

Means the vaccine is likely to be the same i.e. only lasts for 5-6 months.

This tells me by the time we have vaccinated the 30 million most vulnerable, they will need to start vaccinating them all again to avoid deaths and lockdown next winter.

Also that everyone who is under 50 and healthy (the other 40 million) are never likely to be vaccinated.

Probably just something we have to live with now. Oh well.

 

Yep, being vaccinated doesn't mean you can't still transmit it so any notion that the vaccines on their own are going to resolve this crisis is wishful thinking. If this government with its world beating rollout programme could vaccinate the entire population in the next 24 hours we're still going to have social distancing rules and to have to wear face masks for a long, long time. As football fans, I can't see us being allowed back in stadiums in numbers  until well into the future. 

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