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I mean, look, this is the plan: https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/jan/11/ban-on-exercising-with-others-likely-but-elite-sport-fears-played-down

"talk of banning people exercising with one other person"; "we are seeing large groups and this is unacceptable".

It is very important people don’t try to flex the boundaries around it,” he added. “Don’t say you are exercising when you are really socialising. We really don’t want to have to tighten it further.” - Hancock directly. It is all about no socialising, not about restricting the virus. It is nearly turning me into a conspiracy theorist that they will never let us bloody do it again. 

I am sorry but that is codswallop frankly.

I reckon amongst the working people on here the amount of people who have met with someone for exercise compared to meeting with someone at work isn't even close. It is ludicrous behaviour and it almost makes you want to stand on the street and say no to it but then you are lumped in with the maskless lunatics.

When did common sense depart this nation?

Edited by Dreams of 1995
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35 minutes ago, den said:

and for those who still believe this is all an overreaction...

 

C8F09BAB-E2DC-4821-90E8-81CE52D6C920.jpeg

Hi Den - can you post the link to that so I can get the context. Trying to get my head around it as it says "falls"? I thought it would be "rises"? The way I read it is 2020 had a 13% reduction in deaths compared to previous year? But that doesn't make sense?

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36 minutes ago, den said:

and for those who still believe this is all an overreaction...

 

C8F09BAB-E2DC-4821-90E8-81CE52D6C920.jpeg

Incredible. No doubt we are living in historic times we'd rather never happened. Hopefully we have a vaccine development/manufacturing that can slow this pandemic down fast as we go into 2021.  

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22 minutes ago, joey_big_nose said:

Hi Den - can you post the link to that so I can get the context. Trying to get my head around it as it says "falls"? I thought it would be "rises"? The way I read it is 2020 had a 13% reduction in deaths compared to previous year? But that doesn't make sense?

the chart is by Ed Conway of sky news. This video of his will explain it better.

 

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5 hours ago, oldjamfan1 said:

It really wasn't chaddy. The 'rules' (such as they were) had too many loopholes and ambiguities in them.

A real lockdown would see ports and airports closed and roadblocks in place to stop non-essential travel. All they did was say 'work from home if you can' and stop all social activity. 

Who would run the run blocks? Army? 

Air travel industry has been devastated by this pandemic with all airlines struggling financially. 

Ports need to.open for imports and exports. Would you have stop this happening? Costing more money and jobs. 

3 hours ago, Gav said:

Twice as much traffic on the roads compared to the first lockdown, that tells the story Jim.

Leeds, Bradford and Sheffield traffic dropped to under 30% of normal levels in March, today all are over 75%, people are not listening. 

Leeds Grand Mosque have taken the decision to close to help NHS and try to stop the spread. They are not required to close under the current restrictions, but have taken that step themselves.

Good effort.

 

Traffic will be busy at certain times of the day with people travelling to work and back. 

After 6pm my town centre is like a ghost town and no one around apart few takeaways open. Streets are empty. Cars arent moving after 6pm. 

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55 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Who would run the run blocks? Army? 

Air travel industry has been devastated by this pandemic with all airlines struggling financially. 

Ports need to.open for imports and exports. Would you have stop this happening? Costing more money and jobs. 

 

Traffic will be busy at certain times of the day with people travelling to work and back. 

After 6pm my town centre is like a ghost town and no one around apart few takeaways open. Streets are empty. Cars arent moving after 6pm. 

That's because CLM's centre is shit, tbf 😅

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8 hours ago, joey_big_nose said:

Logically what Boris is suggesting does make sense, although it is unfair. The way the viral spread works is through trasmissions through human interactions. If you reduce interactions you will reduce spread. It doesn't really care if the person is following or not following rules. So what you can do if a few people ignore the rules and are behaving like idiots and creating interactions, is ask for even fewer interations to those who do listen to drive down overall numbers of interactions (and therefore opportunities for spread).

In effect the rule followers "pay" for the infractions of the rule ignorers. It's not fair but it is how epidemiology works. 

Indeed if everyone was incredibly scrupulous about avoiding interactions we wouldn't need as strict a lock down at all. But unfortunately that isn't how society works.

I guess the issue for the government is how do you effectively stop people hell bent on interacting from doing it. Fining those individuals may not really be that effective as they would just do it elsewhere less visibly.... pragmatically asking for more from those who actually do follow the rules (who make up the vast vast majority of those in society) is more effective.

I'd say that right now by increasing restrictions on those following the rules is just tinkering around the edges which wont make nearly as much difference as enforcing the current rules on those who arent following them.

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1 hour ago, den said:

the chart is by Ed Conway of sky news. This video of his will explain it better.

 

Ah I get it, thanks Den :

"deteriorating mortality" = more deaths. So -13% does mean 13% more deaths than previous year which is a huge jump. Pretty grim reading.

AlsoiIt's worth remembering it could have been a lot worse though if the disease was more deadly ("only" a mortality of around 1%) and it does not really impact the under 50s.

Next pandemic could be more deadly and hit children etc and make this pandemic look like a walk in the park. So it's really really key we (and by "we" I mean humanity globally) learn the lessons and never let a new viral outbreak get this out of control again.

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1 hour ago, chaddyrovers said:

Who would run the run blocks? Army? 

Air travel industry has been devastated by this pandemic with all airlines struggling financially. 

Ports need to.open for imports and exports. Would you have stop this happening? Costing more money and jobs. 

 

Traffic will be busy at certain times of the day with people travelling to work and back. 

After 6pm my town centre is like a ghost town and no one around apart few takeaways open. Streets are empty. Cars arent moving after 6pm. 

Strange how everyone in your area is doing the right thing, but the numbers are going up....

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2 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

I was talking Accrington town centre. Most town centres are the same as far as know. 

Even Accy is pretty poor at the best of times. At least it functions, I suppose.

Straddled between the Malls of Blackburn and Burnley, it needs proper rejuvenation.

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35 minutes ago, Mike E said:

Even Accy is pretty poor at the best of times. At least it functions, I suppose.

Straddled between the Malls of Blackburn and Burnley, it needs proper rejuvenation.

You are correct Mike. 

Its does need proper rejuvenation and investment but even after would it worth it tho financially? Depends on the retail shops and outlets that comes to the town? 2 good questions 

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Absolutely abysmal failure in the UK costing tens of thousands of lives.

Obviously, I follow events pretty closely but I can’t believe this if from last May. It’s as if the U.K. government spent the next seven months playing Kerplunk.
 
 
 
M-f3-yEx_mini.jpg
 
Dr Mike Galsworthy
 
@mikegalsworthy
· May 13, 2020
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
1:34
9.1M views
 
 
 
 
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14 hours ago, gumboots said:

Clitheroe was like a ghost town today. I know it was raining but all the high street was dark. There were fewer than a dozen people in the supermarket. Perhaps we're just well behaved here but if so, why are our cases still rising? 

It's because we are always behind the curve - What we are seeing in infections are because of what was happening 7-10 days ago in society, hospitital admissions lag infections by 7-10 days and deaths lag admissions by  a similar amount - We needed to act 3 weeks to a month before we ever did, it's always too little and always too late and has been since day one of this virus.

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5 minutes ago, Jimbo said:

It's because we are always behind the curve - What we are seeing in infections are because of what was happening 7-10 days ago in society, hospitital admissions lag infections by 7-10 days and deaths lag admissions by  a similar amount - We needed to act 3 weeks to a month before we ever did, it's always too little and always too late and has been since day one of this virus.

Sadly true. The next two-three weeks are going to be very very intense as the hospitalisation and deaths keep rising. Literally if we stopped everyone in place and allowed no human  contact it would still happen as the disease has been caught by those who will be hosptialised, is brewing, but just has not been formally tested yet to go into the figures.

I think one of thing that will come out of the pandemic is a real appreciation of that dynamic by politicians and the society at large. You can't wait and see as you can't "see" until it's already too late. You have to lock down first and then figure your way out using a sophisticated track and trace setup. If you wait and see the disease gets into the general population and then you are buggered as it will totally overwhelm track and trace.

That is what the most successful nations (Taiwan, Singapore, NZ, China etc) have done and I am sure will be adopted as standard practice globally in nations with the wherewithal to do it (I would include the UK in that.)

In the US things are concerning though as that kind of proactive approach is never going to pass into legislation (too much concern about "freedom", or conspiracy theories, as opposed to how to solve the problem). So they will be sitting ducks the next time this happens...

 

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15 hours ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

I agree with the traffic part Gav but have to disagree on the final part. I think they are listening but the guidance is neither here nor there.

Employers still expect people in to work, therefore they have to travel. It is far easier to travel by car than public transport in the middle of all of this so even people that might have got the bus or train are now driving in.

Lastly, I would argue the complacency of the rules comes from the contradictory nature of them. As we have said until we are blue in the face - it begs belief they can continue to hark on about the dangers of socialising whilst still saying, with a straight face, work environments, schools and colleges are "covid secure".

As I have heard lads say time and time again: if I am safe to get into a work van, share the same canteen, then I am safe to have a beer with him after work. What can you say to it? Nowt.....he has a point. Even my old lady is telling me not to listen to the restrictions anymore because she's being forced to go into the office every day but told she can't see her son! She's usually as complicit as they come with anything the govt tell her...too much usually I say.

There's guy in the same line of work as yourself writing on the letters page of " The Guardian " today. He's not happy either.

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7 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

There's guy in the same line of work as yourself writing on the letters page of " The Guardian " today. He's not happy either.

https://www.theguardian.com/global/2021/jan/11/construction-sites-are-aiding-spread-of-covid

I saw it too.

He has a point frankly.

What is even more disgusting now is the number of developers who, upon realising the govt never truly shut construction down in March, are not recognising Covid-19 as a reason for the site to have shut down for 4-6 weeks back in Spring 2020. They are holding main contractors to the original programme, filing for LADS and as such the main-contractors are adjudicating with the subcontractors over minor issues. It is getting messy in a couple of my schemes. I would urge it is not all, just some, and a growing some at that!

The second is that because people are hearing of others being hit with these LADs they are now 'accelerating' programme at their own cost. This means increased labour, less chance of social distancing and more chance of spread.

Construction being a mens game we don't talk about it. The lads get asked to wear a mask and they give the site manager the vs on the way out; the site manager doesn't want to be seen as "that guy" so he lets it slide. A cultural thing but worrying if you live with your elderly relatives and have to work on site.

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I know theres still some work to do to understand how transmissable people are after being  vaccinated and because of this the government are likely to keep restrictions in place however I think they really need to rethink this in some cases. Care homes for example I think we need to reopen to visitors as soon as all the residents in that care home have been vaccinated. My granda was taken into hospital at the start of December and was released straight into a care home a couple of weeks ago. My nana hasnt seen him since he was carted away in an ambulance but both have had their covid vaccines. My great uncle in the same care home hasnt seen anyone since March. I've always talked about risk but surely the risk of social isolation and loneliness in the vaccinated elderly now outweighs the risk posed by covid? 

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5 minutes ago, RoverDom said:

I know theres still some work to do to understand how transmissable people are after being  vaccinated and because of this the government are likely to keep restrictions in place however I think they really need to rethink this in some cases. Care homes for example I think we need to reopen to visitors as soon as all the residents in that care home have been vaccinated. My granda was taken into hospital at the start of December and was released straight into a care home a couple of weeks ago. My nana hasnt seen him since he was carted away in an ambulance but both have had their covid vaccines. My great uncle in the same care home hasnt seen anyone since March. I've always talked about risk but surely the risk of social isolation and loneliness in the vaccinated elderly now outweighs the risk posed by covid? 

There's another letter in todays Guardian on this subject.. The gist of it is -  A woman in Wales has had both injections. She asked a nurse if it's OK to visit her daughter in three weeks time. The nurse replies " The Government advice is no ". When the woman asked why, the nurse said " Well, the vaccine may not work for you ".

Where does that leave us all ?

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