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15 minutes ago, Hasta said:

If the vaccine doesn't stop you getting re-infected, doesn't stop transmission and only stops you getting seriously ill or hospitalised (and is only 90% effective), then this is a bit of a non-story in the Mail isn't it?

 

I'm not sure the experts know the answers to any of those questions yet, or fully understand how the vaccine will work in practice. 

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9 minutes ago, joey_big_nose said:

It was a good point- I'm in this discussion to be informed, not right. I don't really get why so many people seem to being right  on an anonymous messageboard.

So your view, if we are in the same page as you say, is once those who are driving hospitalisations are vaccinated we will open up (with some form of social distancing in place, obviously)? So some time April to June?

I don't know. I would await the returns on infection rates rather than assume anything.

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26 minutes ago, 47er said:

What are you talking about? I'm talking about throwing in car crashes, driving in ice and being hit by a bus crossing the road!!

Whataboutery---the last refuge of the scoundrel!

Entirely relevant in this context. You were saying how I should be extremely worried about catching covid, I'm saying it's on a par with other stuff that I dont worry about. It's not whatabouterry in the slightest it was in there to provide a comparative. 

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26 minutes ago, jim mk2 said:

That’s your most bizarre statement yet, and you’ve made quite a few

I really dont understand why there is this drive to make me shit myself at the prospect of catching something that is statistically unlikely to do me any long lasting harm. I'm doing my bit to protect others and the NHS.

As I say, I'm not losing any sleep at the thought of catching it but you are more than welcome to. 

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9 minutes ago, 47er said:

I don't know. I would await the returns on infection rates rather than assume anything.

Ah okay so we are not on the same page then, as I am saying we don't need infections to be low if those who will drive hosptialisations are innoculated.

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Whataboutery would usually start with "what about" not "I am concerned with ICU being full more than I am Covid".

There's a culture of wanting to show a man up on here, driven by an insatiable attitude to be right. Chill yourself a little.

The answer to the problem is and always has been a vaccine and subsequent built up immunity. Once the demographic of people more likely to require serious medical intervention receive that vaccine, which could then be introduced as regularly as the flu vaccine is, then there is absolutely no reason why we should have to continue living under the current set of restrictions. A degree of normality can return. I think the idea of eradicating the virus is nonsense, it is something we will have to learn to live with, and the overwhelming majority of people can and have lived through infection. A flu can wipe out an otherwise healthy person that is within that vulnerable demographic in the same way Covid-19 can. Unfortunately this is without doubt a worse form of respiratory illness in comparison, and has far reaching affects to a broader section of the population, but life will and has to move on.

I would urge people within the vulnerable category to get the vaccine because if you think the nation is going to continue sitting on its hands whilst countries like China report record quarterly growth you are sorely mistaken. The whole idea of lockdown was so the NHS doesn't get overwhelmed; once the people who contribute to that process are inoculated the risk of that happening is reduced. People will probably continue to die of Covid-19 forever, but what we can't afford is 1000+ a day forever and the ICU wards being full.

I'd say it is a simple argument made by Dom and co, one that has been convoluted into talking about whether or not you fear flu over it out of simply a will to argue.

 

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And to add. A bad flu season can kill 20k a year, which is about 100 a day over 6 months (I'm not sure who long flu season lasts). If the covid vaccine keeps deaths at or below the level of deaths from flu is there any justification for continued restrictions? 

 

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1 hour ago, RoverDom said:

And to add. A bad flu season can kill 20k a year, which is about 100 a day over 6 months (I'm not sure who long flu season lasts). If the covid vaccine keeps deaths at or below the level of deaths from flu is there any justification for continued restrictions? 

 

Maybe there's a case for introducing restrictions in the event of a particularly bad flu season and get the deaths below 20000?

You keep bringing flu up and I keep telling you there's no equivalence. We're talking over 100000 deaths in less than a year

and its still killing around 1500 a day. You'd have to go back to just after World War One to find a flu figure like that.

Over and out!

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21 minutes ago, 47er said:

Maybe there's a case for introducing restrictions in the event of a particularly bad flu season and get the deaths below 20000?

You keep bringing flu up and I keep telling you there's no equivalence. We're talking over 100000 deaths in less than a year

and its still killing around 1500 a day. You'd have to go back to just after World War One to find a flu figure like that.

Over and out!

Maybe there is and that's a whole new debate in itself, but there will still come a point where you have to pick an acceptable level of death in society. 

They're both respiratory illnesses that are spread in very similar ways, the outcomes can be very different but theres atleast a comparison in stopping the way they spread. The other reason theres currently no equivalence is because theres a flu jab preventing flu from killing thousands. 

You also keep referring back to pre-vaccine conditions which is missing the point. Me saying "if the vaccine reduces covid to a similar death rate as flu then xyz" the counter argument "its killed 100,000 in less than a year" is totally irrelevant.

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1 hour ago, Hoochie Bloochie Mama said:

 

Brilliant!

Bloody hell I thought I rid myself of you a while back

We were talking about the lifting of social distancing, lockdown restrictions and the other consequences of the pandemic. In typical blueboy fashion you have tried to score a cheap and easy point but in doing so have spectacularly missed the context and point of the post. In fact, you missing the context of posts has become a regular occasion.

We have been told for nearly 12 months now the answer to a pandemic like this is a vaccine induced herd immunity. I didn't come up with that answer blueboy, or try and say other people were wrong, I simply copied what the likes of WHO and our own Scientific Officers/Health officers have been repeating week after week. I didn't try and show anyone up, tell anyone they are wrong but simply repeat we are told.

Vaccine > Herd Immunity > Gradual lifting of restrictions

Your insatiable appetite for oneupmanship has once again lead you down the wrong path

 

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24 minutes ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

Bloody hell I thought I rid myself of you a while back

We were talking about the lifting of social distancing, lockdown restrictions and the other consequences of the pandemic. In typical blueboy fashion you have tried to score a cheap and easy point but in doing so have spectacularly missed the context and point of the post. In fact, you missing the context of posts has become a regular occasion.

We have been told for nearly 12 months now the answer to a pandemic like this is a vaccine induced herd immunity. I didn't come up with that answer blueboy, or try and say other people were wrong, I simply copied what the likes of WHO and our own Scientific Officers/Health officers have been repeating week after week. I didn't try and show anyone up, tell anyone they are wrong but simply repeat we are told.

Vaccine > Herd Immunity > Gradual lifting of restrictions

Your insatiable appetite for oneupmanship has once again lead you down the wrong path

 

 

3 hours ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

Chill yourself a little.

Relax there Dreams lad, you're getting a bit upset and unpleasant today, in classic Dreams fashion. Take your own advice and chill yourself a little. You take yourself, and your own opinions, far too seriously. It's just a MB for having a bit of a laugh. Try it.

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23 minutes ago, Hoochie Bloochie Mama said:

 

 

Relax there Dreams lad, you're getting a bit upset and unpleasant today, in classic Dreams fashion. Take your own advice and chill yourself a little. You take yourself, and your own opinions, far too seriously. It's just a MB for having a bit of a laugh. Try it.

Nothing in that post was unpleasant - stop playing the victim

If I need a laugh I only have to put the bait out and you or the rest of the Dreams' fan club will come running, don't worry

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1 minute ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

Nothing in that post was unpleasant - stop playing the victim

If I need a laugh I only have to put the bait out and you or the rest of the Dreams' fan club will come running, don't worry

'I thought I'd rid myself of you a while back' isn't a nice thing to say really now is it? Some might say it's unpleasant. Maybe we have different standards.

'bait out' - lovely arrogance. 

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Sainsbury's announced last week that shoppers must wear face masks. Just got back from the local store and I'm disgusted at more non compliance but Sainsbury's aren't doing anything to stop it.

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1 minute ago, Cherry Blue said:

Sainsbury's announced last week that shoppers must wear face masks. Just got back from the local store and I'm disgusted at more non compliance but Sainsbury's aren't doing anything to stop it.

The measures are going to get tougher in the coming weeks at supermarkets CB, not sure if it’s being driven by central government or local, but I hear it’s going to get tougher and rightly so. 

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I was out for excercise with the wife this afternoon and an elderly lady who we didn’t know, asked us if we’d had our jabs yet. She said she couldn’t have one because a flu jab had once caused her arm to get septic. We both said to her that she should probably talk to her doctor about that. She then changed her story to her not believing in putting all this stuff into people’s bodies.

Her plan was to do nothing, allow everyone else to get vaccinated, thus ridding the country of the virus meaning she would be safe. This lady came across as being fully in charge of her faculties, I don’t think she was suffering from any kind of mental problems. Hopefully someone, somewhere will talk a bit of sense in her.

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