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Here in the Ribble Valley we got off to a flyer. Over 80s mostly done and the rest scheduled for this week. Care homes all done by GPs getting out and doing it. Then we ran out of vaccine. No more till Thursday

 

Edited by gumboots
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5 hours ago, speeeeeeedie said:

Getting the vaccine is an individual choice. That choice though has ramifications to society as a whole. 

I believe there will be a "vaccine passport" in reality whether the Government support one or not. For a start you wouldn't want to be on a plane with some passengers who hadn't had the jab would you?

And logically, I'd feel the same way about public transport, pubs and restaurants and a whole lot more.

So, I think the anti-vaccers will find it difficult to live a normal life without being able to prove they have had the jab.

We had that situation with pre-school and nursery school didn't we? Parents who wouldn't allow their infant children the usual vaccines? 

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9 minutes ago, 47er said:

I believe there will be a "vaccine passport" in reality whether the Government support one or not. For a start you wouldn't want to be on a plane with some passengers who hadn't had the jab would you?

And logically, I'd feel the same way about public transport, pubs and restaurants and a whole lot more.

So, I think the anti-vaccers will find it difficult to live a normal life without being able to prove they have had the jab.

We had that situation with pre-school and nursery school didn't we? Parents who wouldn't allow their infant children the usual vaccines? 

Tony Blair said the same thing a week or two back. He said having the vaccine will be your route to Liberty.

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4 hours ago, gumboots said:

Here in the Ribble Valley we got off to a flyer. Over 80s mostly done and the rest scheduled for this week. Care homes all done by GPs getting out and doing it. Then we ran out of vaccine. No more till Thursday

 

Oh dear... I guess that explains the national deceleration...

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1 hour ago, den said:

Tony Blair said the same thing a week or two back. He said having the vaccine will be your route to Liberty.

I guess that's contingent on the vaccine being effective at stopping transmission rather than just disease, which isn't proved yet. No point giving 'passports' if the individuals are still infectious. 

My personal feeling though is the vaccines will ultimately be proved to significantly reduce transmission, we are just waiting for the data to bear that out. I don't think there are many diseases out there which continue to infect post vaccination. But until it's proved the "vaccine passport" idea seems a bit of non-starter.

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A bunch of news stories have come out of Israel saying a single Pfizer dose isn't effective as hoped. 

https://www.timesofisrael.com/israels-virus-czar-says-1st-dose-less-effective-than-pfizer-indicated-report/

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/19/single-covid-vaccine-dose-in-israel-less-effective-than-we-hoped

However, as I understand it, again it comes back to what you are measuring with the effectiveness %s. They are defined as how much it reduces the chances of catching any COVID, not how it reduces your chances of becoming seriously ill from COVID and being hopitalised which is the key metric we are trying to control through the vaccine at the moment. If the vaccine reduces what would have been a serious illness to mild symptoms that is a huge win but is lost in the reporting. Plus Israel seem to be reporting this data after only a two week lag after dose, which is less than the three week cycle which Pfizer recommend to work up immunity. We need to wait and see how things develop in Israel and in the UK in terms of hospital admissions to see how serious an issue this is.

Also - in my totally uneducated opinion - I think the pharmaceutical companies need to update their trial approach in a couple of ways in readiness for the next global pandemic.

1) All crisis driven vaccine development should publish data on single dose regimes. It's obvious (at least with hindsight) with 10 billion people to vaccinate a single dose approach is going to be highly attractive to vaccinate as many people as quickly as possible.  Pfizer didn't do this and it's a big gap in their data. 

2) Metrics should be published on prevention of serious illnesses, not just the prevention of any instance of the disease, as that is the immediate critical priority for countries trying to protect their health infrastructure.

Edited by joey_big_nose
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America under Biden is about to take this seriously.

100 million to be vaccinated in 100 days.

If lndia which is the largest vaccine producer in the world follows Biden, there are 1.3 billion Indians to be prioritised.

I don't know how much of this stuff is actually manufactured in the UK.

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15 hours ago, gumboots said:

Here in the Ribble Valley we got off to a flyer. Over 80s mostly done and the rest scheduled for this week. Care homes all done by GPs getting out and doing it. Then we ran out of vaccine. No more till Thursday

 

There are a couple of realities here. Firstly it's clear that delivery has been patchy and I presume that some centres have been more efficient than others, which has meant that some areas have dealt with all over 80s and care homes, whilst others still have many to do. Secondly, the supply of vaccines is not as good as was hoped. Much of that is that we are not getting as many vaccines as we could handle but some is also the logistics of getting the vaccines out, many of which needs specialist vehicles.

My wife's surgery in Bamber Bridge had their first batch of 1,000 Pfizer vaccines on 29/12 and the second on 7/1. Since then they have had some Oxford vaccine, which was used for care homes and anyone housebound. They have just had a few more which they will issue tomorrow to any over 80s who missed the first round (couldn't be contacted). By tomorrow night all over 80s, all care homes in the patch and some over 75s will have been vaccinated. I'm now pretty sure that, like gumboots in Clitheroe, there will not be much more as the NHS are clearly prioritising what vaccines they have to those areas who are behind us, which is fair enough although very frustrating.

I would really like to know how many vaccines these mass centres are doing a day - I know the Bristol centre was doing 500 a day at the start, which was terrible. My wife's small centre was doing 350 a day with just 3 vaccinators at a time. I assume there was an element of gearing up there and would hope the numbers are now significantly better.

Given the issues with vaccine numbers it seems to me ludicrous that there are plans to trial 24 hour opening at mass vaccination centres. Up and down the country there are centres patiently waiting to get more vaccine and it is deemed more important to be able to offer appointments at 3am to old and vulnerable people?

11 hours ago, Gav said:

PHE say 4.2m people have received the first does of the vaccine.

Light at the end of the tunnel. 

The global figure sounds good but what it doesn't say is that for the last 3 days to Monday we were only doing some 200K a day after passing well over 300K at the end of last week. At this week's rate we are doing half what we need to do to hit the mid February target. Let's hope yesterday's figures are better but I'm not confident given that we are not expecting any more Pfizer vaccine until the end of the month and AZ say they will only get up to 2m doses a week in mid Feb.

Had my wife's surgery been able to get 1,000 doses a week consistently they would have been able to finish all over 18s in their area by early June.

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1 hour ago, only2garners said:

 

The global figure sounds good but what it doesn't say is that for the last 3 days to Monday we were only doing some 200K a day after passing well over 300K at the end of last week.

Had my wife's surgery been able to get 1,000 doses a week consistently they would have been able to finish all over 18s in their area by early June.

Its an issue with supply o2g, I'm sure your wife will agree.

Nobody is going to complain about the supply chain, they're going as fast as they can, staff are ready to administer the vaccine, we just can't produce enough, fast enough.

But despite the dip over the last 3 days, its a tremendous effort to have vaccinated over 4million, a relief for many across the country.

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It's not just shortage of vaccines though. I was repeating the report on Today this morning by a vaccine specialist from Bath University who said there were problems with the supply chain as well as a shortage of vaccine

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19 minutes ago, RoverDom said:

Was there something about Pfizer revamping their Belgium factory. Assume short term disruptions for increased production long term? 

I think Pfizer is a relatively small part of our vaccine delivery though? Isn't it mostly AZ/Oxford? Anyone know what the split is?

Really hope we get back up to 300k+ Tuesday and today.

Also wonder if government will start publishing stats on #/% of people who were vaccinated 3+ weeks ago who end up in hospital admissions (with the expectation it's a tiny number). That's the key info that should decide if/how we open up.

The key formulae is to compare that number to the general % of admissions of non vaccinated people in the same age range and expect it to be 90%+ less.

Edited by joey_big_nose
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This is what the UK has ordered: -

Oxford/Astra Zeneca 100m

Pfizer/BioNtech 40m

Moderna 7m

Novavax 60m

Valneva 60m

GSK/Sanofi 60m

Janssen 30m

357m in total. As we know the first 3 are approved, although we are not due to get any Moderna vaccine until March at the earliest. The Novavax vaccine is not far from approval but i don't know anything about delivery plans. The other 3 are some way away from approval.

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15 hours ago, 47er said:

I believe there will be a "vaccine passport" in reality whether the Government support one or not. For a start you wouldn't want to be on a plane with some passengers who hadn't had the jab would you?

If you have had the jab, and if it is effective, why would you care?

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33 minutes ago, joey_big_nose said:

I think Pfizer is a relatively small part of our vaccine delivery though? Isn't it mostly AZ/Oxford? Anyone know what the split is?

Not sure on the split but I did hear the oxford one is a slower ramp up, not sure of the reasons mind.

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2 hours ago, Hasta said:

If you have had the jab, and if it is effective, why would you care?

........ because the vaccines don't protect you 100% from infection and do not stop you passing the virus on to others?

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Well, at least she's honest they got it all wrong back in March - though she wouldn't say so in public

Mini-Trump doing his usual in PMQs today and deflecting the question of why he over-ruled the home secretary by accusing Starmer of "playing politics"

Doesn't the twerp realise he's in the politics business and the opposition's job is to hold the government to account?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-55733357

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1 hour ago, Jimbo said:

To be fair, Pritti Patel didn't want to close the borders to save lives, she just wanted to keep foreigners out.

Ironic isn't it? This crisis has been handled by Tory politicians who have spent the past 5 or more years campaigning for the UK to have tighter borders, but failed to act when we needed that most!

Meanwhile another world-class effort from the UK government. 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-55738174

 

 

 

 

 

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4 hours ago, Hasta said:

If you have had the jab, and if it is effective, why would you care?

Well exactly, I dont stress about people who haven't had their MMR jab. Nor demand they be banned from boarding an plane

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