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11 minutes ago, den said:

Govt immediately rejected it. 3 months will stay.

The BMA wrote to to the govt and scientists. Did they even read the letter or consider seriously what they had to say?

Its a cost/benefit analysis. Is it better to vaccinate as many people as possible to say 80% protection (after 3 weeks of immunity) or half that many to say 95%? On the face of it the government/phe maximising strategy seems the best to me.

Though obviously BMA know what they're doing (as do PHE) so will read their proposal with interest.

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Personally I would prefer those ahead of me in the queue to be vaccinated properly and effectively and wait a bit longer for mine. If we wait 12 weeks for the second dose there's no guarantee that won't affect the efficacy of the overall vaccine. 

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11 minutes ago, joey_big_nose said:

Its a cost/benefit analysis. Is it better to vaccinate as many people as possible to say 80% protection (after 3 weeks of immunity) or half that many to say 95%? On the face of it the government/phe maximising strategy seems the best to me.

Though obviously BMA know what they're doing (as do PHE) so will read their proposal with interest.

BMA's point is that they don't know what efficacy is after 6 weeks of the 1st dose of Pfizer. There's no data. It's a gamble that no other country is take, and those countries face the same isuuez the UK does. WHO recommends no longer than 4 weeks gap. Pfizer themselves have said there is no data to support a longer gap than 3 weeks. 

There can be no proper cost/benefit analysis when no-one knows the facts, especially as lives are at risk, thousands of lives potentially. 

Edited by Hoochie Bloochie Mama
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28 minutes ago, Hoochie Bloochie Mama said:

BMA's point is that they don't know what efficacy is after 6 weeks of the 1st dose of Pfizer. There's no data. It's a gamble that no other country is take, and those countries face the same isuuez the UK does. WHO recommends no longer than 4 weeks gap. Pfizer themselves have said there is no data to support a longer gap than 3 weeks. 

There can be no proper cost/benefit analysis when no-one knows the facts, especially as lives are at risk, thousands of lives potentially. 

Well UK and US are the only western countries that have really got going on vaccinations. My guess is we will see most countries switch to a single dose approach as the realities of the limited supply situation come home. France are already extending.

Also we will generate data as we go, in terms of monitoring anti bodies, post vaccination infections and admissions to hospital so if the strategy needs to be reprioritised it can be.

I get why the BMA have said what they said, there isn't data, but it seems a reasonable risk to take when the alternative, radically reducing the amount of people vaccinated, will also lead to higher death rates.

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https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/22/foreign-nhs-workers-risk-being-denied-covid-vaccine-england?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

Wholly predictable,

Utterly contemptible.

Memo to the UK. 

Foreigners are humans who can infect Brits. That is the sort of messaging Tories understand...

Malta is vaccinating everybody including illegal migrants. In fact 3% of our total Covid cases have been in people we rescued from the Med.

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1 hour ago, philipl said:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/22/foreign-nhs-workers-risk-being-denied-covid-vaccine-england?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

Wholly predictable,

Utterly contemptible.

Memo to the UK. 

Foreigners are humans who can infect Brits. That is the sort of messaging Tories understand...

Malta is vaccinating everybody including illegal migrants. In fact 3% of our total Covid cases have been in people we rescued from the Med.

It just seems like a beauracratic mixup... as the article itself states :

"The Department of Health and Social Care (DHSC) said that having an NHS number should never be a precondition for the coronavirus jab. This is understood to be echoed by NHS England."

"A DHSC spokesperson said: “Vaccines for coronavirus will be offered to every adult living in the UK free of charge, regardless of immigration status. While NHS numbers form an important part of the administrative process, they are not a precondition for being offered a vaccine."

 

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4 minutes ago, joey_big_nose said:

It just seems like a beauracratic mixup... as the article itself states :

"The Department of Health and Social Care (DHSC) said that having an NHS number should never be a precondition for the coronavirus jab. This is understood to be echoed by NHS England."

"A DHSC spokesperson said: “Vaccines for coronavirus will be offered to every adult living in the UK free of charge, regardless of immigration status. While NHS numbers form an important part of the administrative process, they are not a precondition for being offered a vaccine."

 

 

So it's another cock-up to add to all the others. As Philip said, entirely predictable 

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1 hour ago, philipl said:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/22/foreign-nhs-workers-risk-being-denied-covid-vaccine-england?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

Wholly predictable,

Utterly contemptible.

Memo to the UK. 

Foreigners are humans who can infect Brits. That is the sort of messaging Tories understand...

Malta is vaccinating everybody including illegal migrants. In fact 3% of our total Covid cases have been in people we rescued from the Med.

look like the story isn't true as Joey has posted. 

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It's odd then that this was raised on CNN this morning in an interview with a UK Professor who said that Doctors without NHS numbers were having difficulties in getting the vaccines. This was without prompting by the interviewer.

 

Unfortunately it's exactly the kind of thing that the despicable Tories would do under the guidance of Patel.

 

I notice that there wasn't any issues for their billionaire backer, Rupert Murdoch, getting a jab.

Edited by Jimbo
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Here we have examples of care home staff refusing to have the vaccine.

https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-concerns-grow-over-number-of-carers-turning-down-vaccine-12195852

I mentioned this a while back, you'd be surprised just how many frontline NHS staff in particular refuse to have a flu jab, yet flu can kill patients in hospital, its reckless.

I believe in choice, nobody should be forced to have the vaccine, unless you're working in a sector where you could kill the very people we are trying to protect.

It should be compulsory in these circumstances.

 

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46 minutes ago, jim mk2 said:

 

So it's another cock-up to add to all the others. As Philip said, entirely predictable 

Yes I agree it's a cockup. I think Phillipl meant it was intentional from what he wrote? Read it that way anyway.

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54 minutes ago, Gav said:

Here we have examples of care home staff refusing to have the vaccine.

https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-concerns-grow-over-number-of-carers-turning-down-vaccine-12195852

I mentioned this a while back, you'd be surprised just how many frontline NHS staff in particular refuse to have a flu jab, yet flu can kill patients in hospital, its reckless.

I believe in choice, nobody should be forced to have the vaccine, unless you're working in a sector where you could kill the very people we are trying to protect.

It should be compulsory in these circumstances.

 

I wonder if there would be legal back up on safety grounds, for companies to tell employees who won’t have the vaccine, that they can no longer work at the company?

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15 minutes ago, den said:

I wonder if there would be legal back up on safety grounds, for companies to tell employees who won’t have the vaccine, that they can no longer work at the company?

Its a good point, who knows.

I don't see compulsory vaccine happening den, I believe it should be part of the job spec in certain circumstances.

 

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15 minutes ago, Gav said:

Its a good point, who knows.

I don't see compulsory vaccine happening den, I believe it should be part of the job spec in certain circumstances.

 

I don't see why it couldn't be made a pre-requisite for certain jobs. Much the same as I can't go on site without PPE & a site induction. 

You're not forcing someone to have the jab, you're saying that without it you can't work in certain sectors. Sounds harsh, yes, but we've got to find some way of getting out of this mess.

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45 minutes ago, den said:

I wonder if there would be legal back up on safety grounds, for companies to tell employees who won’t have the vaccine, that they can no longer work at the company?

In the article is says the Care Home boss now has it written in new employees contracts that they must have the jab. 

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I just heard on the radio that the Israeli Government is wiping it's hands of the Palestinians in the Occupied Lands regarding the vaccine. They can get their own. It's a bit like saying to the prisoners in a jail - " Get your own vaccine lads, it's nothing to do with us ".

Less Palestinians I suppose - what's not to like if you're the Israeli government ?

It's not not all bad news  though, I see Jewish leaders in the UK are planning to use Holocaust Day to " focus on the persecution of the Uighur Muslims in China  " !  I know, you couldn't make it up.. How about looking at persecutions nearer home guys.

On another angle it didn't take long for yesterdays story of mass attendance at that Jewish wedding to become a non story did it ? Absolutely nothing about it in my paper today.

Edited by Tyrone Shoelaces
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9 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

just heard on the radio that the Israeli Government is wiping it's hands of the Palestinians in the Occupied Lands regarding the vaccine.

From the Guardian:-

Asked why Israel is not vaccinating Palestinians in the country and under occupation in the West Bank – despite the United Nations saying it is their legal obligation to ensure they have access, and pressure from senior rabbis to act – Edelstein says it is prioritising its own citizens.

As far as the vaccination is concerned, it’s the Israel obligation first and foremost to its citizens. They pay taxes for that don’t they, but having said that I do remember that it is our interest – not our legal obligation – to make sure Palestinians get the vaccine. That they won’t have Covid-19 spreading.

First of all, we could also look to the Oslo agreements where it says loud and clear that Palestinians have to take care of their own health. If it’s the responsibility of the Israeli health minister to take care of the Palestinians, what exactly is the responsibility of the Palestinian health minister - to take care of the dolphins in the Mediterranean?

When the Palestinians turned to us, I authorised passing some vaccines to those medical teams who directly work with corona patients in the Palestinian authority and as you can here in this interview, its not because I think that we have a legal obligation, its because they’re doctors and nurses and they [hadn’t got] the vaccine at this stage.

 

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1 minute ago, Hoochie Bloochie Mama said:

From the Guardian:-

Asked why Israel is not vaccinating Palestinians in the country and under occupation in the West Bank – despite the United Nations saying it is their legal obligation to ensure they have access, and pressure from senior rabbis to act – Edelstein says it is prioritising its own citizens.

As far as the vaccination is concerned, it’s the Israel obligation first and foremost to its citizens. They pay taxes for that don’t they, but having said that I do remember that it is our interest – not our legal obligation – to make sure Palestinians get the vaccine. That they won’t have Covid-19 spreading.

First of all, we could also look to the Oslo agreements where it says loud and clear that Palestinians have to take care of their own health. If it’s the responsibility of the Israeli health minister to take care of the Palestinians, what exactly is the responsibility of the Palestinian health minister - to take care of the dolphins in the Mediterranean?

When the Palestinians turned to us, I authorised passing some vaccines to those medical teams who directly work with corona patients in the Palestinian authority and as you can here in this interview, its not because I think that we have a legal obligation, its because they’re doctors and nurses and they [hadn’t got] the vaccine at this stage.

 

Talk is cheap - lets see what happens in reality.

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3 minutes ago, Hoochie Bloochie Mama said:

Eh? I wasn't disagreeing with you, I was highlighting the callous shite the Israeli Govt had come out with to justify their actions. 

I know, people complain that the world expects the Israelis to behave more like a civilised nation than a gang of thugs. I'm constantly amazed that a people who were treated with appalling brutality in the recent past think it's Ok to treat another people with appalling brutality. You'd expect better.

Edited by Tyrone Shoelaces
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5 hours ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

I just heard on the radio that the Israeli Government is wiping it's hands of the Palestinians in the Occupied Lands regarding the vaccine. They can get their own. It's a bit like saying to the prisoners in a jail - " Get your own vaccine lads, it's nothing to do with us ".

Less Palestinians I suppose - what's not to like if you're the Israeli government ?

It's not not all bad news  though, I see Jewish leaders in the UK are planning to use Holocaust Day to " focus on the persecution of the Uighur Muslims in China  " !  I know, you couldn't make it up.. How about looking at persecutions nearer home guys.

On another angle it didn't take long for yesterdays story of mass attendance at that Jewish wedding to become a non story did it ? Absolutely nothing about it in my paper today.

That's is ****ing outrageous. I mean absolutely incredibly low.

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