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Just now, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

I agree. You'd think that self interest alone would encourage the Israelis to share the vaccine with their neighbours.

I read into it and the full quotes from the Israeli health minister on Andrew Marr suggests they will vaccinate but only once everyone in Israel (including the small number of Israeli Muslims) are vaccinated first.

To approach it in that way does seem like an enormous PR own goal, as well as essentially morally wrong. But Israel's been doing that for decades.

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8 hours ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

I know, people complain that the world expects the Israelis to behave more like a civilised nation than a gang of thugs. I'm constantly amazed that a people who were treated with appalling brutality in the recent past think it's Ok to treat another people with appalling brutality. You'd expect better.

Just waiting for Gav to dive in with his thoughts on this appalling racism. Or does that make me anti-Semitic?

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21 minutes ago, 47er said:

Just waiting for Gav to dive in with his thoughts on this appalling racism. Or does that make me anti-Semitic?

Is it anti-semitic to point out that Jewish people are discriminating against non-Jews?

This has to be the Labour party's fault .... according to Mr GoldFish it always is

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1 hour ago, 47er said:

Just waiting for Gav to dive in with his thoughts on this appalling racism. Or does that make me anti-Semitic?

Saying things like Israel should be wiped off the map is anti-Semitic.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-36802075

Criticising government policy is not.

I’ve got a couple of books that might help you understand the difference 😃

Sorry, couldn’t resist.

38 minutes ago, jim mk2 said:

Is it anti-semitic to point out that Jewish people are discriminating against non-Jews?

This has to be the Labour party's fault .... according to Mr GoldFish it always

Of course not, but liking a post linking the killing of Georgie Floyd to Israel is, you couldn’t see anything wrong with that, RLB had done nothing wrong you told us.

Thankfully the Labour Party could, it’s racist.

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3 minutes ago, Gav said:

Of course not, but liking a post linking the killing of Georgie Floyd to Israel is, you couldn’t  see anything wrong with that. 

When? Be careful about making statements you can't back up. 

Here's some background reading for you about the racism in your party.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/oct/07/tories-islamophobia-proud-muslims-scapegoat

 

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11 minutes ago, jim mk2 said:

When? Be careful about making statements you can't back up. 

Here's some background reading for you about the racism in your party.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/oct/07/tories-islamophobia-proud-muslims-scapegoat

 

I've been waiting and waiting for Gav"s comments on Baroness Warsi's damning criticisms of Tory Party Islamaphobia "at every level".

Alas I wait in vain!.

 

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12 minutes ago, jim mk2 said:

When? Be careful about making statements you can't back up.

 

It’s still in the thread where you posted it Jim, very public.

Do you still believe she shouldn’t have been fired for liking Maxine Peakes tweet?

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6 minutes ago, 47er said:

I've been waiting and waiting for Gav"s comments on Baroness Warsi's damning criticisms of Tory Party Islamaphobia "at every level".

Alas I wait in vain!.

 

This is a Covid thread 47er....

Have the EHRC found enough evidence to investigate the Tories? 

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3 minutes ago, Gav said:

Have the EHRC found enough evidence to investigate the Tories? 

The EHRC dropped its plans to launch an investigation because it said it does not think it is proportionate to carry out its own inquiry after the Conservatives committed to an independent investigation looking into complaints of discrimination over “religion or belief and significantly Islam”.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2020/may/12/equalities-watchdog-drops-plan-for-tory-islamophobia-inquiry

So the EHRC backed off to let the Tories investigate themselves. Hey and guess what, the Tory inquiry has been swept under the carpet.

Your racist party is corrupt. 

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11 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

Ireland breaks ranks to admit 'real problem' over EU's struggling coronavirus vaccine plan

Ireland breaks ranks to admit 'real problem' over EU's struggling coronavirus vaccine plan (msn.com)

Thankfully the UK didn't join the EU procurement scheme

Let me spell it out for you..

Procurement means buying.

The EU is saving billions and has vastly better legal terms. The procurement scheme has done what it is set up to do.

Once the stuff is bought it is over to the people who need the stuff to do the logistics and the suppliers to supply. This is where the problems are.

The free market system is breaking down and the States are going to have to requisition vaccine production facilities from companies which failed with covid.

 

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This is going to get ugly.

From Politico:
As part of the Advanced Purchase Agreement (APA) with the EU, AstraZeneca got a “three-digit million-euro amount,” according to one official. That money, EU money, was meant to pay for production capacity being reserved, and for advance production of the coronavirus vaccine so it could be distributed as soon as approval was granted. The APA was concluded in August; by the end of October, the Commission had collected all orders and passed them on on behalf of member states: We’re talking 300 million vaccine doses overall, with an option for an additional 100 million.

What Kyriakides and the EU want to know is quite simple: what the problem is. The options are quite limited in Brussels’ view: Either the advance production hasn’t happened, or vaccines have been produced but sold to someone else that perhaps agreed to pay more. Either way, the company has opted to not honor an agreement made.

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2 hours ago, philipl said:

Procurement means buying.

Is procurement, especially on this scale, not also about supply chain management as well? From your second post it seems like there could possibly have been a failure there?

Your second post also says that the vaccine may have gone to someone willing to pay more so could that not be a consequence of EU haggling a low price and stringent legal protection? If you had something that literally everyone in the world wanted why would you sell to the ones wanting the lowest price and harshest T&Cs? 

I dont claim to know the ins and outs of what's gone wrong with the EU vaccines but it just seemed to me that your second post atleast partially contradicts your response to chaddy absolving the EU procurement scheme from any blame. 

At the end of the day, the drugs companies have us over a barrel, with so many wanting so few vaccines. In reality no one is going to say "no deal we're not buying your vaccine" so the vaccines will go to the highest bidders so perhaps haggling a low price isn't quite the achievement it first seemed? Is the AZ vaccine £3 per dose? So less than half a billion quid for the whole of the UK? In the context of what covid has cost us, that could get lost in the rounding 

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It is a tremendous effort and well done to the UK for getting something right. It all feels a bit hollow though when we're told that even though we've protected the most vulnerable we're still likely to be living under restrictions well into summer.  

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1 hour ago, Gav said:

Lancashire expecting to have everyone over 50 vaccinated by Mid-March - Again a tremendous effort by all concerned. 

https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/news/19035399.over-50s-lancashire-get-coronavirus-vaccine-mid-march/

My mum will be thrilled. She was 90 last year and she hasn't heard a dicky bird about a jab so far ! Maybe our vaccines have been sent somewhere else to allow them to level up ? I look forward to the reciprocal levelling up we'll get in the future in the arts, transport, culture, infrastructure  etc.

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3 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

My mum will be thrilled. She was 90 last year and she hasn't heard a dicky bird about a jab so far ! Maybe our vaccines have been sent somewhere else to allow them to level up ? I look forward to the reciprocal levelling up we'll get in the future in the arts, transport, culture, infrastructure  etc.

London complaining that it isn't getting the same volume of vaccines as the rest of the country so perhaps your mum's is down there? That a vulnerable 90-year-old has yet to hear about her jab is a very poor effort by all concerned.  

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8 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

My mum will be thrilled. She was 90 last year and she hasn't heard a dicky bird about a jab so far ! Maybe our vaccines have been sent somewhere else to allow them to level up ? I look forward to the reciprocal levelling up we'll get in the future in the arts, transport, culture, infrastructure  etc.

Is your mum classed as housebound on the NHS/surgery system TS?

If so they're starting the program of home visits this week/next week depending where in the country you are.

If she is not housebound, I'd contact the surgery and ask the question, do they have the correct contact details etc.

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32 minutes ago, Gav said:

Is your mum classed as housebound on the NHS/surgery system TS?

If so they're starting the program of home visits this week/next week depending where in the country you are.

If she is not housebound, I'd contact the surgery and ask the question, do they have the correct contact details etc.

She's not housebound although she's not as mobile as she was year or two back. Her GP is calling around to see her tomorrow morning about an unrelated issue, she's going to quiz him about the vaccine then. She's near me in Rochdale.

If you try phoning the surgery it's always - " You are number 21 in the queue " style stuff.

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Housebound patients are down to their GP surgery to sort out, so timing will vary. They have had to wait for supplies of the Oxford vaccine so will have been delayed a bit until now and there are still some distribution issues.

My wife's surgery are doing their housebound patients this week - I know because I'll be driving the nurse around. I have a piece of work to do later today to develop a route round about 50 houses.

As I said about 100 pages back when the vaccine programme started the great majority could have been handled by GP surgery Primary Care Networks (groups of practices), certainly at this stage and that the main risk was vaccine supply. They generally made a great start but most are now sat twiddling their thumbs partly because of shortage of vaccines and partly because some areas like in Lancashire made a cracking start and others didn't. I don't know whether the latter was less efficient centres or uneven distribution of the first vaccines.

What's clear is that we have spent a lot of time building mass vaccination centres all over the place and then writing to thousands of people getting them to go there. We're now in a situation were elderly patients are travelling a distance in cold weather to stand in queues and meeting many more people than they would have had they been called to their local GP. The letters all say that people can wait for their GP to call but it's understandable that most will choose to get their vaccine quick if they can get there. When eventually the GP surgeries get some more vaccine it will take longer to set up appointments as they will be ringing lots of people who have already had their vaccine.

The mass vaccination centres make sense if and when we have lots of vaccine. Whilst we don't it would make more sense to prioritise centres as close to people as possible. It would be more efficient and also better for social distancing.

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5 hours ago, philipl said:

Let me spell it out for you..

Procurement means buying.

The EU is saving billions and has vastly better legal terms. The procurement scheme has done what it is set up to do.

Once the stuff is bought it is over to the people who need the stuff to do the logistics and the suppliers to supply. This is where the problems are.

The free market system is breaking down and the States are going to have to requisition vaccine production facilities from companies which failed with covid.

 

The UK has bought 100 million doses of the Oxford vaccine at cost value. in total over 350 millions doses from different companies, 

Legal Terms and cost? how about focusing on saving people lives and getting the people at most risk vaccinate quickly instead of worrying about Legal terms

 

 

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11 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

The UK has bought 100 million doses of the Oxford vaccine at cost value

Explain this bit?? Genuine misunderstanding of what you mean, not a dig. 

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3 minutes ago, RoverDom said:

Explain this bit?? Genuine misunderstanding of what you mean, not a dig. 

The Oxford shot, in contrast, comes in at around £1.60 and the company has pledged to continue to provide it at cost until the summer. In low and middle-income countries, it will continue to be sold at cost in perpetuity - perhaps the single best prospect of bringing the pandemic to an end globally.

Head to head: The Oxford and Pfizer coronavirus vaccines compared (telegraph.co.uk)

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1 hour ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

She's not housebound although she's not as mobile as she was year or two back. Her GP is calling around to see her tomorrow morning about an unrelated issue, she's going to quiz him about the vaccine then. She's near me in Rochdale.

If you try phoning the surgery it's always - " You are number 21 in the queue " style stuff.

I have a Guardian reader thats very interested to know the outcome, as am I.

Let us know what the doctor says please TS.

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50 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

The Oxford shot, in contrast, comes in at around £1.60 and the company has pledged to continue to provide it at cost until the summer. In low and middle-income countries, it will continue to be sold at cost in perpetuity - perhaps the single best prospect of bringing the pandemic to an end globally.

Head to head: The Oxford and Pfizer coronavirus vaccines compared (telegraph.co.uk)

Fair play I had no idea they were providing it at cost and thought youd mistyped or something. I still cant quite believe it 

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