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52 minutes ago, Ewood Ace said:

The last I shall comment on this thread outside of Covid as I don't wish to derail it (although it is hard not to when people keep coming at me with things not relevant to it). But the only reason you are able to rant and rave is because you are no threat to the establishment, if you were a threat to the establishment then make no mistake about it you would be in prison just ask Julian Assange.

Whereas in China I would automatically be regarded as a threat and dealt with.

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5 hours ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

I'm pretty sure nobody has an issue with the thread "being derailed" due to us discussing the Chinese government. In fact, I would say it's totally relevant. 

Indeed. No one is saying that the Amnesty report proves that the Chinese created and/or deliberately  leaked Covid but it does suggest that a) they have a very poor moral compass and b) have form for cover ups. This suggests that there is at least the possibility that Covid was deliberate and worthy of investigation.

It's a bit like questioning whether I commited a burglary. If it's previously known that I mugged someone in the street it doesn't prove I also did the burglary but it suggests it's a possibility, it increases the likelihood I did it, and is worthy of investigation. 

5 hours ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Credible evidence like the Amnesty international report? 

Tying yourself in knots so you are 

See this is my big issue and why I posted. To say Amnesty is not credible isn't credible in itself. They pride themselves on their investigation. They have a strong track record of unearthing truth. They have no motive to make it up. And it's confirmed by other sources. I mean if that's not credible evidence, what is? 

 

Fwiw I'm not saying China did cause the virus intentionally - I really don't know. But I am convinced about the atrocities they are committing at these camps. That I feel is indisputable. 

Edited by Blue blood
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5 minutes ago, Blue blood said:

 And it's confirmed by other sources. I mean if that's not credible evidence, what is? 

The word of the Glorious Leader Xi and not the bourgeoisie Amnesty acting as a puppet for the anti-Sino right wing mainstream media whom are jealous of the phenomenon of....

I can’t even finish it. I think I just shaved 100 IQ points from writing that. Dear God 

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28 minutes ago, Ewood Ace said:

 I'm not working of old information I'm working of the report conducted this year by the WHO investigation ......

..........And that report is by far the most solid reliable evidence that we have on the origins.

If you say so. Many would disagree, including the head of WHO himself that came out and criticised the report:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-03-30/who-chief-critiques-covid-report-says-lab-leak-study-needed

"The World Health Organization’s chief said a mission to study the origins of the coronavirus in China was too quick to dismiss the theory of a lab leak...."

 

Also:

https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20210209005820/en/WHO-COVID-19-Investigation-Is-Tainted-by-Conflict-of-Interest-Says-AHF

“For the WHO [World Health Organization] investigation in Wuhan to stand up to scientific scrutiny, neutrality is a must,” said AHF President Michael Weinstein. “Dr. Daszak has a clear-cut conflict of interest that should’ve disqualified him from participation on the WHO team. The fact the WHO sanctioned it in the first place is completely out of line. Now, any conclusions of the investigation will be tainted by one more fragment of uncertainty."

 

But I guess they're all right wing nutjobs too!!

 

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15 minutes ago, Silas said:

If you say so. Many would disagree, including the head of WHO himself that came out and criticised the report:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-03-30/who-chief-critiques-covid-report-says-lab-leak-study-needed

"The World Health Organization’s chief said a mission to study the origins of the coronavirus in China was too quick to dismiss the theory of a lab leak...."

 

Also:

https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20210209005820/en/WHO-COVID-19-Investigation-Is-Tainted-by-Conflict-of-Interest-Says-AHF

“For the WHO [World Health Organization] investigation in Wuhan to stand up to scientific scrutiny, neutrality is a must,” said AHF President Michael Weinstein. “Dr. Daszak has a clear-cut conflict of interest that should’ve disqualified him from participation on the WHO team. The fact the WHO sanctioned it in the first place is completely out of line. Now, any conclusions of the investigation will be tainted by one more fragment of uncertainty."

 

But I guess they're all right wing nutjobs too!!

 

So produce some evidence to support your conspiracy theories. This is the problem there is no credible scientific evidence to support these conspiracy theories. All the conspiracy theorists do is smear people to try to sow doubt in peoples minds, in terms of credible scientific evidence they are found severely wanting.

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2 hours ago, Ewood Ace said:

American plans to export 500 Million Vaccines by the end June 2022. China meanwhile in the last 6 months has already exported over 350 Million doses and counting to over 80 countries. Less words and more action needed from the hoarders in the US and for that matter the UK. Because at the moment Biden has rivalled Trump when it comes to America first.

Coronavirus vaccines: Will millions more jabs for poorer countries make a difference? - BBC News

Absolute least they should be doing. They have done pretty well out of the PPE sales anyway 

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1 hour ago, Ewood Ace said:

So produce some evidence to support your conspiracy theories. This is the problem there is no credible scientific evidence to support these conspiracy theories. All the conspiracy theorists do is smear people to try to sow doubt in peoples minds, in terms of credible scientific evidence they are found severely wanting.

You have been given evidence about the atrocities and borderline genocide they are committing and you have said that is made up and a conspiracy too. 

So basically anything that goes against China, in your eyes, is a conspiracy theory. 

 

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57 minutes ago, Ewood Ace said:

So produce some evidence to support your conspiracy theories. This is the problem there is no credible scientific evidence to support these conspiracy theories. All the conspiracy theorists do is smear people to try to sow doubt in peoples minds, in terms of credible scientific evidence they are found severely wanting.

You clearly haven't even read any of the articles I've put forward to you. That's fine, it's your right to do as you please. 

But don't talk down to people as if you are the only one with the relevant information and everyone else is ignorant if you aren't even willing to acknowledge the counter points put to you. The fact that you think it is only the Daily Mail that is reporting on this speaks volumes. I could post about a dozen articles from well known left wing publications. 

The fact that you keep repeating the term "conspiracy theory" like it somehow makes you right actually does nothing but illustrate your lack of knowledge in the area. There are no conspiracy theories at the moment, just different theories, all yet to be proved conclusively either way. 

Here, I'll help you out a bit with a section from the Financial Times (that well known, right wing, conspiracy theory, nutjob newspaper 🙄 )


"By using the words “condemn”, and “conspiracy theories”, these scientists — who, it has emerged, had been brought together by a man whose organisation has funded research at the WIV — managed to make even questioning the idea that the virus had passed from an animal into humans appear unethical. But just because rigorous debate was difficult, doesn’t mean it should not have taken place. We need to be comfortable seeking out truths that might make us uncomfortable, and to stay open to the possibility that we might end up agreeing with those who we find disagreeable."

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Just now, Bigdoggsteel said:

You have been given evidence about the atrocities and borderline genocide they are committing and you have said that is made up and a conspiracy too. 

So basically anything that goes against China, in your eyes, is a conspiracy theory. 

 

My views on that are on another thread. But rather than continuing to attack me why don't you just produce some credible scientific evidence to support your conspiracy theories in regards to the origins of Covid.

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15 minutes ago, Ewood Ace said:

My views on that are on another thread. But rather than continuing to attack me why don't you just produce some credible scientific evidence to support your conspiracy theories in regards to the origins of Covid.

There is plenty of evidence that they covered the outbreak up initially.

There isn't conclusive evidence either way, but you can bet your bottom dollar no investigation will be transparent with China involved, the signs are pointing more and more towards a lab leak. The make up of the virus alone suggests it was man made. A vast number have scientists have stated this. 

Edited by Bigdoggsteel
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20 minutes ago, Silas said:

Here, I'll help you out a bit with a section from the Financial Times (that well known, right wing, conspiracy theory, nutjob newspaper 🙄 )

Well the FT is certainly right wing and certainly not fond of China.

20 minutes ago, Silas said:

You clearly haven't even read any of the articles I've put forward to you. That's fine, it's your right to do as you please. 

I have but you, your articles and none of your fellow conspiracy theorists be it on this forum or in the wider world are able to produce any credible scientific evidence to support their theories. These conspiracy theories stink of one thing.

20 minutes ago, Silas said:

But don't talk down to people as if you are the only one with the relevant information and everyone else is ignorant if you aren't even willing to acknowledge the counter points put to you. The fact that you think it is only the Daily Mail that is reporting on this speaks volumes. I could post about a dozen articles from well known left wing publications. 

I never said that it was only the Daily Mail reporting this. I said that they are the main media organisation in this country pushing it. You condescendingly and incorrectly said I 'clearly haven't even read any of the articles I've put forward to you'. Perhaps you should read correctly what I write.

20 minutes ago, Silas said:

The fact that you keep repeating the term "conspiracy theory" like it somehow makes you right actually does nothing but illustrate your lack of knowledge in the area. There are no conspiracy theories at the moment, just different theories, all yet to be proved conclusively either way. 

I don't have a problem with conspiracy theories/theorists. There are certain events in history that I have theories about but the problem with these Covid origin conspiracy theories is that there is no credible scientific evidence to support them. But anyway we are just going around in circles here.

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1 minute ago, Ewood Ace said:

I have but you, your articles and none of your fellow conspiracy theorists.....

 

You keep saying this, it's a little odd, I don't have a conspiracy theory thanks. 

I'm open and interested in all options. I just want the truth to be discovered and verified, mainly so my mind can be put at ease that protocols are put in place to try and stop a pandemic like this ever happening again.

Between the 2 main theories, might sound like fence sitting, but I'm probably split 50/50. 

However, I post some of this stuff because I find it puzzling that some people are so entrenched in their position that they are unwilling to even open their minds and consider other options and some of the other evidence available. 

I find it even stranger that some of those people, rather than discuss the various merits and demerits of the different scenarios, opt instead to resort to repetitive insults and monikers like "crazy", "nutjob", and "right wing".

But all that was covered fairly comprehensively in one of the articles you didn't read. 😉

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39 minutes ago, Ewood Ace said:

My views on that are on another thread. But rather than continuing to attack me why don't you just produce some credible scientific evidence to support your conspiracy theories in regards to the origins of Covid.

Why don’t you?

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23 minutes ago, Ewood Ace said:

Well the FT is certainly right wing and certainly not fond of China.

 

Not true. It is pro-business and usually leans to the right but not always on economic issues, but is socially very liberal

It is certainly not "right wing"

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I don’t understand why a theory about this being leaked from a lab which conducts research into viruses such as the Covid-19 is a huge conspiracy by “right wing” nuts only

If you dismiss that off the bat, without having a serious, independent investigation into the matter (and not a footnote of a flawed investigation) then you are blinding yourself

You only ever turn a blind eye to things you don’t want to hear or have vested interests in the alternative. It can make you look rather silly in truth. 

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2 minutes ago, Silas said:

You keep saying this, it's a little odd, I don't have a conspiracy theory thanks. 

I'm open and interested in all options. I just want the truth to be discovered and verified, mainly so my mind can be put at ease that protocols are put in place to try and stop a pandemic like this ever happening again.

Between the 2 main theories, might sound like fence sitting, but I'm probably split 50/50. 

What credible scientific theories have you seen to make you think 50% that the lab theory is plausible. 

The Lab leak theory is a theory of a conspiracy. As I say I don't have a problem with conspiracy theories/theorists there are events that I have theories on (I'd say most people have conspiracy theories on at least on event in history). I just struggle to see any credible scientific evidence to support to lab leak conspiracies.

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Just now, jim mk2 said:

Not true. It is pro-business and usually leans to the right but not always on economic issues, but is socially very liberal

It is certainly not "right wing"

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/financial-times/

One of the least biased and highly factual newspapers that exist in the UK. 

We're going to have to stop agreeing Jim, or the end of the World really might be on it's way. 

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2 minutes ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

I don’t understand why a theory about this being leaked from a lab which conducts research into viruses such as the Covid-19 is a huge conspiracy by “right wing” nuts only

Because it is the right wing nutters especially in the US who have been spreading this conspiracy theory from the very off. Also many of the same right wingers (especially from the US) who have been spreading this conspiracy theory from the off are also very prominent in the vaccination conspiracy theories as well.

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I don't think we'll ever get a definitive answer where it orginated from but it coming from a lab researching viruses, accidentally or otherwise, isn't exactly far fetched. No one can say with certainty that it did or didn't come from a lab, to try and say definitively either way suggests a degree of bias. 

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1 hour ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

I don’t understand why a theory about this being leaked from a lab which conducts research into viruses such as the Covid-19 is a huge conspiracy by “right wing” nuts only

If you dismiss that off the bat, without having a serious, independent investigation into the matter (and not a footnote of a flawed investigation) then you are blinding yourself

You only ever turn a blind eye to things you don’t want to hear or have vested interests in the alternative. It can make you look rather silly in truth. 

I see what you did there 

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52 minutes ago, Ewood Ace said:

Because it is the right wing nutters especially in the US who have been spreading this conspiracy theory from the very off. Also many of the same right wingers (especially from the US) who have been spreading this conspiracy theory from the off are also very prominent in the vaccination conspiracy theories as well.

What in god's name are you talking about lol

Congrats on winning the award for most mentions of conspiracy theory and right wing nut in the space a number of posts though 

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I don't get the link between "right wing nut job conspiracy theorists" and been open to the possibility that the virus leaked from a lab. They are clearly not 2 exclusive positions. To try and draw parallels is pure defection and nothing else. 

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Sounds like Johnsons refusal to put India in the red zone is going to cost everyone another month of restrictions and bans.

All in the attempt to get a trade deal with India which has been pushed to the fore because of the Brexit tragedy.

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