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On 13/07/2021 at 21:16, Silas said:

I think a month or two ago, I discussed with someone about once everyone over 40 in UK had been double jabbed we should be concentrating efforts on rest of World. 

I'll not try and dress that up as some compassionate, selfless act. I was just as concerned about variants and the fact that none of us could really get back to normal until the World got back normal. 

Since then we've obviously had the steep rise of the Delta variant, and now you've posted a reputable article that pretty much says - No, it's the under 18's that are the problem! It's that group we're most worried about.

So now I'm all over the shop with it.

Just shows how quickly things can change with this pandemic. 

Is this different with the delta variant? We have repeatedly been told kids don't have symptoms. 

I notice the yanks are pushing to vaccinate kids. I think that's wrong. Good for the pharma company profits though..

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7 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Is this different with the delta variant? We have repeatedly been told kids don't have symptoms. 

Exactly. So they have no idea they are carriers. Summer holidays now so all spending their days catching up with friends, whilst this more infectious virus does the rounds. 

See below:

On 16/07/2021 at 12:51, 47er said:

They're disproportionally unvaccinated and more likely to go out and about in crowds without a mask.

Anyone at that age thinks they are invincible.

 

I think the issue isn't them getting sick, but being superspeaders, that causes a massive new wave which then ends up punishing themselves when they're lives are screwed up again by Winter lockdowns. 

The way I'm reading it is this pandemic could cause real future mental health issues with that group (and physical possibly).

I think we forget sometimes how resilient we are as fully grown adults with life experience. We bitch and moan about things, but in the end we grit our teeth and crack on with it.

Maybe adolescents don't have that skill set yet. I don't know how a 14 year old me would be handling all this. I'd take a guess at pretty poorly. 

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1 hour ago, Silas said:

Exactly. So they have no idea they are carriers. Summer holidays now so all spending their days catching up with friends, whilst this more infectious virus does the rounds. 

See below:

 

I think the issue isn't them getting sick, but being superspeaders, that causes a massive new wave which then ends up punishing themselves when they're lives are screwed up again by Winter lockdowns. 

The way I'm reading it is this pandemic could cause real future mental health issues with that group (and physical possibly).

I think we forget sometimes how resilient we are as fully grown adults with life experience. We bitch and moan about things, but in the end we grit our teeth and crack on with it.

Maybe adolescents don't have that skill set yet. I don't know how a 14 year old me would be handling all this. I'd take a guess at pretty poorly. 

With the majority of the "vulnerable" population vaccinated though, surely this will be ok? High case numbers, but low hospital admissions and deaths? 

I agree with what your government are doing , it's time to move on with our lives. Our government are idiots, they keep moving the goalposts as to what needs to be done to move on. Have a feeling it'll be pressure on the un vaccinated, including kids, next. Doesn't make sense to me. 

Loads of stores doing the round where of fully vaccinated people getting infected and sick. I don't think the media are covering things in an unbiased manner. 

Edited by Bigdoggsteel
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1 hour ago, Silas said:

Exactly. So they have no idea they are carriers. Summer holidays now so all spending their days catching up with friends, whilst this more infectious virus does the rounds. 

See below:

 

I think the issue isn't them getting sick, but being superspeaders, that causes a massive new wave which then ends up punishing themselves when they're lives are screwed up again by Winter lockdowns. 

The way I'm reading it is this pandemic could cause real future mental health issues with that group (and physical possibly).

I think we forget sometimes how resilient we are as fully grown adults with life experience. We bitch and moan about things, but in the end we grit our teeth and crack on with it.

Maybe adolescents don't have that skill set yet. I don't know how a 14 year old me would be handling all this. I'd take a guess at pretty poorly. 

Too late for that already 

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1 hour ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

With the majority of the "vulnerable" population vaccinated though, surely this will be ok? High case numbers, but low hospital admissions and deaths? 

I agree with what your government are doing , it's time to move on with our lives. Our government are idiots, they keep moving the goalposts as to what needs to be done to move on. Have a feeling it'll be pressure on the un vaccinated, including kids, next. Doesn't make sense to me. 

Loads of stores doing the round where of fully vaccinated people getting infected and sick. I don't think the media are covering things in an unbiased manner. 

The vaccine is against the original variant. Spreading newer variants carries with it more and more danger as the virus evolves and varies and differs from the RNA of the vaccine.

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1 hour ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Too late for that already 

Yeah, I understand where you're coming from but we can't always look at things that way.

If we've had a prisoner in solitary confinement for a month, and we know his head is already mush, do we keep him there another 2 weeks?

Sod it, he's already a mess, what difference will another 2 weeks make? 

Could just be what pushes him over the edge right?

(I'm not comparing lockdown to SC, just an example.)

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Tomorrow isn't "Freedom Day^

It is, in fact, Freedom to Infect Others Day

We already know what the consequence will be. There will be hundreds of thousands of additional Covid cases that could be avoided. There will be many deaths and large numbers with long Covid.

The government choosing that is not freedom. It is moral bankruptcy. And its herd immunity policy is tantamount to murder

 

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Posted (edited)

Personally hope that many firms continue to enforce mask-wearing for a while.

With it no longer being a legal requirement, it technically stops being a discriminatory issue as it can be demanded of ALL customers without the 'exemption' excuse thrown in.

Edited by Mike E
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6 hours ago, Mike E said:

The vaccine is against the original variant. Spreading newer variants carries with it more and more danger as the virus evolves and varies and differs from the RNA of the vaccine.

That's very convenient, isn't it? Big pharma really get a free hit here. They aren't liable if people have adverse reactions or if their vaccine doesn't actually work. Billions of profits on top of that. Good thing they have such trustworthy records, actually wait a second....

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5 hours ago, Silas said:

Yeah, I understand where you're coming from but we can't always look at things that way.

If we've had a prisoner in solitary confinement for a month, and we know his head is already mush, do we keep him there another 2 weeks?

Sod it, he's already a mess, what difference will another 2 weeks make? 

Could just be what pushes him over the edge right?

(I'm not comparing lockdown to SC, just an example.)

I get that, just saying a lot of damage has already been done 

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27 minutes ago, Mike E said:

Personally hope that many firms continue to enforce mask-wearing for a while.

With it no longer being a legal requirement, it technically stops being a discriminatory issue as it can be demanded of ALL customers without the 'exemption' excuse thrown in.

Jury ,somehow, still out on masks, although I suppose no harm in wearing one in busy indoor settings..I don't have an issue, as long as it's not permanent. 

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45 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Jury ,somehow, still out on masks, although I suppose no harm in wearing one in busy indoor settings..I don't have an issue, as long as it's not permanent. 

Absolutely.

I do hope it becomes normalised that we can choose to wear a mask at work if we don't feel well though.

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48 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

That's very convenient, isn't it? Big pharma really get a free hit here. They aren't liable if people have adverse reactions or if their vaccine doesn't actually work. Billions of profits on top of that. Good thing they have such trustworthy records, actually wait a second....

It's Yr 8 Biology, regardless of convenience. We see it every year with flu.

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18 hours ago, Silas said:

 

I think the issue isn't them getting sick, but being superspeaders, that causes a massive new wave which then ends up punishing themselves when they're lives are screwed up again by Winter lockdowns. 

The way I'm reading it is this pandemic could cause real future mental health issues with that group (and physical possibly).

I think we forget sometimes how resilient we are as fully grown adults with life experience. We bitch and moan about things, but in the end we grit our teeth and crack on with it.

Maybe adolescents don't have that skill set yet. I don't know how a 14 year old me would be handling all this. I'd take a guess at pretty poorly. 

Cant disagree with any of this. In fact from my experience this is spot on. 

As we enter freedom Day, with a government bleating on about caution (despite lifting all restrictions) I think one of the few benefits of it is it helps teenagers. 

The effects of the pandemic have been huge on learning, not just academically but socially and emotionally too. There are at least 2 year groups now who have had half the transition from primary to secondary, a huge step up, which has seen many not adjust as they should do.

Then there's those taking exams whose entire GCSE period has been disrupted with home working and they will have had little practice of exams too. Far from ideal preparation and is increasing levels of anxiety and stress. 

Primary, I would imagine (although have no first hand experience) that the same adjustment issues with transition will be prevalent in those starting school as that's another huge transition. The effects again could take years to undo. 

And that's all before individual cases of isolation, stress and anxiety are considered within students. That's before the increased levels of grief from loved ones. It doesn't factor in all the missed opportunities young people have had, where processing that disappointment is much more difficult at that age. 

Sorry a bit of a rant as it's an area I see daily but the short answer is that young people really are struggling. 

 

 

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I’m going to a wedding in Staffordshire today. (My mate is tight and it’s been planned on a Monday for ages, just so happens to coincide with today’s date).

A few of the guests have dropped out, due to getting pinged and I imagine a few guests will end up with it after today, too.

It just better not be me….

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Scientists have predicted that UK will probably reach 100000 cases a day this summer. Prof Neil Ferguson has said this could go as high as 200000 a day given the abolition of restrictions.

Of these around 1000 a day will require hospitalisation or 2000 a day if the 200000 peak is reached.

The result will be that the NHS will be again overwhelmed. As a result those long awaiting treatment for something else will see their appointments cancelled. For some eg cancer patients, they will die.

The vaccination programme means fewer deaths will occur than in previous surges, however many will be victims of "long coronavirus" ie permanent damage to some of their organs.

From the Guardian "Delta is driving the surge in Covid infections across the UK. Scientists have long warned that fully unlocking with a partially immune population (only half the UK is fully vaccinated) is a recipe for the emergence of new, dangerous variants. The unlocking will probably not just allow Delta cases to rise sharply and potentially make way for the variant to mutate further, but perhaps even accommodate the spread of the more vaccine-evasive Beta."

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14 minutes ago, 47er said:

Scientists have predicted that UK will probably reach 100000 cases a day this summer. Prof Neil Ferguson has said this could go as high as 200000 a day given the abolition of restrictions.

Of these around 1000 a day will require hospitalisation or 2000 a day if the 200000 peak is reached.

The result will be that the NHS will be again overwhelmed. As a result those long awaiting treatment for something else will see their appointments cancelled. For some eg cancer patients, they will die.

The vaccination programme means fewer deaths will occur than in previous surges, however many will be victims of "long coronavirus" ie permanent damage to some of their organs.

From the Guardian "Delta is driving the surge in Covid infections across the UK. Scientists have long warned that fully unlocking with a partially immune population (only half the UK is fully vaccinated) is a recipe for the emergence of new, dangerous variants. The unlocking will probably not just allow Delta cases to rise sharply and potentially make way for the variant to mutate further, but perhaps even accommodate the spread of the more vaccine-evasive Beta."

Is it just me or is every government cranking the fear up to 11? The vulnerable and elderly are pretty much all fully vaccinated. Younger , fit people generally do not get sick, so I don't see how hospitalizations will be so high? Our government are doing the same, as are the yanks. Why is there such a push to vaccinate people who the evidence would show, don't really need it and even as far as the risks outweigh the benefits? Who is driving this? 

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18 hours ago, RoverDom said:

People keep talking about rising cases. We've hit 50k and deaths are still around 50 whereas last time it was 50k they were 1600. 

I mentioned last week about the countries frontline services being stretched to breaking point, as a result of this, deaths will occur that won't be in the Covid figures, but are very much a symptom of Covid.

Local hospital beds are near capacity in many places, especially in the North, its very worrying indeed from what I hear. 

Its a really tough call for the government if truth be know, with cases rising, if they left the decision another 2/4/6/8/10 weeks, how could they justify opening up with cases double what they are now?

The real answer is to not lift the current restrictions at all, but that would damage the economy even further and more people would lose jobs and further business would go to the wall, like I said, tough call. 

 

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Most of the country are now double jabbed with what we are told is an effective vaccine. Maybe I'm missing something but how can we then be looking at potentially 200,000 new cases a day? 1.4 million new cases a week, in a populace that is largely vaccinated. I know that the vaccine isn't perfect and people will still catch covid, but those kind of figures strike me as huge.

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18 minutes ago, Gav said:

The real answer is to not lift the current restrictions

If we're really bothered about keeping cases down, is the answer not further restrictions? Cases have spiked under current restrictions which to me suggests that current restrictions are fairly meaningless in terms of stopping the spread (maybe because people aren't even following them) but still strangle businesses. 

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11 minutes ago, DanLad said:

Most of the country are now double jabbed with what we are told is an effective vaccine. Maybe I'm missing something but how can we then be looking at potentially 200,000 new cases a day? 1.4 million new cases a week, in a populace that is largely vaccinated. I know that the vaccine isn't perfect and people will still catch covid, but those kind of figures strike me as huge.

Read again---most of the country is NOT double-jabbed---around 50% are.

Yes those figures are huge and presumably a worst case scenario but the 100,000 is confidently predicted. Maybe the figure will be in the middle. How would you feel about 150000 cases a day which would mean 1500 hospital cases a day?

You've also ignored my last sentence about mutation and the Beta variant.

 

Edited by 47er
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