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1 hour ago, joey_big_nose said:

If you go back to July 18th did you think the full opening of the economy on July 19th would be followed by a halving of infections? I'd be very surprised if you did.

I concur with your opinion, I'm expecting a spike, but all I'm saying is history has shown that the unexpected does happen.

I did not, you're quite correct jbn.

I think we'd both be even more surprised if schools opening didn't see a major spike, but I'd love to be proven wrong. 

Edited by Gav
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On 20/08/2021 at 12:38, Bigdoggsteel said:

Teenagers and children shouldn't be vaccinated. They are at no risk of the virus. Their bodies are developing and they don't need to be injected with an experimental vaccine. It's typically those without kids who are keen on vaccinating them. Are you in that camp?

There is a big story here about a young guy who played for Waterford city dying after getting the vaccine. Obviously the media aren't saying that's why he died, but his family are speaking out. 

 

I’d agree that it is not sensible to be vaccinating children right now, but not for the spurious reason you give. How you can still be saying the vaccines are experimental after god knows how many millions of people have had doses I don’t know.

The reason why we shouldn’t be vaccinating young people right now is that getting vaccines out to the vulnerable in the developing world is far more important. Firstly, it’s just the right thing to do but it’s also actually in our interest too. If this isn’t done the odds on further new variants rise and who knows whether these variants will be resistant to our current vaccines. If that happens we go back to March 2020.

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15 hours ago, only2garners said:

I’d agree that it is not sensible to be vaccinating children right now, but not for the spurious reason you give. How you can still be saying the vaccines are experimental after god knows how many millions of people have had doses I don’t know.

The reason why we shouldn’t be vaccinating young people right now is that getting vaccines out to the vulnerable in the developing world is far more important. Firstly, it’s just the right thing to do but it’s also actually in our interest too. If this isn’t done the odds on further new variants rise and who knows whether these variants will be resistant to our current vaccines. If that happens we go back to March 2020.

Absolute garbage. You're being duped. Notice very little vaccines in Africa, but no major issues? Funny that, isn't it? What's your explanation? Seeing as you're such an expert, you won't have to Google that. Afghanistan, again I'm sure you're up to speed on why nobody seems to be dropping over there? Looking forward to hearing why. Anyway, it's not up to us to pay pharma companies to bring vacinnes to countries whose governments are corrupt. Out of fear that there might be a mutation, that will probably be less dangerous anyway. 

Kids shouldn't be getting it for exactly the reason I gave. No other reason. 

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1 hour ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Absolute garbage. You're being duped. Notice very little vaccines in Africa, but no major issues? Funny that, isn't it? What's your explanation?

There's so many reasons why African countries just arent comparable. 

- so many other diseases to kill off old and vulnerable before covid came along 

- testing infrastructure just isn't there. If you don't measure it you can't see it but doesn't mean it's not there so deaths likely under counted

- much more favourable climate 

 

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1 hour ago, RoverDom said:

There's so many reasons why African countries just arent comparable. 

- so many other diseases to kill off old and vulnerable before covid came along 

- testing infrastructure just isn't there. If you don't measure it you can't see it but doesn't mean it's not there so deaths likely under counted

- much more favourable climate 

 

The first point makes no sense. Are you saying they have no old people? 

Likely under counted maybe, as it has been vastly over counted here. Still I don't believe they wouldn't know if Covid was the cause of death over there, it would be pretty clear what it was,surely? 

As for the climate, so how do you explain Florida or many other very hot climates that had loads of cases? 

You're lucky you live in a country with a government who are doing the sensible thing now and moving on from all this madness. 

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36 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

The first point makes no sense. Are you saying they have no old people? 

That's a leap. I'm saying they have significantly fewer old people, fewer old people fewer covid deaths. Just need to look at life expectancies. Also the median age of UK / Europe is high 40s nearing 50 (I think) where as many African countries isn't even 20. 

37 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Likely under counted maybe, as it has been vastly over counted here. Still I don't believe they wouldn't know if Covid was the cause of death over there, it would be pretty clear what it was,surely? 

If they're not testing for it and not monitoring excess deaths then it's going to be difficult to grasp the impact. 

37 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

As for the climate, so how do you explain Florida or many other very hot climates that had loads of cases? 

We all know there's a seasonality to covid, it's less bad in summer than in winter. Not saying it's non existent in hot climates but it caps it to a degree

37 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

You're lucky you live in a country with a government who are doing the sensible thing now and moving on from all this madness. 

I am indeed very grateful and I'm not advocating more restrictions or anything like that, I just think trying to compare Africa and the UK is largely meaningless. 

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On 23/08/2021 at 14:01, 47er said:

Look at me ,I can Google stuff. Give us the gist of the article there?

From my reading of it,it's an author trying to make something fit. Basically Africa are more organised and on the ball than us here in every way. Funny that, as it doesn't seem to apply to anything else? 

Hence why we send so much money there and corrupt governments take it.

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On 23/08/2021 at 13:08, RoverDom said:

That's a leap. I'm saying they have significantly fewer old people, fewer old people fewer covid deaths. Just need to look at life expectancies. Also the median age of UK / Europe is high 40s nearing 50 (I think) where as many African countries isn't even 20. 

If they're not testing for it and not monitoring excess deaths then it's going to be difficult to grasp the impact. 

We all know there's a seasonality to covid, it's less bad in summer than in winter. Not saying it's non existent in hot climates but it caps it to a degree

I am indeed very grateful and I'm not advocating more restrictions or anything like that, I just think trying to compare Africa and the UK is largely meaningless. 

Explain Florida so? We have had more cases this summer than we did last winter too, apart from January where it peaked, but higher than November and December. 

I think it's difficult to get the truth here. Discussion is difficult. There is the official narrative, which I'm sure some of which is true, but you can't question it. Would you agree with that? 

Prime example , for months we were getting deaths from Covid, then this conveniently changed to deaths with Covid. See the distinction? Most people who died were over 80 with 4 plus underying conditions

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On 28/08/2021 at 12:06, Bigdoggsteel said:

 

I think it's difficult to get the truth here. Discussion is difficult. There is the official narrative, which I'm sure some of which is true, but you can't question it. Would you agree with that? 

Prime example , for months we were getting deaths from Covid, then this conveniently changed to deaths with Covid. See the distinction? Most people who died were over 80 with 4 plus underying conditions

What do you do for a living Bds?

Surely Covid has impacted your working life, your home life, your family and friends.

Common sense should tell you this pandemic is real, it kills indiscriminately, the numbers don’t lie. 

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On 21/08/2021 at 16:05, Gav said:

I did not, you're quite correct jbn.

I think we'd both be even more surprised if schools opening didn't see a major spike, but I'd love to be proven wrong. 

Just to follow up on this - Andrew Lillico, an economist journalist who I share very few political views with, but I have to admit has been modelling the pandemic very well - is very forthright that England has hit herd immunity and expecting a steady decline in cases which has already started.. Other key moddlers like James Ward supporting his view also.

So it could be we don't actually see much of a spike in the next few weeks. These guys have forecasted hospitalisations better than Imperial, Warwick, LSH&TM.

Very encouraging.

 

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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-58383606

Scotland has been a large rise in cases since restrictions were lifted, coupled with the kids going back to school, it stands to reason we will see something similar with kids returning to the classroom.

Its interesting to note, than local hospitals are seeing younger people being admitted with Covid19, many unvaccinated.

Get jabbed.

 

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1 minute ago, Gav said:

Its interesting to note, than local hospitals are seeing younger people being admitted with Covid19, many unvaccinated.

In a weird way that's fantastic news. Shows the vaccine is effective 

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22 minutes ago, RoverDom said:

In a weird way that's fantastic news. Shows the vaccine is effective 

Read in the Guardian yesterday that the infection rate in Britain is 26 times what it was a year ago!

Yet deaths are down---so clearly vaccination is the key difference.

However hospitals are full to over-flowing and winter is on the way.

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26 minutes ago, 47er said:

Read in the Guardian yesterday that the infection rate in Britain is 26 times what it was a year ago!

Yet deaths are down---so clearly vaccination is the key difference.

However hospitals are full to over-flowing and winter is on the way

 

53 minutes ago, Gav said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-58383606

Scotland has been a large rise in cases since restrictions were lifted, coupled with the kids going back to school, it stands to reason we will see something similar with kids returning to the classroom.

Its interesting to note, than local hospitals are seeing younger people being admitted with Covid19, many unvaccinated.

Get jabbed.

 

In Lllicos view is this is the result of Scotland having a much lower number of people who have previously caught the infection or been jabbed.

In Scotland it's around 77%, whereas in England it's about 85%. In the maths that makes all the difference in terms of if the disease can continue expand (ie. Herd immunity)

What I find very interesting about the pandemic is its a real time experiment. Lillico makes his well structured, transparent claim, and then we get to watch if he's accurate or not. The scientific debate occurs day by day as people discuss on twitter.

As said he's been on the button recently, despite professing views significantly against prevailing opinion. My money I think looking at his maths is that he's right. But just my view, and I'm no expert.

Ps. Absolutely everyone should get jabbed!!!!!! By no way do I mean by the above herd immunity people won't continue to get the disaese. All that happens as we hit herd immunity is it turns into an endemic diseases like Flu which thousands will catch a year with all the very significant risks attached. We all need the jab to protect yourself and others! Herd immunity just stops it growing exponentially and forms an equilibrium.

Edited by joey_big_nose
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16 hours ago, Gav said:

What do you do for a living Bds?

Surely Covid has impacted your working life, your home life, your family and friends.

Common sense should tell you this pandemic is real, it kills indiscriminately, the numbers don’t lie. 

I work in HR.

Obviously it has impacted me. It has impacted everybody. Predominantly because of lockdowns and scare mongering in the media. Lockdowns have done more damage than the virus and the repercussions will be felt on that for decades to come, it hasn't even started yet. Through work and what I do I know of 100s of people who got the virus and nobody had worse than cold like symptoms. Do you know anyone personally who got sick from it? 

I never said it wasn't real, so don't put words in my mouth. I think it has been over blown. We know now that it's not very lethal unless you are old and/or have multiple underlying conditions. The survival rate is 99.7% on average, most people have mild symptoms to none at all. Eventually it will be looked at like the flu, as will the roll out of vaccines, unless of course Big pharma is allowed to hijack this and make the calls on who should be vaccinated, as in everybody, unsurprisingly. 

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51 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Do you know anyone personally who got sick from it? 

I do, 30. Got it a year ago and still has no sense of smell and can't really taste much.

 

52 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

I never said it wasn't real, so don't put words in my mouth. I think it has been over blown. We know now that it's not very lethal unless you are old and/or have multiple underlying conditions. The survival rate is 99.7% on average, most people have mild symptoms to none at all. Eventually it will be looked at like the flu, as will the roll out of vaccines, unless of course Big pharma is allowed to hijack this and make the calls on who should be vaccinated, as in everybody, unsurprisingly. 

If it's only lethal for the old and sick, just let them die then. We'll be fine. Fuck em. Oh and poor people too, fuck them and all.

It will be looked at like the flu eventually, you're right. Both because of vaccines and basic natural selection. It's not in the interest of the virus to kill people, it's in its interest for people to spread it. And they can't do that if they're dead.

But right now, the mortality rate for covid is estimated at around 7 times higher than for flu and kills people earlier than the flu does.

 

As a society we want as many as people as possible to live long, healthy and happy lives and I'm happy to make sacrifices for that as a member of society, even if I don't personally benefit.

See who agrees with that statement and you'll get a fairly representative split on a good number of issues.

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1 hour ago, XLM said:

I do, 30. Got it a year ago and still has no sense of smell and can't really taste much.

 

If it's only lethal for the old and sick, just let them die then. We'll be fine. Fuck em. Oh and poor people too, fuck them and all.

It will be looked at like the flu eventually, you're right. Both because of vaccines and basic natural selection. It's not in the interest of the virus to kill people, it's in its interest for people to spread it. And they can't do that if they're dead.

But right now, the mortality rate for covid is estimated at around 7 times higher than for flu and kills people earlier than the flu does.

 

As a society we want as many as people as possible to live long, healthy and happy lives and I'm happy to make sacrifices for that as a member of society, even if I don't personally benefit.

See who agrees with that statement and you'll get a fairly representative split on a good number of issues.

Why are you saying let old people die? I never insinuated or said anything of the sort. I think the vaccines are good for the most vulnerable. Not sure why you're bringing poor people into it. Obviously I don't want them to die either,needless to say. 

7 times higher than flu? Do you have a source for that. I would say that isn't conclusive yet, but I would be interested to see where you got your data from. Here's one for you. In America 95% of people who died had at least 3 underlying conditions. 

Are you overweight? That's a huge risk factor. I wish governments would encourage people to lose weight, as much as they push the vaccine. 

Edited by Bigdoggsteel
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13 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Why are you saying let old people die? I never insinuated or said anything of the sort. I think the vaccines are good for the most vulnerable. Not sure why you're bringing poor people into it. Obviously I don't want them to die either,needless to say. 

...

Here's one for you. In America 95% of people who died had at least 3 underlying conditions. 

Then why keep mentioning facts about underlying conditions? The only reason I can see for that being relevant is that you're saying they were going to die soon anyway, so it doesn't matter. If I've got the wrong end of the stick and you're only saying about vaccination, then I apologise. I still think it amounts to the same sentiment, but I only just dawned on me that you might not link the things together.

Vaccination for the less vulnerable will also help reduce transmission to the vulnerable. I'm not sure if there is any hard data on this yet, but I would be surprised if any other conclusion is drawn considering a key driver for transmission is viral load and vaccines reduce the viral load.

Less virus in the general population, means less virus given to the vulnerable - vaccinated or not. And that means less people die.

I hate having jabs, I do not have an underlying health condition and I doubt they will help me in any way... But I've had both of mine because it is my social responsibility to do so. Just like with abiding by speed limits and paying taxes, my actions (or lack of) affect other people's rights and liberties.

 

31 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

7 times higher than flu? Do you have a source for that. I would say that isn't conclusive yet, but I would be interested to see where you got your data from.

Without Googling it, I was basing it off the mortality rates that were argued back and forth at the start of the year and it stuck in my mind, which put covid at 7 times higher than flu (arguable sure, but that's science). Plus the number of covid deaths vs flu deaths in an average year (10-25k vs ~120k for England & Wales). It's basically impossible to boil it down to a single figure accurately, that's why I said estimated.

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5 minutes ago, XLM said:

Then why keep mentioning facts about underlying conditions? The only reason I can see for that being relevant is that you're saying they were going to die soon anyway, so it doesn't matter. If I've got the wrong end of the stick and you're only saying about vaccination, then I apologise. I still think it amounts to the same sentiment, but I only just dawned on me that you might not link the things together.

Vaccination for the less vulnerable will also help reduce transmission to the vulnerable. I'm not sure if there is any hard data on this yet, but I would be surprised if any other conclusion is drawn considering a key driver for transmission is viral load and vaccines reduce the viral load.

Less virus in the general population, means less virus given to the vulnerable - vaccinated or not. And that means less people die.

I hate having jabs, I do not have an underlying health condition and I doubt they will help me in any way... But I've had both of mine because it is my social responsibility to do so. Just like with abiding by speed limits and paying taxes, my actions (or lack of) affect other people's rights and liberties.

 

Without Googling it, I was basing it off the mortality rates that were argued back and forth at the start of the year and it stuck in my mind, which put covid at 7 times higher than flu (arguable sure, but that's science). Plus the number of covid deaths vs flu deaths in an average year (10-25k vs ~120k for England & Wales). It's basically impossible to boil it down to a single figure accurately, that's why I said estimated.

I mention underlying conditions as the data suggests Covid alone will not kill many people. The people who died predominantly had at least 3 other underlying conditions. We also know that people were being labelled as "died from Covid" even if they died from something else, bit had Covid at the time. Hence why it's now been reported as "died with Covid" ,rather than " died from Covid". That's what they are doing here anyway. Oh ya, I'm not saying we are all going to die anyway! 

Doing it for social responsibility is admirable and it seems your intentions and heart is in the right place. I personally don't think it falls under social responsibility and that the media, politicians and big pharma would be manipulative to try and push that on people. It's like "carbon footprint" when it comes to global warming. That's a made up word that tries to blame individuals for systemic failures on climate change, along with a complete disregard from countries like China, for example. The issue is the vaccine isn't effective enough. If it was, it wouldn't matter as long the vulnerable and elderly were vaccinated. This manipulation that we all need to be vaccinated is wrong. They need to make a more effective vaccine. 

 

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13 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

The issue is the vaccine isn't effective enough. If it was, it wouldn't matter as long the vulnerable and elderly were vaccinated. This manipulation that we all need to be vaccinated is wrong. They need to make a more effective vaccine. 

Come on man. Take a bit of responsibility for your place in the world. I don't know anything about you, so I don't want to say what that sentiment makes me think of you.

If you're scared of getting it, that's fine. Say that. That's much more reasonable than saying that people who are much smarter than both of us and have created, tested and rolled out a vaccine for a new virus in 1 year need to do better.

19 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

I mention underlying conditions as the data suggests Covid alone will not kill many people. The people who died predominantly had at least 3 other underlying conditions.

So what? They're going to die anyway? How soon after stops making it worth it? 1 extra day of life, 6 months, 2 years, 5 years?

23 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

I personally don't think it falls under social responsibility and that the media, politicians and big pharma would be manipulative to try and push that on people.

So, take a step back from this for a second. What are the motivations, what is to be gained by each party that you've called out? What do politicians (of all manner of economic ideology around the world) and the people within the media (again, from the whole gamut of the political spectrum) gain from encouraging people to be vaccinated?

31 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

It's like "carbon footprint" when it comes to global warming. That's a made up word that tries to blame individuals for systemic failures on climate change, along with a complete disregard from countries like China, for example.

It's just a phrase. You have a carbon footprint, I have a carbon footprint. The word doesn't try to do anything, it might be used to blame, it's also equally used because it's quicker than saying "the amount of carbon that an individual uses in their day-to-day life". If anything I would say being aware of it enables us to make better choices, to force change upwards by showing businesses that we care about how much carbon we are responsible for, by choosing products and services based on their carbon impact over cost.

Also, we have more responsibility for the amount of carbon that we consume when compared to the average Chinese person because we enjoy a better quality of life, for no reason other than having the good fortune to be born where we were.

 

42 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Doing it for social responsibility is admirable and it seems your intentions and heart is in the right place.

It isn't something that should be lauded. You do your bit and expect others to do theirs. Every man for themselves is a route to ruin for everyone.

I'm not sure why so many people don't seem to have a sense of social responsibility when the only reason we live the way we do is because of the society we live in. We aren't hunter-gatherers anymore, and if we were most of us would be fucked. If society breaks down, then so does our individual way of life.

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26 minutes ago, XLM said:

Come on man. Take a bit of responsibility for your place in the world. I don't know anything about you, so I don't want to say what that sentiment makes me think of you.

If you're scared of getting it, that's fine. Say that. That's much more reasonable than saying that people who are much smarter than both of us and have created, tested and rolled out a vaccine for a new virus in 1 year need to do better.

So what? They're going to die anyway? How soon after stops making it worth it? 1 extra day of life, 6 months, 2 years, 5 years?

So, take a step back from this for a second. What are the motivations, what is to be gained by each party that you've called out? What do politicians (of all manner of economic ideology around the world) and the people within the media (again, from the whole gamut of the political spectrum) gain from encouraging people to be vaccinated?

It's just a phrase. You have a carbon footprint, I have a carbon footprint. The word doesn't try to do anything, it might be used to blame, it's also equally used because it's quicker than saying "the amount of carbon that an individual uses in their day-to-day life". If anything I would say being aware of it enables us to make better choices, to force change upwards by showing businesses that we care about how much carbon we are responsible for, by choosing products and services based on their carbon impact over cost.

Also, we have more responsibility for the amount of carbon that we consume when compared to the average Chinese person because we enjoy a better quality of life, for no reason other than having the good fortune to be born where we were.

 

It isn't something that should be lauded. You do your bit and expect others to do theirs. Every man for themselves is a route to ruin for everyone.

I'm not sure why so many people don't seem to have a sense of social responsibility when the only reason we live the way we do is because of the society we live in. We aren't hunter-gatherers anymore, and if we were most of us would be fucked. If society breaks down, then so does our individual way of life.

I'm not scared and even if I was, that's my own business. I'm not scared of the virus anyway, I know that. I don't think healthy people need the vaccine. Same with kids. They do need to do better, its 37% effective against the delta variant. How would you not think that needs to be improved on? Is that not the essence of science? To improve on things? 

What do they gain? Money in many instances. The pharma industry has been lobbying and paying doctors, politicians and the media for years. I'm sure in many instances, like you, they think they are doing the right thing though and being overly pious about this is the norm. People in the medical profession have been fired and ostracized for saying lockdowns are bad, let alone the vaccines raising concerns. It seems only one type of "expert" should be believed though and that's the experts who tow the official line. 

Me injecting this experimental vaccine into me isn't going to change anything. Yes,it is experimental because,as you said, it was brought out super fast and the long term effects have not being studied. Kids who they gave the Sars vaccine too started developing narcolepsy two years later-did you know this? Ok to say if you didn't. My family have gotten the vaccine, so obviously I hope nothing like that happens with these vaccines. To completely shut down discussion that this is a possibility is wrong. 

This divisive propoganda around who is vaccinated and who isnt is a far bigger threat to societal cohesion than everybodyl being vaccinated. Israel is the most vaccinated country in the world and they had their most cases ever yesterday. The reality is vaccinated or not, most people don't get sick. 

I'll ask you so, if someone had the virus last week and were fine, should they get vaccinated? And why? 

Edited by Bigdoggsteel
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2 hours ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

I'll ask you so, if someone had the virus last week and were fine, should they get vaccinated? And why? 

Yes (though potentially only 1 jab, as per the studies in France et al so the vaccines can be shared around better) to reduce transmission.

So not for them. For other people. I don't get why that point is so hard to understand.

 

2 hours ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

I don't think healthy people need the vaccine. Same with kids. They do need to do better, its 37% effective against the delta variant. How would you not think that needs to be improved on? Is that not the essence of science? To improve on things? 

It can and will be improved. No vaccine is 100% effective and if we don't vaccinate and allow covid to continue to spread uninhibited then we will get more variants, that the vaccines are even less effective against. It's an arms race... But none of that is the point; you were saying, you won't get the jab because you shouldn't have to, it should be so effective that only the vulnerable need to get it. Which just simply isn't how vaccination works.

 

2 hours ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Me injecting this experimental vaccine into me isn't going to change anything.

It would if everyone said that. But it won't matter because enough other people will get the jab. Don't worry, at least you'll be fine regardless.

 

2 hours ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Kids who they gave the Sars vaccine too started developing narcolepsy two years later-did you know this? Ok to say if you didn't. 

I didn't. But had I, it wouldn't have changed anything. I wasn't getting that vaccine.

And I notice, knowing that didn't stop you advocating other people getting the jab - the vulnerable. Surely if you're that worried about its potential impact on others, you would say no one should get it and we should still be locked inside until tests have been carried out for decades.

 

2 hours ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

This divisive propoganda around who is vaccinated and who isnt is a far bigger threat to societal cohesion than everybodyl being vaccinated.

That's rubbish, how do you think society works? Social pressure has always existed, it's one of the reasons for our success as a species. You can't have a well founded opinion on everything, so you go along with the consensus. Social pressure is the reason we do or don't do so much, laws and consequence aren't the reason I don't walk around town naked, laws and consequence aren't the reason I don't steal.

 

2 hours ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Israel is the most vaccinated country in the world and they had their most cases ever yesterday. The reality is vaccinated or not, most people don't get sick. 

I'm not really sure what you're saying anymore. Being vaccinated reduces the likelihood of illness and severe illness. That's indisputable. Most people don't get sick no, no one has ever said they do.

 

2 hours ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

I'm not scared and even if I was, that's my own business. I'm not scared of the virus anyway, I know that.

So it takes 30 minutes to get vaccinated. You won't get it either because you're scared of what might happen to you (legitimately or not) or because you're too lazy to spend those 30 minutes. It's as simple as that, anything else is just window dressing to make yourself feel better.

No judgement if you are scared (maybe an underlying health concern, or a fear of needles or whatever) and it's obviously your business. But if it's business you want to keep private, don't start talking to people about it on a public forum.

Edited by XLM
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  • Moderation Lead

I feel like I’ve said this before, but it clearly bears repeating. My scientist best mate told me that the reason the vaccine was developed so quickly is because it was all hands on deck in the scientific community. 
Personally, I’m happy to trust a scientist when it comes to the safety of a vaccine…..

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