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It's certainly a fine balance. I can understand (to a point) people's unwillingness to get the vaccine, with possible side-effects, variable efficiacy reports, the lack of immunity etc.

But there should be no complaints about having to get tested. If a company has random drug-testing, and an employee declines the test, what happens? At my current place of work, we have to do one (LFD) test for every two shifts we do. We can opt out, but by doing so, we don't qualify for wages lost in the event of a positive test and subsequent self-isolation.

On another point, my daughter's school has sent out three notifications this week about students who have tested positive. No more than a handful of parents (myself included) were wearing masks at drop off and pick-up today. This is going to get worse before it gets better.

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We're in Switzerland atm after returning from France. In both countries you have to show covid passports to get into restaurants, hotels, onto some trains etc and you have to wear a mask in all public places indoors. Passports can be 2 vaccines, a negative test within 2 days or a certificate of recovery. Seems to work. Cases are low and life is pretty much normal. We've had our vaccination certificate refused a couple of times but mostly it's been fine

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4 hours ago, gumboots said:

We're in Switzerland atm after returning from France. In both countries you have to show covid passports to get into restaurants, hotels, onto some trains etc and you have to wear a mask in all public places indoors. Passports can be 2 vaccines, a negative test within 2 days or a certificate of recovery. Seems to work. Cases are low and life is pretty much normal. We've had our vaccination certificate refused a couple of times but mostly it's been fine

Doesn't sound fine to me? 

PS I'm a pro vaxxer

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In what way? Nobody here seems to have a problem. They accept paper copies and not just phones so old people, poor peopleand others who may not have access to smart phones don't miss out. It's not just the vaccinated who are allowed in. You can still eat outside at restaurants without one, just not inside. And considering their cases are low, you can't really say they are wrong.

In a population of nearly 400k they had 50 cases last week. In the Ribble Valley, with a population of less than 60k, we had 450+

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12 hours ago, gumboots said:

They accept paper copies and not just phones so old people, poor peopleand others who may not have access to smart phones don't miss out.

Add to that group the people who do not want an unnecessary privacy-invading app installed on their phones that companies can use as an opportunity to track you and sell that data on to marketing companies and who knows where else. Why these apps need privacy policies in the first place is beyond me.

Little rant incoming...

I remember early on in the pandemic when reading social media posts along the lines of "we'll be a different type of humanity once we get through this". No. We won't. It'll be the same old shit. Sure, the pandemic has seen acts of kindness and people helping others, but it's also shown up appalling traits - namely of greed: government contract cronyism; unreliable testing kits sold to governments at extortionate and exploitative rates; PCR rip-offs; governments that cannot bring themselves to work with each other on an international stage when we needed a global strategy; businesses that are little-affected by the pandemic yet are able to take advantage of government loan schemes at the expense of the taxpayer when they simply don't need it (I know of somebody who outright bragged about this and was able to invest for personal profit by it); Wayne Couzens allegedly using Coronavirus rules as a law enforcer to fulfil his disgusting fantasy and take the life of Sarah Everard. I'm sure there are countless more things that I may have sadly forgotten about, and for balance I'm sure there are also a number of positive actions that people and businesses took that I haven't mentioned, but in short, nothing at all has changed, and in fact I think it triggered a lot of horrible selfishness. We're generally selfish creatures and we all buy into it - now more than ever.

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  • Backroom
On 11/06/2021 at 15:44, Ewood Ace said:

What credible scientific theories have you seen to make you think 50% that the lab theory is plausible. 

Here's a good summary from a credible source for you:

https://jamiemetzl.com/origins-of-sars-cov-2/

He's gone higher at 85%:

 "If forced to place odds on the confidence of my hypothesis, I would say there’s an 85% chance the pandemic started with an accidental leak from the Wuhan Institute of Virology (or Wuhan CDC) and a 15% chance it began in some other way.."

 

Have a skim through,  see if we can shift you from that 100% standpoint of yours. 

 

I also see a report out today how China doubled their PCR testing capabilities in the summer of 2019. Feels like either something had already begun, or they knew what was coming:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.smh.com.au/world/asia/spending-on-pcr-tests-in-china-soared-months-before-covid-19-revealed-20211005-p58x89.html

 

“We have come to the conclusion that based on the data analysed it suggests the virus was highly likely to be spreading virulently in Wuhan, China as early as the summer of 2019 and definitely by the early autumn,” the report states.

 

Hmmm, early autumn, that rings a bell. Oh yeah, the exact time the Wuhan lab deleted and hid all their data that had been available for public viewing for years. 🤔

Now, I'm off back to my bunker, there's a tin foil hat feeling lonely. 😉

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Just had my first PCR test, I'm very surprised how efficient the process is. The hardest thing is booking the thing. Took me about 10 mins to book it and only about 20 mins to leave the house drive there, do the test, get petrol and drive back. That was half 4 yesterday and the result came back at 10 today (negative). Very efficient process but suppose it should be for the money thrown at it. 

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A number of posters denied that the first lockdown was too late. Following the science apparently.

Sky news…

BREAKING: A government report says the UK's #COVID19 vaccination programme is "one of the most effective initiatives in UK history" and the delay to the first lockdown was a "serious error".

Also, the thousands of care homes deaths were avoidable. 

 

Edited by den
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The Mail sniffs the wind of public opinion and it's clearly decided that time is running out for Johnson and his government. It's not the first time the paper has laid into the Tories in recent weeks

Can the red wallers read though and will it make any difference if they could?

Their narrative is that Johnson "did a good job" during the pandemic and the government deserved sympathy because it "had never happened before".

 

 

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1 hour ago, den said:

A number of posters denied that the first lockdown was too late. Following the science apparently.

Sky news…

BREAKING: A government report says the UK's #COVID19 vaccination programme is "one of the most effective initiatives in UK history" and the delay to the first lockdown was a "serious error".

Also, the thousands of care homes deaths were avoidable. 

 

2 Conservative MP's chaired the Committee too Den!

 MP's found the government and health authorities had a "fatalistic" approach to the outbreak and simply waited for herd

immunity to occur. Also vigourously denied on here.

Just waiting to be told I had the benefit of "hindsight."!!

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7 hours ago, den said:

A number of posters denied that the first lockdown was too late. Following the science apparently.

Sky news…

BREAKING: A government report says the UK's #COVID19 vaccination programme is "one of the most effective initiatives in UK history" and the delay to the first lockdown was a "serious error".

Also, the thousands of care homes deaths were avoidable. 

 

And by a strange coincidence Johnson is sunning himself in Marbella when this report comes out. No doubt his munchkins will have to face the press rather than the captain of the ship.

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6 hours ago, jim mk2 said:

Can the red wallers read though and will it make any difference if they could?

Their narrative is that Johnson "did a good job" during the pandemic and the government deserved sympathy because it "had never happened before".

Johnson has been exempt from scrutiny because he "Got Brexit Done". Starmer couldn't attack the government last year because the media and Brexiters would have slaughtered him.

The public and the media can enable a strong opposition. Can we please get serious now and have this pound shop government held to account?

 

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9 hours ago, 47er said:

 

Just waiting to be told I had the benefit of "hindsight."!!

Refer them to this clip from GMB this morning.

The government were being given messages from around the world to lock down early and lock down hard. They ignored them. 
 

 

Edited by den
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It's also refusing to apologise.

Minister refuses 11 times to say sorry

https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-minister-refuses-to-apologise-for-governments-pandemic-handling-as-report-says-errors-cost-thousands-of-lives-12431837

The short diagnosis of the government's failures is English exceptionalism. It is deadly and it is also this condition that has driven us to Brexit and a government that is dangerously packed with English exceptionalists.

 

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2 hours ago, den said:

Refer them to this clip from GMB this morning.

The government were being given messages from around the world to lock down early and lock down hard. They ignored them. 
 

 

We locked down earlier, but not hard enough with flights etc, but it was all the one, we still had a huge incidence of cases in January 2021. A harsh, sharp , total lockdown wouldn't have even made a difference and the alternative was one that went on for months(which we had), this leads to all the negative aspects that come from lockdowns, which are arguably more damaging than the virus. Mental health issues, increased suicide , ongoing financial worries, we don't know the half of it yet. 

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None of this requires hindsight; it was very obvious at the time. Doing things differently to countries with more experience of viral epidemics is not being innovative, it’s simply incompetence.

Austerity, Brexit, Covid.  A hat trick of Tory incompetence and mendacity, fuelled by English exceptionalism. Who in their right mind would continue to vote for them - really? 

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27 minutes ago, den said:

Another one….

Tuesday’s FINANCIAL TIMES: “Herd immunity ‘group think’ led to ‘public health failure,’ MPs find” #TomorrowsPapersToday

Let me save you the trouble, herd immunity was never government or public health policy.

You’ve got a tin ear den 😉

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20 minutes ago, Gav said:

Let me save you the trouble, herd immunity was never government or public health policy.

You’ve got a tin ear den 😉

I can read though Gav. It’s in the report.

so my only decision is who to believe. You or the select committee?

Edited by den
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https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-a-slap-in-the-face-families-of-pandemic-victims-attack-mps-report-and-call-for-judge-led-inquiry-12432268

A passage from the report:

 

Ms Brady also criticised a passage in the report that said the success of the vaccine rollout had "redeemed many of the persistent failings of other parts of the national response".

How insensitive of these people who wrote this report. I would be absolutely seething if one of my family had died and then had to read something like that.

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