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The raw numbers suggest a lockdown is really unlikely. It would have to take off in a huge way which is unlikely given the open way society has been working and that it hasn't really taken off exponentially yet. If jt was going to it would have by now.

Masks could come back though imo.

Next few weeks critical as impact of boosters, vaccination of kids and general reinfection, all boost immunity which could lead to cases dropping off again counter intuitively for those looking and thinking winter = ever more cases. It's a very complex picture and it's very hard to say exactly what could happen. No one really has a scooby.

Edited by joey_big_nose
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In fairness, I've not seen a drop in mask wearing at work since the initial drop in July. I'd say 1 in 2 of our customers are still wearing masks.

I personally am still maintaining a distance from most people and keep a mask on my person in case of crowding.

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13 hours ago, den said:

What did you think of this paragraph Gav? 
One email dated 22nd March 2020 shows Dr Jenny Harries, now Head of Test and Trace, and officials in the Department for Health, discussingthe fact that care homes on the ground did not want to take people from hospital without a negative test. Instead of listening and implementing testing, it appears the Government asked Dr Jenny Harries to issue statements to reassure worried care home staff ‘it’s safe to accept patients from hospital’. 

As history records, it wasn’t.

Did Jenny Harries issue that statement den do you know? I'd be very surprised if she did, it didn't take an expert in public health to know the consequences of those actions? But I wouldn't put it past the government to ask for support in that area, they had an obsession with clearing NHS beds for incoming patients.

I know 'someone' who attended most of the weekly downing street briefings throughout the pandemic, not the ones you saw on Tv, the Tuesday meetings with experts from across the country and it was commented on more than one occasion that Jenny Harries had lost sight of her role in all of this, in other words it was felt she was in the governments pocket and ignoring basic rules around public health. 

Thats just an opinion by the way.

Edited by Gav
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1 minute ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

They’re going to wait until the pressures become unsustainable before they act. Dogma is being allowed to get in the way of common sense.

Yes. I think it’s become political demonstrated by the refusal of every Tory MP to wear a mask at PMQ’s.

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45 minutes ago, den said:

Any thoughts on the refusal so far of not moving to plan B because the pressures on the NHS are not yet unsustainable?

Its a load of cobblers isn't it, they're loathed to put restrictions in place because its flies in the face of everything the Tories believe in. The likes of Duncan Smith and his mates would have had us open for business throughout the pandemic given half the chance, Javid is another.

Whether we like it or not, Johnson has actually fought off his backbenchers and kept us locked down more than the Tory party would have liked, I firmly believe that, but its not been enough, nowhere near enough.

 

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1 hour ago, den said:

Yes. I think it’s become political demonstrated by the refusal of every Tory MP to wear a mask at PMQ’s.

Just like America! All the Democrats wear masks ,whereas the Republicans don't.

As Biden put it "a mask is not a political statement".

 

 

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Michael Portillo this morning on GMB.

”I do think the government has set upon a policy of herd immunity although it hasn’t admitted it, which is different to every other country”. I can’t see how anyone could disagree with that.

Thousands of people are dieing of Covid every week in the UK. Most these are unvaccinated but the government do nothing. Shouldn’t the govt move now to doing two things..,

1) bring back the wearing of face masks and other minor infringements to our daily life

and

2) make a huge push to persuade those who haven’t been vaccinated to get vaccinated?

I think they’ll have to do that eventually. At the moment their own political dogma (as Tyrone says) is preventing it.

They are doing again what they’ve done at every stage - acting too slowly and it costs lives.
 

 

 

 

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13 hours ago, joey_big_nose said:

The raw numbers suggest a lockdown is really unlikely. It would have to take off in a huge way which is unlikely given the open way society has been working and that it hasn't really taken off exponentially yet. If jt was going to it would have by now.

Masks could come back though imo.

Next few weeks critical as impact of boosters, vaccination of kids and general reinfection, all boost immunity which could lead to cases dropping off again counter intuitively for those looking and thinking winter = ever more cases. It's a very complex picture and it's very hard to say exactly what could happen. No one really has a scooby.

Eugh. Do you have kids? 

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1 hour ago, 47er said:

Just like America! All the Democrats wear masks ,whereas the Republicans don't.

As Biden put it "a mask is not a political statement".

 

 

Nonsense 🙄 I know the media would have you believe everything is divided across neat categories like this, the realty is far more complex and nuanced, which is pretty obvious though, when you think about it. Plenty of Republican's wear masks and plenty of democrats don't. It isn't political , people make their choices based on a wide range of factors, contrary to what Sleepy/Creepy Joe might manage to occasionally coherently put out there 

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2 hours ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Nonsense 🙄 I know the media would have you believe everything is divided across neat categories like this, the realty is far more complex and nuanced, which is pretty obvious though, when you think about it. Plenty of Republican's wear masks and plenty of democrats don't. It isn't political , people make their choices based on a wide range of factors, contrary to what Sleepy/Creepy Joe might manage to occasionally coherently put out there 

Trump (a Republican) never took Coronavirus seriously, didn't encourage wearing face masks, and his followers took notice and mostly followed suit if photographs from rallies and the storming of the Capitol are anything to go by. Not all Republicans are fond of Trump, and they'll listen to the experts that are trying to protect us all, but the comments from @47er are not without reason.

Regarding the bit in bold, Coronavirus has been very political, and my previous paragraph exemplifies how. Didn't Trump call Coronavirus a hoax? Followed by "The China Virus"? Followed by a remark about drinking bleach? Followed by discouraging the wearing of face masks? Trump appeared to hold medical and scientific experts in contempt and was, instead, more interested in playing a blame game both inside and outside the US than looking for a global solution that might have seen us all in a far better position today. He's not the only culprit but he's the prime example of how Coronavirus has been made political as opposed to being treated for what it is - a fatal new virus that needed swift and collaborative action.

Edited by El Tombro
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2 hours ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Sleepy/Creepy Joe might manage to occasionally coherently put out there 

Give me Joe Biden any day of the week over that misogynistic, racists, incoherent, bumbling orange **** 👍

Joe Biden showed more presidential credentials in this one statement than Trump did in his entire time in office:

"A mask is not a political statement"

Thanks @47er for the posting that comment. 

Edited by Gav
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Johnathan Ashworth has just given an interview to a radio station saying Labour want to move to plan B, a Labour party spokesperson has immediately contradicted the shadow health secretary and said the Labour Party doesn't not want to move to plan B at all, they want to make plan A work.

They don't help themselves do they........

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10 hours ago, den said:

Michael Portillo this morning on GMB.

”I do think the government has set upon a policy of herd immunity although it hasn’t admitted it, which is different to every other country”. I can’t see how anyone could disagree with that.

Thousands of people are dieing of Covid every week in the UK. Most these are unvaccinated but the government do nothing. Shouldn’t the govt move now to doing two things..,

1) bring back the wearing of face masks and other minor infringements to our daily life

and

2) make a huge push to persuade those who haven’t been vaccinated to get vaccinated?

I think they’ll have to do that eventually. At the moment their own political dogma (as Tyrone says) is preventing it.

They are doing again what they’ve done at every stage - acting too slowly and it costs lives.
 

 

 

 

Yep---politics before science.

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19 hours ago, El Tombro said:

Trump (a Republican) never took Coronavirus seriously, didn't encourage wearing face masks, and his followers took notice and mostly followed suit if photographs from rallies and the storming of the Capitol are anything to go by. Not all Republicans are fond of Trump, and they'll listen to the experts that are trying to protect us all, but the comments from @47er are not without reason.

Regarding the bit in bold, Coronavirus has been very political, and my previous paragraph exemplifies how. Didn't Trump call Coronavirus a hoax? Followed by "The China Virus"? Followed by a remark about drinking bleach? Followed by discouraging the wearing of face masks? Trump appeared to hold medical and scientific experts in contempt and was, instead, more interested in playing a blame game both inside and outside the US than looking for a global solution that might have seen us all in a far better position today. He's not the only culprit but he's the prime example of how Coronavirus has been made political as opposed to being treated for what it is - a fatal new virus that needed swift and collaborative action.

So much nonsense , where to start. To keep it simple, Trump constantly sought to get plaudits for Operation warp speed. The partnership between his administration and Pharma , which led to the release of the vaccines. Is this or is this not true? 

What's wrong with calling it the China virus? That is where it came from. When it suited  the media variants were labelled "Indian" and "Kent" 

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17 hours ago, joey_big_nose said:

Yes I do? What of it?

They have MMR vaccines etc. No issue with these vaccines from my perspective.

Not the same. Those vaccines have been out for years and long term studies have been done, plus diseases are actually dangerous to kids. This is rushed out and kids are at practically zero risk from the virus. The rushed out swine flu vaccines led to children developing narcolepsy 2 years after taking it. Why do kids need it and don't say spreading variants, because there is no proof of that or that it's any more unlikely to occur in vaccinated people. 

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19 hours ago, Gav said:

Give me Joe Biden any day of the week over that misogynistic, racists, incoherent, bumbling orange **** 👍

Joe Biden showed more presidential credentials in this one statement than Trump did in his entire time in office:

"A mask is not a political statement"

Thanks @47er for the posting that comment. 

Biden is a laughing stock, he has achieved nothing beyond a higher death rate for Covid, with luxury of vaccines. All he has in his favour is the softly, softly nature of how the media report abut him. 

A number of political experts make Trump favourite for the next election. Fun times ahead! 

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26 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Because Trump said it, so therefore by default the media reported that it was racist and bad. 

King flu (trump) and vinda flu (twitter) are arguably closer to the line. But getting worked up over Chinese flu is Snowflake society at its best

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1 hour ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Biden is a laughing stock, he has achieved nothing.

How about appointing Kamala Harris as the first female, first black and first Asian-American US vice-president?

That is history in the making and on his first day as president!

 

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