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Gove on the TV this morning insinuating that further restrictions would depend on the Public's response to the current ones. Thereby shifting all blame away from the Government.

Meanwhile Tony Blair was on talking great sense (quite possibly for the first time ever) about how we needed to test everyone, and quite possibly some people several times over, so the Country could get back to work.

Quite bizarre times when you're reliant on a prominent Labour figure to protect everyone's personal freedom from a Conservative Government.

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False dichotomy alert. I don't quite see how the two are related. I mean it's not an either or is it? Given the furlough and mortgage schemes (both excellent btw) are already in place before Cumm

Have spent a couple of days thinking what to write on here as I am utterly bewildered as to what this so called government is up to regarding schools. Firstly, before Christmas my school had seve

as you know i dont post on here anymore but i will this once just to wish everyone the best and hope everyone stays safe and comes thru at the other side  of this sad mess.  i would also like to

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I find it strange that journos keep asking MPs how long we will be in lockdown for.

It has clearly been said 12 weeks to the peak. This is in line with them paying the nations wages for 3 months.

People getting fed up after a week inside. It is going to be 3 - 6 months inside. This is before we consider the second wave next winter.

Lockdown only going to get tighter over the coming weeks.

ID cards coming for all, which say if you have already had it or not.

 

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7 minutes ago, gumboots said:

I think it's the not knowing yet that means we need to take every precaution. We need a much clearer picture of what's going on before we can relax. I'm not uptight about it for myself. I think I may have already had it anyway, but even if I havent, then I'd take my chances with reasonable hand washing etc procedures. But I worry madly about others catching it from me. And until we know what is going on, I'm dont think we should take risks.

I'm sure that's right Gumboots.  It's probably a case of "We don't really know what we're doing with this but we've seen the worse case scenarios from the Academics (who are as much in the dark as they are) and to be on the safe side we'll lock  the elderly and infirm away completely and everyone else down.

It will be interesting to see if Sweden fare any better than the rest of the world by following what seems to be obvious and basic common sense rather than the doomsday predictions of the medics and I hope they stick to their guns.

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48 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

We don't know whether they're dying specifically because OF the virus or whether they're dying WITH the virus.

Or whether this is making a significant difference to the normal overall figures or even if it is, if it's a temporary spike comparable to a bad  outbreak of flu.

Or unless I'm very much mistaken whether a lockdown makes any difference at all as we don't know for certain how the virus is transmitted.

Given the uncertainty you highlight, why then would you rather risk those lives to go about your daily business, than be cautious in the hope it might just save some lives?

THAT is why I get annoyed.

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24 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Gove on the TV this morning insinuating that further restrictions would depend on the Public's response to the current ones. Thereby shifting all blame away from the Government.

Meanwhile Tony Blair was on talking great sense (quite possibly for the first time ever) about how we needed to test everyone, and quite possibly some people several times over, so the Country could get back to work.

Quite bizarre times when you're reliant on a prominent Labour figure to protect everyone's personal freedom from a Conservative Government.

Blair wasn't interested in ideology - left or right - only in what works and doesn't, the ultimate pragmatist. He would certainly have joined in the EU-wide ventilator scheme that Johnson's government refused to take part in because of Brexit. The likes of Johnson, Raab, Gove etc and pygmies in comparison. 

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COVID-19 and the NHS—“a national scandal”
 

“When this is all over, the NHS England board should resign in their entirety.” So wrote one National Health Service (NHS) health worker last weekend. The scale of anger and frustration is unprecedented, and coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) is the cause. The UK Government's Contain–Delay–Mitigate–Research strategy failed. It failed, in part, because ministers didn't follow WHO's advice to “test, test, test” every suspected case. They didn't isolate and quarantine. They didn't contact trace. These basic principles of public health and infectious disease control were ignored, for reasons that remain opaque. The UK now has a new plan—Suppress–Shield–Treat–Palliate. But this plan, agreed far too late in the course of the outbreak, has left the NHS wholly unprepared for the surge of severely and critically ill patients that will soon come.
 

The NHS has been wholly unprepared for this pandemic. It's impossible to understand why. Based on their modelling of the Wuhan outbreak of COVID-19, Joseph Wu and his colleagues wrote in The Lancet on Jan 31, 2020: “On the present trajectory, 2019-nCoV could be about to become a global epidemic…for health protection within China and internationally…preparedness plans should be readied for deployment at short notice, including securing supply chains of pharmaceuticals, personal protective equipment, hospital supplies, and the necessary human resources to deal with the consequences of a global outbreak of this magnitude.” This warning wasn't made lightly. It should have been read by the Chief Medical Officer, the Chief Executive Officer of the NHS in England, and the Chief Scientific Adviser. They had a duty to immediately put the NHS and British public on high alert.

February should have been used to expand coronavirus testing capacity, ensure the distribution of WHO-approved PPE, and establish training programmes and guidelines to protect NHS staff. They didn't take any of those actions. The result has been chaos and panic across the NHS. Patients will die unnecessarily. NHS staff will die unnecessarily.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)30727-3/fulltext

 

 

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51 minutes ago, OldEwoodBlue said:

I find it strange that journos keep asking MPs how long we will be in lockdown for.

It has clearly been said 12 weeks to the peak. This is in line with them paying the nations wages for 3 months.

People getting fed up after a week inside. It is going to be 3 - 6 months inside. This is before we consider the second wave next winter.

Lockdown only going to get tighter over the coming weeks.

ID cards coming for all, which say if you have already had it or not.

 

12 weeks? We have been told it's 2-3 here. 

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58 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Gove on the TV this morning insinuating that further restrictions would depend on the Public's response to the current ones. Thereby shifting all blame away from the Government.

Meanwhile Tony Blair was on talking great sense (quite possibly for the first time ever) about how we needed to test everyone, and quite possibly some people several times over, so the Country could get back to work.

Quite bizarre times when you're reliant on a prominent Labour figure to protect everyone's personal freedom from a Conservative Government.

You don't have to be the sharpest knife in the box to realise that mass repeated testing is the only way out of the crisis ultimately.

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13 hours ago, den said:

There are plenty of people still working who shouldn’t be. 

I went for an hour's walk on my own yesterday just to stretch my legs. I gave everybody I met ( not many to be honest ) a large swerve. Not far from me there is a small building site were builders are building about a dozen bungalows. Some are finished, but at least half I'd say are almost finished. One has already got a " sold " sign up outside. This is Saturday afternoon about 1-30 pm. There was a group of about 5 builders working on the unfinished bungalows. Now given the fact that nobody will be looking to buy a bungalow in at least the next 3 to 6 months, possibly even 12 months, why are these blokes working ?

Maintaining a safe distance is almost impossible in those circumstances. I've worked in a gang onsite and you're always borrowing each others tools etc You just can't hope to prevent contamination for any length of time.

Edited by Tyrone Shoelaces
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47 minutes ago, jim mk2 said:

Blair wasn't interested in ideology - left or right - only in what works and doesn't, the ultimate pragmatist. He would certainly have joined in the EU-wide ventilator scheme that Johnson's government refused to take part in because of Brexit. The likes of Johnson, Raab, Gove etc and pygmies in comparison. 

For once I agree with you

Edited by Dreams of 1995
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17 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

@chaddyrovers this is a follow on from the tweet you shared the other day. Maybe you missed the update.

 

Screenshot_20200329-133148_Twitter.jpg

23,200 winter deaths last year in England & Wales. Lowest for years.

The year before it was 50,100.

So maybe this is a big drama about nothing or just a worldwide social experiment. 

 

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People are still dying from various causes not linked to Covid19, that hasn't stopped, it’s just not being reported.

Morgues are at capacity in many places also which tells its own story. 

 

 

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now that made me laugh.... yes she has heart and lung problems and started with symptoms  last friday and have been on lockdown 9 days i think seems like 900 but  for the best . We live with 90 year old mum in law as well . She had raging temp and sore throat . Temp gone now  but throat still sore but its more like a cold now with the runny nose and stuff. Im off work until next monday and then back as openreach are key workers and frankly and politly im shitting it going back.

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30 minutes ago, OldEwoodBlue said:

23,200 winter deaths last year in England & Wales. Lowest for years.

The year before it was 50,100.

So maybe this is a big drama about nothing or just a worldwide social experiment. 

 

No,it's not "a big drama about nothing". The estimates in the piece I shared are based off pretty much de-facto lockdown arrangements , if everyone was continuing on as normal they estimated up to 500,000 could die in the UK. 

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Just now, Hasta said:

Am i right in thinking Ireland stopped non-essential work on Friday?

To be honest since the pubs and restaurants closed , the majority have been working from home, but ya officially full lockdown barring essential services since Friday. I think the pubs and restaurants closed about 2 and a half weeks ago. This just feels like the longest month ever. 

The building sites were the last to go. People weren't happy they were still operating. 

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1 hour ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

12 weeks? We have been told it's 2-3 here. 

Every country on a 12-14 week curve to the peak but Ireland sending it packing in a fortnight. Wow. Well done. Then of course theres the curve back down the other side for the rest of us.

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Actually no, people are working at home since the creches and schools closed. A lot of employers allowed it so people could mind their kids. That was maybe 3 weeks ago. Again this just feels like the longest month in history. I remember when they canceled the Ireland Italy rugby game and that feels like it was months ago , it was actually this month. Crazy. 

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1 minute ago, OldEwoodBlue said:

Every country on a 12-14 week curve to the peak but Ireland sending it packing in a fortnight. Wow. Well done. Then of course theres the curve back down the other side for the rest of us.

No need to be an arse. Nobody is "sending it packing in a fortnight". A number of professionals have said they expect it to peak here in mid April. 

I'm not sure you understand what you are talking about with regards timeframes and peaks. I certainly don't think it will be 12-14 weeks before the UK hits the peak, so I am wondering where you got that info? 

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31 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

No need to be an arse. Nobody is "sending it packing in a fortnight". A number of professionals have said they expect it to peak here in mid April. 

I'm not sure you understand what you are talking about with regards timeframes and peaks. I certainly don't think it will be 12-14 weeks before the UK hits the peak, so I am wondering where you got that info? 

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-uk-can-turn-tide-in-next-12-weeks-boris-johnson-says-11960443

 

Boris said we hope to turn the tide in 12 weeks.

Vulnerable told to stay isolated for minimum 12 weeks.

Financial support for workers is for initially 3 months (13 weeks).

Schools closed until September.

They are saying the first effects on cases from the lockdown should be seen after 2-3 weeks. Bear in mind we are not in full lockdown yet. Just the early stages of.

The timelines in Italy, Spain, etc are the preview to what we will see. We are 2 weeks behind them.

Football is saying they hope to restart in June but not guaranteed.

Scotland lockdown is announced as 13 weeks minimum.

 

I haven't seen anywhere saying we might be allowed out in 2-3 weeks pal.

 

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-britain-peak-idUSKBN20Z33X

 

Edited by OldEwoodBlue
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1 hour ago, ABBEY said:

now that made me laugh.... yes she has heart and lung problems and started with symptoms  last friday and have been on lockdown 9 days i think seems like 900 but  for the best . We live with 90 year old mum in law as well . She had raging temp and sore throat . Temp gone now  but throat still sore but its more like a cold now with the runny nose and stuff. Im off work until next monday and then back as openreach are key workers and frankly and politly im shitting it going back.

Wishing you all well, Abs

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