Summer Transfer Window

[tomphil 12714]

Football clubs cost a lot of money they learned that quickly and they should have bailed out quickly. At least 100 million of that 200 million has been thrown directly down the tubes so no sympathy whatsoever. They create the mess they pay for it and it isn't morals or principle or being generous it's just arrogance "we can afford it so we'll do it".

They get off on it and presumably get some enjoyment out of it whilst their finance whizzes have found a nice niche for the oversees loss maker within their group of companies.

Lets not pretend it's anything other than it is and it's still a great vehicle for those in the middle who've got their feet firmly under the table to take advantage of. 

[Paul Mani 3161]

Just now, Amo said:

You don't need to flat out state your gratitude for the Venky's. It's implicit every time you make excuses for them.

And I’m absolutely devastated that you feel that way about me, honest ?

[47er 8875]

3 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

t's irrelevant whether the cash would still have been here now or not, no-one could have predicted Covid a year ago and the money WAS given to him, and if you're being very charitable, it could have been spent better.

 

In reality its hard to think how the money could have been spent worse. In our poor circumstances, an absolute disaster.

[Crimpshrine 1237]

16 minutes ago, Paul Mani said:

All conjecture. Stick with the point. People still banging on about ‘the budget’ a weird Rovers thing. Even when Sharpe and others are openly saying we’re making offers to and for players.

We have signed nobody - so the offers we are making are being turned down?

Why is that if Venky's never refuse to provide money when asked?

[Miller11 2663]

Venky’s continuing to put the money in makes perfect sense!

They run a conglomerate worth upwards of 2 billion. Part of that conglomerate, and that value is their £200 odd million shareholding in BRFC.
 

They liquidate Rovers tomorrow, that wipes £200 million plus off the value of VH group.

We need a £10 million signing, they move some money around, send it over to Rovers account, and in a month or two convert it to an extra 10 million shares. They lose nothing.

Obviously in real terms the club is not worth north of £200 million, but it has that value to them. This isn’t food off their plates, rollers out of their garages or the chains of Balaji’s neck. It’s certainly not altruism either. It’s common sense for billionaires.

That said, it can’t carry on indefinitely... and then being able to find an exit strategy that doesn’t cost them seems impossibly far away. God knows when, why or how breaking point will arrive.

[Paul Mani 3161]

Just now, tomphil said:

Football clubs cost a lot of money they learned that quickly and they should have bailed out quickly. At least 100 million of that 200 million has been thrown directly down the tubes so no sympathy whatsoever. They create the mess they pay for it and it isn't morals or principle or being generous it's just arrogance "we can afford it so we'll do it".

They get off on it and presumably get some enjoyment out of it whilst their finance whizzes have found a nice niche for the oversees loss maker within their group of companies.

Lets not pretend it's anything other than it is and it's still a great vehicle for those in the middle who've got their feet firmly under the table to take advantage of. 

Yes, yes, yes!! This is exactly how I feel. It’s just weird that they’ve kept the lights on AND given the manager money whilst not selling his assets! Which give the impression that they DO care, even though we know they don’t....

If you speak to anyone around The club they say the same...like last summer with Jonty and the investment in all that new kit...thousands of pounds...signed off, no problems. 

[Paul Mani 3161]

2 minutes ago, Crimpshrine said:

We have signed nobody - so the offers we are making are being turned down?

Why is that if Venky's never refuse to provide money when asked?

I don’t know. Maybe ffp worries. Cheston and Waggot the gatekeepers...even in the fans forum they eluded to unspent money and trying to prevent the owners from getting too excited with the money they were willing to invest..

[Paul Mani 3161]

1 minute ago, Miller11 said:

Venky’s continuing to put the money in makes perfect sense!

They run a conglomerate worth upwards of 2 billion. Part of that conglomerate, and that value is their £200 odd million shareholding in BRFC.
 

They liquidate Rovers tomorrow, that wipes £200 million plus off the value of VH group.

We need a £10 million signing, they move some money around, send it over to Rovers account, and in a month or two convert it to an extra 10 million shares. They lose nothing.

Obviously in real terms the club is not worth north of £200 million, but it has that value to them. This isn’t food off their plates, rollers out of their garages or the chains of Balaji’s neck. It’s certainly not altruism either. It’s common sense for billionaires.

That said, it can’t carry on indefinitely... and then being able to find an exit strategy that doesn’t cost them seems impossibly far away. God knows when, why or how breaking point will arrive.

Maybe you’ve solved it! Makes sense and would explain why they pump shit loads of money into something they don’t care about.

[roversfan99 8586]

Dont know if this is of interest to anyone but it shows the goals for and against with various players playing. Obviously flawed because many players may not have played that many games, but those who play every week will be if anything of less value as they will be average.

Stand out for me is Cunningham and how good he is for our defensive record. Nothing we didnt know but would love him back. Lenihan important in that regard too. Brereton bringing in some Kevin Keegan style football at both ends.

Sheffield Wednesday despite his mistakes concede much less with Westwood than with Wildsmith and presumably Dawson.

Stoke concede plenty and Lindsay doesmt come off well. More solid with Chester in the team.

[Exiled_Rover 2205]

13 minutes ago, Miller11 said:

Venky’s continuing to put the money in makes perfect sense!

They run a conglomerate worth upwards of 2 billion. Part of that conglomerate, and that value is their £200 odd million shareholding in BRFC.
 

They liquidate Rovers tomorrow, that wipes £200 million plus off the value of VH group.

We need a £10 million signing, they move some money around, send it over to Rovers account, and in a month or two convert it to an extra 10 million shares. They lose nothing.

Obviously in real terms the club is not worth north of £200 million, but it has that value to them. This isn’t food off their plates, rollers out of their garages or the chains of Balaji’s neck. It’s certainly not altruism either. It’s common sense for billionaires.

That said, it can’t carry on indefinitely... and then being able to find an exit strategy that doesn’t cost them seems impossibly far away. God knows when, why or how breaking point will arrive.

I'm not a money guy - so I just texted my friend, who's a Financial Director. He couldn't explain why they'd continue throwing money at it either: "it might be worth £200m on a balance sheet, but that's not a reason to continue throwing money at it" were his exact words. 

Their ownership of the club is just.... baffling. Either they have F you money, or they pretend to have F you money and eventually this house of cards comes crashing down. 

Edited August 20, 2020 by Exiled_Rover

[Hoochie Bloochie Mama 5013]

41 minutes ago, Paul Mani said:

It’s a weird set up. Always has been...I don’t know how much autonomy Mowbray has but bearing in mind they’ve backed him with roughly £15m in fees and not sold any of the Crown Jewels other than Raya and that was defo Mowbrays decision - I’d say he’s pretty well I’m there, wouldn’t you? 

Do you genuinely have the inside track at the club? 

[Hoochie Bloochie Mama 5013]

43 minutes ago, Paul Mani said:

That’s it though....weirdly they don’t just pay the bills. They’ve given the manager money to spend and invested in the Cat A academy...why bother? Why not just pay the basics and keep the lights on? I don’t know the answers btw 

 

1 hour ago, Paul Mani said:

Without going back over what went on with those who shall not be named it’s quite clear to anyone with a bit of sense that V’s were sold a pup. Lots of bad decisions and political agendas later we’re still in the shit (and most of it is V’s fault) BUT one things for sure EVERY single time they need to put their hands in their pocket they do....speak to some of those directors if you can. Based on what I’ve heard I’ll guess they’ll prob say, absolutely mental set up but in fairness, they never refuse to pay...

Thats why you have Sharpe and Crooke saying in spite of COVid, ffp, no sponsors, no season tickets etc...that Waggot and Mowbray and then club’ seem “relaxed” about the money....that’s because they all talk about the fact that the owners WILL pay when it comes to the crunch 

Bowyer did an interview after he left Rovers. He stated he was forced to sell Gestede by the owners and then the day after was told he had to achieve the play-offs. I don't for a minute buy the fact they always cough up the money when asked by managers. 

As for paying the bills, if they didn't they wouldn't have a club. 

Edited August 20, 2020 by Hoochie Bloochie Mama

[Miller11 2663]

3 minutes ago, Exiled_Rover said:

I'm not a money guy - so I just texted my friend, who's a Financial Director. He couldn't explain why they'd continue throwing money at it either: "it might be worth £200m on a balance sheet, but that's not a reason to continue throwing money at it" were his exact words. 

Their ownership of the club is just.... baffling. Either they have F you money, or they pretend to have F you money and eventually this house of cards comes crashing down. 

But if they stop throwing money at it, it ceases to be worth anything on a balance sheet as we cease to function. I think they are in too deep to cut their losses, but not deep enough to have to!

[Hoochie Bloochie Mama 5013]

2 minutes ago, Miller11 said:

But if they stop throwing money at it, it ceases to be worth anything on a balance sheet as we cease to function. I think they are in too deep to cut their losses, but not deep enough to have to!

I'd imagine that's exactly why they do it. They'd also make every penny back after a couple of seasons in the Prem. 

[Miller11 2663]

Just now, Hoochie Bloochie Mama said:

I'd imagine that's exactly why they do it. They'd also make every penny back after a couple of seasons in the Prem. 

Yep, that is the one exit strategy. You’d think there would be a bit more urgency 

[RevidgeBlue 7870]

2 hours ago, Paul Mani said:

Ahhh, I see it’s been confirmed by the LET and Sheffield examiner that we’ve made inquiries for Westwood. Odd considering ‘it’s obvious’ that Mowbray doesn’t know his budget!? ???

But no offer which would tend to indicate he's not within our 'budget" whatever it may be. 

We could 'enquire" about Lionel Messi but I doubt we'd get very far!

If we had an adequate budget to land the players we wanted you'd imagine the first time we'd be hearing about it would be after they'd signed.

Edited August 21, 2020 by RevidgeBlue

[Tom 10674]

5 hours ago, bluebruce said:

Jeez, what a waste of space...doesnt look like that thing could be used for anything practical. Just for leaning on whilst you admire the view I assume.

Bruce, forgive me but I need to ask.

Did you think the white thing was a large futuristic leaning spot with the brown being the floor?

I wish it was but Its a lamp, a small lamp, on a table

 

[bluebruce 4457]

Just now, Tom said:

Bruce, forgive me but I need to ask.

Did you think the white thing was a large futuristic leaning spot with the brown being the floor?

I wish it was but Its a lamp, a small lamp, on a table

 

Hah, that makes way more sense now ? Feel daft now but yeh the angle etc made me think it was a huge window with some weird leaning spot. Hey I don't know how the upper classes live, fine sitting on the economy class with the scum

[Tom 10674]

6 minutes ago, bluebruce said:

Hah, that makes way more sense now ? Feel daft now but yeh the angle etc made me think it was a huge window with some weird leaning spot. Hey I don't know how the upper classes live, fine sitting on the economy class with the scum

Brill 

Funnily enough I once bumped into Steve Waggott on one of those trains, he was in standard class, on the first off peak out of London, had the same idea as me and saved a few quid!

[Traviscon 284]

Maybe there's the option to drop the offer to Downing who doesn't seem interested, to give Westwood a decent wage (less than the reported 30k he's on). It's what I'd do if I was Mowbray. 

[RevidgeBlue 7870]

2 hours ago, Miller11 said:

Venky’s continuing to put the money in makes perfect sense!

They run a conglomerate worth upwards of 2 billion. Part of that conglomerate, and that value is their £200 odd million shareholding in BRFC.
 

They liquidate Rovers tomorrow, that wipes £200 million plus off the value of VH group.

We need a £10 million signing, they move some money around, send it over to Rovers account, and in a month or two convert it to an extra 10 million shares. They lose nothing.

Obviously in real terms the club is not worth north of £200 million, but it has that value to them. This isn’t food off their plates, rollers out of their garages or the chains of Balaji’s neck. It’s certainly not altruism either. It’s common sense for billionaires.

That said, it can’t carry on indefinitely... and then being able to find an exit strategy that doesn’t cost them seems impossibly far away. God knows when, why or how breaking point will arrive.

Don't know if it's just me or not but that explanation still doesn't make any sense to me whatsoever unless they're worth way way more than £2 billion, I'd suggest that a loss making liability that on paper formed as much as 10% of your net worth would be a massive concern.

If it formed a far smaller percentage of your business empire, maybe not quite so much.

[JacknOry 4721]

1 hour ago, Traviscon said:

Maybe there's the option to drop the offer to Downing who doesn't seem interested, to give Westwood a decent wage (less than the reported 30k he's on). It's what I'd do if I was Mowbray. 

That would be the logical thing to do. Downing was good prelockdown but there is no guarantee he will be as good due to being a year older. We also have more depth in midfield so can get by without him. I would definitely trade him in for a goalkeeper of Westwoods experience for a couple of seasons.

[Crimpshrine 1237]

7 hours ago, Miller11 said:

Venky’s continuing to put the money in makes perfect sense!

They run a conglomerate worth upwards of 2 billion. Part of that conglomerate, and that value is their £200 odd million shareholding in BRFC.
 

They liquidate Rovers tomorrow, that wipes £200 million plus off the value of VH group.

We need a £10 million signing, they move some money around, send it over to Rovers account, and in a month or two convert it to an extra 10 million shares. They lose nothing.

Obviously in real terms the club is not worth north of £200 million, but it has that value to them. This isn’t food off their plates, rollers out of their garages or the chains of Balaji’s neck. It’s certainly not altruism either. It’s common sense for billionaires.

That said, it can’t carry on indefinitely... and then being able to find an exit strategy that doesn’t cost them seems impossibly far away. God knows when, why or how breaking point will arrive.

I really can't see how this explains anything. They know the real value of the shares, they know the money is gone and so does everybody else.  

The balance sheet may reference the £2 million pounds spent on shares but, surely, their accountants will be pointing to the fact that these are losses for the company.  

If they know they will eventually have to sell up or liquidate and accept that the money has gone, why not do it as soon as possible to prevent further losses? 

[Dreams of 1995 4606]

8 hours ago, Paul Mani said:

Who said we should be grateful? Have I ever said that, once? The FACT is that they do pay the bills and some (the money they spend is far from the bare minimum)...I don’t know what you’re struggling to understand by that.

As I said, leave your hatred of them to one side and look at the whole host of clubs going under whilst V’s just plough another £20m in! It’s weird, it’s odd...it doesn’t mean I like them but I’m intelligent enough to notice that it happens. 

Paying the bills is their obligation man. 
 

Why should I leave my hatred aside? They are running our club into the ground. Meanwhile, amidst all this glorious generosity and financial clout of the mighty Venkys our club shop looks like a scene out I Am Legend. 
 

Things like that don’t happen at clubs where the owners care. You are not kidding anyone Paul, and I often find myself agreeing with you on football matters, but when it comes to the Venkys you have us all completely wrong if you think we are grateful for them pouring money into “shares” to cover the losses they have exacerbated. 

[Stuart 16516]

9 hours ago, Paul Mani said:

Ahhh, I see it’s been confirmed by the LET and Sheffield examiner that we’ve made inquiries for Westwood. Odd considering ‘it’s obvious’ that Mowbray doesn’t know his budget!? ???

This is the kind of chutzpah that can come back and bite. Let’s see if this actually goes anywhere before throwing emojis around.

Our approach to SW could well be a question of how much Westwood is likely to cost. Then a value negotiated and then Rovers will have to put this in front of Venkys for sign-off as part of the entire budget requirements.

Of course, you could be right that they have already signed this off but the tickets and shirts should also be moving along too, and it also contradicts the info that Kamy has. Someone with a very good reputation on here.

I actually hope your intel is good on this one because Westwood is exactly what we need at this time.