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Summer Transfer Window


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1 hour ago, JoeH said:

If he is as good as you propose, why is he in his last year of contract, not playing games and not been snapped up?

Either he's this amazing talent we can sign to replace Tosin, or he's not. If he was good enough why on earth is he available in that manner....

There are bargains out there. 

We got Dack for less than £1 million. Why did no other team snap him up ?

 

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I agree with a few posts on here regarding ball playing centre halves! I’d much prefer a solid centre half who was quite happy just laying it off to a ball playing CM player! 
 

it’s very rare to get a top top defender who’s unbelievable on the ball, yes Theres exceptions like VVD but look at his price tag. John Stones is an awful defender but he can make a pass! 
 

let’s get back to basics, defend well and let the attacking players do the attacking!

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14 minutes ago, Crimpshrine said:

There are bargains out there. 

We got Dack for less than £1 million. Why did no other team snap him up ?

There's many key differences for me:
Dack played week in week out unlike the player in question
Dack was playing in a league Lower than the player in question
Dack had dropped in form from the season previous

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19 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

If his main priority when signing defenders isnt to concede less goals, then we can forget about progression anyway.

I agree. But I think evidence shows he wants a ball player in that position, see Charlie Mulgrew/Tosin Adarabioyo.

That's not me, my opinion or my thoughts, that's Tony Mowbray's and I feel as though its fairly clear.

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28 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

Mahrez cost Leicester City around £450k. Isn't there an argument that says they could have turned round and said he can't be that good if he's only costing £450k. There's no player of that quality buyable for £450k.

Surely it's the scouts job to find the gems that are worth more than the selling club values them.

 

25 minutes ago, JacknOry said:

The logic has me baffled too.

Imagine if we didnt snap up Samba from Div 2 in Germany or signed Friedal on a free using that logic.

 

27 minutes ago, Sparks Rover said:

Yes, Benrhama was cheap too from French L2

But this player would cost anything between £2m and £4m. That isn't a bargain buy in my eyes for a player who can't get a game at Bristol City...

You won't see me rubbishing Hartherz, this left back we're linked with, because I don't know that league at all, the team he plays for or anything. I know B City, I know the CH and I know that if you can't get a game in their defence you're not exactly a world beater.

We have bang average centre halves in our ranks already, we don't need to be spending £3m on another one, In My Opinion. If the logic baffles then so be it, but I don't think I'll be changing tact on that.

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5 minutes ago, JoeH said:

There's many key differences for me:
Dack played week in week out unlike the player in question
Dack was playing in a league Lower than the player in question
Dack had dropped in form from the season previous

Sigh, said player was playing reguarly at the start of the season. Was then loaned out for the second half....where he played regularly (also in the same division we picked Dack up from).

 

In short, your whole post is incorrect bar the slight drop in form.

Edited by JacknOry
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Just now, JacknOry said:

Sigh, said player was playing reguarly at the start of the season. Was then loaned out for the second half....where he played regularly (also in the same duvision we picjed Dack up from)

I don't think there's any point me muddling up the thread any further. I know what you think and you know what I think. I'll leave it with this comment above that I've linked. I'm not saying that Moore wouldn't be an alright player, I just think it's a silly idea to spend a number of million pounds on him when we have Championship defenders at the club with similar levels of experience...

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1 minute ago, JoeH said:

 

 

But this player would cost anything between £2m and £4m. That isn't a bargain buy in my eyes for a player who can't get a game at Bristol City...

You won't see me rubbishing Hartherz, this left back we're linked with, because I don't know that league at all, the team he plays for or anything. I know B City, I know the CH and I know that if you can't get a game in their defence you're not exactly a world beater.

We have bang average centre halves in our ranks already, we don't need to be spending £3m on another one, In My Opinion. If the logic baffles then so be it, but I don't think I'll be changing tact on that.

Again, he played 21 times in their defence in the first half of the season. Hardly 'not getting a game in their defence is it? Then went on loan.

He has their big money signing Kalas in front of him. So he has to be better than him for him ti be a viable target for us?

I have never claimed him to be a world beater. Merely put forward a suggestion on who we could sign to improve our defence that has potential to increase in value with us. Thats what this thread is about after all?

Not quite sure why it has warranted such a prickly and downright rude response from you but heyho.

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Just now, JacknOry said:

Not quite sure why it has warranted such a prickly and downright rude response from you but heyho.

How have I been downright rude in any way? I've simply stated my opinion!

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6 minutes ago, JoeH said:

I don't think there's any point me muddling up the thread any further. I know what you think and you know what I think. I'll leave it with this comment above that I've linked. I'm not saying that Moore wouldn't be an alright player, I just think it's a silly idea to spend a number of million pounds on him when we have Championship defenders at the club with similar levels of experience...

Like who?

 

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Just now, JacknOry said:

Like who?

Derrick Williams has more Championship experience than Moore, is already part of the club/wage structure, already knows the lads - and to me, there's not much evidence to suggest that spending £2-4m on somebody else would produce fruits much more ripe than him...

In my opinion. In no way trying to be "rude".

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5 minutes ago, JoeH said:

 

 

But this player would cost anything between £2m and £4m. That isn't a bargain buy in my eyes for a player who can't get a game at Bristol City...

You won't see me rubbishing Hartherz, this left back we're linked with, because I don't know that league at all, the team he plays for or anything. I know B City, I know the CH and I know that if you can't get a game in their defence you're not exactly a world beater.

We have bang average centre halves in our ranks already, we don't need to be spending £3m on another one, In My Opinion. If the logic baffles then so be it, but I don't think I'll be changing tact on that.

Not necessarily the player in question, but why do you think that a defender of 3m or under at Championship level means bang average?

Patrick Bauer was a free agent. Ajayi was around 2m and helped West Brom go up. Ethan Pinnock cost around 3m from Barnsley and has been right up there in terms of defenders in the division. Tobias Fegueiredo cost up to 2m from abroad. Shaun Hutchinson was picked up by Millwall on a free a few years ago. Michael Morrison was picked up by Reading on a free. Liam Cooper was a minimal fee who has been there for ages. Curtis Nelson was a freebie from Oxford last summer, has been outstanding. All of these players were in defences that conceded less goals than we did.

We need to lose this idea that we need to spend massive money to build a capable defence. We are already at an advantage in that 2 of our defence (and our keeper before he was sold) are academy graduates. We also need to lose this notion that we need a rolls royce of a centre back, the priority has to be to build a defence that keeps the ball out of the net more, any other things are very much of secondary importance.

I also still dont understand your theory that our best option is to just play more centre backs, as if that would compensate for quality. 

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Just now, JoeH said:

Derrick Williams has more Championship experience than Moore, is already part of the club/wage structure, already knows the lads - and to me, there's not much evidence to suggest that spending £2-4m on somebody else would produce fruits much more ripe than him...

In my opinion. In no way trying to be "rude".

We know that Derrick Williams isnt capable of being a top 6/half Championship defender, that part we do know.

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Just now, JoeH said:

Derrick Williams has more Championship experience than Moore, is already part of the club/wage structure, already knows the lads - and to me, there's not much evidence to suggest that spending £2-4m on somebody else would produce fruits much more ripe than him...

In my opinion. In no way trying to be "rude".

And is shite, has no resale value, is shite and should be nowhere near the starting 11.

So just one then?

Seriously, we should avoid buying anyone that has played less Champs games than DW? Better not promote from the academy then, till Del retires at least.

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Just now, JacknOry said:

Seriously, we should avoid buying anyone that has played less Champs games than DW? Better not promote from the academy then, till Del retires at least.

I didn't really claim this blanket statement, you're putting words into my mouth there. I don't think we should spend £2-4m of our limited budget on a player without experience. It in no way means I don't think we should promote from the academy, that has very little cost to us, so is a great option.

I'd sooner see Scott Wharton play than us sign a defender like Moore for £3m. 

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Back to transfer rumours, the Hartherz link has gone fairly unspoken about, I've done some data analysis and compared him with Amari'i Bell for this season. Interesting finds, it shows Bell's inferiority comes in the form of attacking, creating chances and getting involved with key attacking plays. 

1894312272_FLORIANHARTHERZvsAmariiBell.thumb.png.e8107e974a5b88273079b6c947916c36.png

Hartherz team won their division, so the low Tackles per game statistics could be marred somewhat by the fact they've done a lot less defending than we've had to muster this season.

@J*B was it yourself who posted this rumour? Interesting one, online I can see interest from Dusseldorf too in his home country.

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Just now, JoeH said:

I didn't really claim this blanket statement, you're putting words into my mouth there. I don't think we should spend £2-4m of our limited budget on a player without experience. It in no way means I don't think we should promote from the academy, that has very little cost to us, so is a great option.

I'd sooner see Scott Wharton play than us sign a defender like Moore for £3m. 

No you said why buy a defender for a couple mil when we have defenders here with more champs experience. I asked who and you said Del.

The kid has experience at this level. Captained England up to under 17 level, when they won the world cup. Is Wharton a youth international?

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Just now, JacknOry said:

Captained England up to under 17 level, when they won the world cup

Harry Chapman won the England Under 19's Euro's, it doesn't make him an amazing winger.

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Just now, JacknOry said:

Is Wharton a youth international?

Not a huge fan of Wharton. I don't personally believe he should start for us, but I moreover don't feel that we should spend £2-4m on a centre back. We don't have much of a budget and my personal opinion is that a 5 at the back system, using what we already have, and using our budget in other areas would be more beneficial. 

Just my view.

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Just now, JoeH said:

Harry Chapman won the England Under 19's Euro's, it doesn't make him an amazing winger.

No but you are championing Wharton, a player with no international recognition that has mainly played league 2 level over this kid who has half a season experince in the Championship.

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1 minute ago, JacknOry said:

No but you are championing Wharton, a player with no international recognition that has mainly played league 2 level over this kid who has half a season experince in the Championship.

I'm not championing him at all. You'll find countless posts of me saying - Christ we shouldn't really be having Wharton in our Championship defence. I'm not claiming he should start, I'm saying I think if our budget is £4m lets say, we shouldn't spend £3m of it on a Championship defender who's not that experienced. I'd rather bring in someone with more experience for that kind of money, or use the money in other areas. 

Edited by JoeH
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Just now, JoeH said:

Not a huge fan of Wharton. I don't personally believe he should start for us, but I moreover don't feel that we should spend £2-4m on a centre back. We don't have much of a budget and my personal opinion is that a 5 at the back system, using what we already have, and using our budget in other areas would be more beneficial. 

Just my view.

We dont know the budget. But i would want all of it spent on the defence/gk. I literally said in my first post, IF we have a bit of money to spend. Then gave the suggestion of a player.

Obviously, it all changes depending on the budget. Just giving an opinion on a kid who i believe will become a very solid defender at this level.

As for changing formations, no thanks. Just get defenders in.

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Just now, JacknOry said:

As for changing formations, no thanks. Just get defenders in.

I'm fully aware of your opinion. You've been telling me for over an hour. I think there's definitely a strong argument to say forget about the jargon, just spend a few million on the defence. I don't not agree with that.

Just now, JacknOry said:

Just giving an opinion on a kid who i believe will become a very solid defender at this level.

Matey I'm simply giving my opinion back! I'm not being rude or trying to diminish you in any way. It's just a discussion okay? I really need you to get that because in no way am I trying to do anything than have discussion.

 

Ben Whiteman vs Lewis Travis.png

Edited by JoeH
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