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I thought England we're excellent and under Southgate play exciting football.

I love watching my country again after years of watching because it's England much like rovers under coyle

This nations league is exactly what international football needed and I'm all for it. Great stuff.

We have a young, exciting side and Southgate is doing a fabulous job. 

 

 

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12 minutes ago, Oldgregg86 said:

I thought England we're excellent and under Southgate play exciting football.

I love watching my country again after years of watching because it's England much like rovers under coyle

This nations league is exactly what international football needed and I'm all for it. Great stuff.

We have a young, exciting side and Southgate is doing a fabulous job. 

 

 

Agree with all of that. Great game, great tournament - I hope whoever at UEFA came up with it gets recognised.

Southgates done a phenomenal job, especially when you consider only a handful of his players are top class and playing regularly in the Champions League. We're swapping players in and out, adapting to different formations, scoring different types of goals. The level of technique shown is a higher level than in the past.

All that said when we do play a team like France, Belgium or Brazil on song I think we will still be massive underdogs - we just have nowhere near the quality of those teams - but it's fantastic to see the progression. And maybe in the future the likes of Sancho could mature to be genuine world class players. That's really what we need.

 

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Just now, joey_big_nose said:

Agree with all of that. Great game, great tournament - I hope whoever at UEFA came up with it gets recognised.

Southgates done a phenomenal job, especially when you consider only a handful of his players are top class and playing regularly in the Champions League. We're swapping players in and out, adapting to different formations, scoring different types of goals. The level of technique shown is a higher level than in the past.

All that said when we do play a team like France, Belgium or Brazil on song I think we will still be massive underdogs - we just have nowhere near the quality of those teams - but it's fantastic to see the progression. And maybe in the future the likes of Sancho could mature to be genuine world class players. That's really what we need.

 

He has done a job I never anticipated he would ever be able to, and there were no signs prior in his managerial career. He has done excellently and I again enjoyed watching us

I still think that theres a bit of an underestimation in regards to the calibre of our players mind you. Look at the side today, we had in the starting 11, 3 regular top performers at City (Stones, Walker and Sterling) with one who has played quite a lot himself in the last 18 months (Delph), 2 regulars at Spurs (regular 30 goal a season striker Kane and Dier), a regular at Liverpool (Gomez) a regular at Everton (Pickford) a regular at Leicester (Chilwell) and 2 players who arent necessarily regulars but who regularly feature at United and Chelsea (Rashford and Barkley).

Beyond that, you have a series of regulars at big clubs (Henderson, Shaw, Sancho, Alli, Arnold, Trippier) some who get plenty of game time at big clubs (Winks, Lingard, Loftus-Cheek) and big players for good Prem clubs beyond that (Maguire, Maddison, Keane, Dunk, Wilson, McCarthy, Cook) so there is some decent calibre there.

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6 hours ago, roverandout said:

Why is sterling always picked..why is rashford off and sterling still on..why is southgate a dumb f/_^$/

Because Sterling has many more goals and assists in the PL this season would be my guess?

I want Rashford to be good, but he always seems to flatter to deceive....

Edited by K-Hod
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3 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

He has done a job I never anticipated he would ever be able to, and there were no signs prior in his managerial career. He has done excellently and I again enjoyed watching us

I still think that theres a bit of an underestimation in regards to the calibre of our players mind you. Look at the side today, we had in the starting 11, 3 regular top performers at City (Stones, Walker and Sterling) with one who has played quite a lot himself in the last 18 months (Delph), 2 regulars at Spurs (regular 30 goal a season striker Kane and Dier), a regular at Liverpool (Gomez) a regular at Everton (Pickford) a regular at Leicester (Chilwell) and 2 players who arent necessarily regulars but who regularly feature at United and Chelsea (Rashford and Barkley).

Beyond that, you have a series of regulars at big clubs (Henderson, Shaw, Sancho, Alli, Arnold, Trippier) some who get plenty of game time at big clubs (Winks, Lingard, Loftus-Cheek) and big players for good Prem clubs beyond that (Maguire, Maddison, Keane, Dunk, Wilson, McCarthy, Cook) so there is some decent calibre there.

I get your point, but France, Belgium, Brazil all have teams entirely made of world class guaranteed starters for their clubs. Germany and Spain are on the slide but still have tremendous established talent available.

Not doing us down, but if you ask who really is world class only Kane and - at a real push - Walker and Sterling fall in that bracket. It's a young team with a lot of potential but they've got to grow.

Some of the players today really should be looking for moves abroad to foreign clubs in the CL to develop. Thinking the likes of Pickford, Chilwell, Delph, Rashford. They need to get regular games at that level.

Edited by joey_big_nose
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When our manager is looking at the Championship to find players, ala when he apparently watched Dack but was really watching Mount when we played Derby, it says it all about the English game right now. We are down to picking on loan players plying their trade in the Championship or some guy that has only just got into the Championship and is doing a good job.

That said, Southgate is doing exceptionally in my view. In many ways he was the right appointment simply because of our expectations. We have done the high profile foreign managers with huge reputations but these guys were always under huge pressure to deliver due to their reputations. How can they deliver when the pool of players they have to choose from is so limited due to the foreign influx in the PL? 

Southgate has been given time to bring youth up, try new things out and we now have a team that is quick and has the potential to be very good.

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2 hours ago, joey_big_nose said:

I get your point, but France, Belgium, Brazil all have teams entirely made of world class guaranteed starters for their clubs. Germany and Spain are on the slide but still have tremendous established talent available.

Not doing us down, but if you ask who really is world class only Kane and - at a real push - Walker and Sterling fall in that bracket. It's a young team with a lot of potential but they've got to grow.

Some of the players today really should be looking for moves abroad to foreign clubs in the CL to develop. Thinking the likes of Pickford, Chilwell, Delph, Rashford. They need to get regular games at that level.

I agree with many of your points but I just think that in spite of our pre World Cup failings, we sometimes exaggerare the gap between the calibre of our individual players v the rest of the world.

I think Belgium are obviously better but have a fairly similar pool, in that you look around their main 11 and its very weak. Nacer Chadli fairly regularly starting, and players like Boyata, Januzaj and Batshauiy amidst the squad. Its very weak once you go past the 8 or 9 top, top players they have. Brazil have a bit more depth but they have players like Paulinho last time I checked playing important roles, France I think look excellent almost everywhere but Giroud as their main number 9 lets them down somewhat.

Stones has developed into a top quality centre back. Sterlings numbers eclipse even the likes of Sane. Kane is an obvious one as is Walker I agree. After them 4 you have a series of very good players performing to a top level in the Prem and for many, the CL.

I think Pickford and Chilwell are fine where they are in terms of development. I appreciate the success of Sancho but he appears to be a special talent. Nelson is also doing well at Hoffenheim so I dont discourage it mind you.

2 hours ago, JacknOry said:

When our manager is looking at the Championship to find players, ala when he apparently watched Dack but was really watching Mount when we played Derby, it says it all about the English game right now. We are down to picking on loan players plying their trade in the Championship or some guy that has only just got into the Championship and is doing a good job.

That said, Southgate is doing exceptionally in my view. In many ways he was the right appointment simply because of our expectations. We have done the high profile foreign managers with huge reputations but these guys were always under huge pressure to deliver due to their reputations. How can they deliver when the pool of players they have to choose from is so limited due to the foreign influx in the PL? 

Southgate has been given time to bring youth up, try new things out and we now have a team that is quick and has the potential to be very good.

Im not convinced that he was ever looking at Dack. Mount is very much a Chelsea player and an exceptional young talent who ticks every box in terms of the vision Southgate seemingly has, and the fact that he didnt play him suggests to me that he was just giving Mount a taste of the standards.

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13 hours ago, joey_big_nose said:

Agree with all of that. Great game, great tournament - I hope whoever at UEFA came up with it gets recognised.

Southgates done a phenomenal job, especially when you consider only a handful of his players are top class and playing regularly in the Champions League. We're swapping players in and out, adapting to different formations, scoring different types of goals. The level of technique shown is a higher level than in the past.

All that said when we do play a team like France, Belgium or Brazil on song I think we will still be massive underdogs - we just have nowhere near the quality of those teams - but it's fantastic to see the progression. And maybe in the future the likes of Sancho could mature to be genuine world class players. That's really what we need.

 

I think belgium quality isnt that much better than ours. Centreback wise we are way ahead of them and full back

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49 minutes ago, roverandout said:

I think belgium quality isnt that much better than ours. Centreback wise we are way ahead of them and full back

?.. They have three of the finest players in world football - Hazard, Courtois and De Brunye - plus Lukaku whose having a bit of a dip, but when in form is superb. Their team is filled with top CL regulars.

I think they would be big favourites to beat us again if we played them.

It's important I think to keep things in perspective. Otherwise we will get onto that old cycle of hypeing up to an unreasonable degree then blowing the whole system up when we almost certainly get beaten by a better team.

I'll go into a tournament expecting England to challenge to win when we have the top bracket of players. But we just don't.

There's always a chance in football that a team can win without being in the top bracket of player quality - Greece in 2004, Leicester in 2016, arguably Portugal in 2016 also - but it's rare.

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I watched Croatia V Spain on Thursday night and that was a belting game. As was the England game yesterday.

The Wales V Denmark game over the weekend was also a cracker at the end with a lot of bad feeling / tension on the pitch.

This tournament has been great in replacing the meaningless boring friendlies with games which matter. 

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2 hours ago, roverandout said:

Things are happening slowly..by the time euro 2020 comes around we should be genuine contenders. Great strength in depth. Just wish sterling would step up

I suspect the main reason for his inability to reach the incredible heights that he reaches at Man City is presumably psychological based on the disgusting way that he is treat by the English media and public towards a top, top young player. He is still effective as an England player but he appears at times to have the world on his shoulders in an England shirt.

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England have a lot to look forward too. A core of young, talented players who most importantly believe in the manager and each other.

Rooney's comments over the weekend that some ex-England internationals are jealous of this team is interesting.

The "golden generation" had some very good players, but too many ego's who wouldn't let it go even when playing for England.

I'll try not to go all Vinjay but I also think that Alex Ferguson shoulders some of the blame for them underperforming. His Man U players did not like those from other clubs, notably Liverpool, and latterly Chelsea. I believe that the mentality was fostered by him as he had contempt for international football. Giggs with Wales is another one. He played 20 years in the top flight yet only has 60 or so caps.

 

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58 minutes ago, speeeeeeedie said:

England have a lot to look forward too. A core of young, talented players who most importantly believe in the manager and each other.

Rooney's comments over the weekend that some ex-England internationals are jealous of this team is interesting.

The "golden generation" had some very good players, but too many ego's who wouldn't let it go even when playing for England.

I'll try not to go all Vinjay but I also think that Alex Ferguson shoulders some of the blame for them underperforming. His Man U players did not like those from other clubs, notably Liverpool, and latterly Chelsea. I believe that the mentality was fostered by him as he had contempt for international football. Giggs with Wales is another one. He played 20 years in the top flight yet only has 60 or so caps.

 

I think its unfair to blame Ferguson specifically for the culture that definitely existed of club rivalries overriding any attempts at fostering a healthy national team spirit.

I remember watching Ferdinand, Lampard and Gerrard all air similar views on how they were unable to see past their club rivalries. I believe the Spanish team have had similar problems in the past.

Ferguson also wasnt alone in being very reluctant to allow his players to go on international duty for friendlies. Thats a club managee mindset that still exists prominently now.

Definitely agree on so many big egos clashing but thats one of many factors id argue that held us back. Tactical insufficiences, ie famously sticking to a 4-4-2 and trying to cram too many similar players into the same team. The psychological block that seemed to grow as the years without a major tournament victory went by, and the subsuquent media pressure. Weve often been lacking in depth, for example even when we had that brilliant team around 2004, we lacked pace and had players like Darius Vassell as important subs, plus weve had a couple of famous injuries at bad times. 

Southgate has done very well to foster such excitement and enthusiasm I must say.

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On 18/11/2018 at 11:34, joey_big_nose said:

Agree with all of that. Great game, great tournament - I hope whoever at UEFA came up with it gets recognised.

Southgates done a phenomenal job, especially when you consider only a handful of his players are top class and playing regularly in the Champions League. We're swapping players in and out, adapting to different formations, scoring different types of goals. The level of technique shown is a higher level than in the past.

All that said when we do play a team like France, Belgium or Brazil on song I think we will still be massive underdogs - we just have nowhere near the quality of those teams - but it's fantastic to see the progression. And maybe in the future the likes of Sancho could mature to be genuine world class players. That's really what we need.

 

Have to agree, I actually watched the game, in not too distant history I wiuld have.done yard work first and had this on the DVR.  Could to watch and with better finishing wiuld have been out if sight by the time they score.  Rashfird MoM for me they seemed unable to cope with him till they crocked him.  I thiughtnit was over when they scored but credit ti us for not giving up.  Funny that at 1-1 we wiuld be "relegated" 2-1 we win the group.  keep it up Southgate and a knighthood is coming.

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