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Unions


47er
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52 minutes ago, Gav said:

 

The unions represented manufacturing in this country of which I was a paid up member, every manufacturing company in the local area has gone now, partly because of the unions in 1970's crippling the country with strike after strike and Thatcher sent them packing.

Time to sit down and read

https://www.cambridge.org/core/books/abs/building-chicago-economics/the-chicago-school-hayek-and-neoliberalism/7E807461F9C7904524311AD455E09517

Neoliberalism, Hayek, Rand, the Chicago Business School, Thatcherism - it's been a long term project.

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If pay and conditions are crap, don't be a lorry driver --> leads to shortage of drivers --> impacts revenues / profits --> leads to improvements in pay and conditions as firms look to attract more drivers. So long as the government and unions keep their noses out. 

 

Besides we're all complicit. If shop A sells Mars bars for 70p but shop B sells them for £1 because they pay their supplier chain a fair price the vast majority of us go to shop A because shop B is a rip off

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2 hours ago, RoverDom said:

If pay and conditions are crap, don't be a lorry driver --> leads to shortage of drivers --> impacts revenues / profits --> leads to improvements in pay and conditions as firms look to attract more drivers. So long as the government and unions keep their noses out. 

 

Besides we're all complicit. If shop A sells Mars bars for 70p but shop B sells them for £1 because they pay their supplier chain a fair price the vast majority of us go to shop A because shop B is a rip off

So you don’t think those drivers should work at improving their conditions and pay?

Every credit from me to those who are prepared to push their case.

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7 hours ago, Gav said:

What the hell have they been doing for 30/40yrs?

Fighting for their members with at least one hand behind their back. I'm referring to the anti-Union legislation initiated by Thatcher and incrementally added to by subsequent Tory governments.

Its the most restrictive in Europe.

Once again I draw your attention to Germany where employers and employees work together in harmony for the good of the country. Who has the sounder economy? Who has the higher productivity?

Theresa May promised to put Union representatives on Company Boards but that soon got ditched eh?

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6 hours ago, Gav said:

Ask yourself why the lorry drivers are still working in Victorian conditions El Tombro?

You're on repeat mode. You've been told but you don't listen. you've got some blind spot. You hear the word "union" and off you go! In circles!

You remind me of that ARP Warden in Dad's Army when someone left a light on or  mentioned Mainwaring!

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19 hours ago, 47er said:

The web attracts those isolates who stare at a screen all day and night get their goodies by insulting someone whom they don't know and can't see, and most importantly can't see them!  They feel important which is the opposite of their real life.

 

 

9 hours ago, 47er said:

You're on repeat mode. You've been told but you don't listen. you've got some blind spot. You hear the word "union" and off you go! In circles!

You remind me of that ARP Warden in Dad's Army when someone left a light on or  mentioned Mainwaring!

👍

Edited by Gav
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https://news.sky.com/story/house-of-commons-showdown-looms-over-bid-to-end-fire-and-rehire-practice-12439680

Hopefully this goes through parliament as the practice has already been condemned by the likes of Rees-Mogg and Johnson. Personally I don't think the bill will get the majority it needs as most tories won't vote for it.

As someone who something similar happened to it's a disgusting practice and was used in our case as a threat.

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48 minutes ago, arbitro said:

https://news.sky.com/story/house-of-commons-showdown-looms-over-bid-to-end-fire-and-rehire-practice-12439680

Hopefully this goes through parliament as the practice has already been condemned by the likes of Rees-Mogg and Johnson. Personally I don't think the bill will get the majority it needs as most tories won't vote for it.

As someone who something similar happened to it's a disgusting practice and was used in our case as a threat.

I would be amazed if the Tories backed it.

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1 hour ago, arbitro said:

As someone who something similar happened to it's a disgusting practice and was used in our case as a threat.

One of my clients is a large online retailer. They binned me off (as a freelancer) almost immediately after the first lockdown was announced last March and gradually binned off a large number of employees in the following months.

By the time Black Friday and Christmas came around they really struggled to get those same workers back (of which some had found other jobs by then) or to get new skilled workers in. I'd managed to find other sources of work by then but they were asking me for far more than they normally did, and still are.

It's clear that they got rid of far too many staff and they lost potential sales because they couldn't fulfil marketing campaigns that bring in the dosh. In their defence the pandemic could have panned out a lot worse and it was no surprise to me how many of them pushed the staff panic button. It's a case of protecting shareholders first and workers second. Nothing new there, then.

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2 minutes ago, El Tombro said:

One of my clients is a large online retailer. They binned me off (as a freelancer) almost immediately after the first lockdown was announced last March and gradually binned off a large number of employees in the following months.

By the time Black Friday and Christmas came around they really struggled to get those same workers back (of which some had found other jobs by then) or to get new skilled workers in. I'd managed to find other sources of work by then but they were asking me for far more than they normally did, and still are.

It's clear that they got rid of far too many staff and they lost potential sales because they couldn't fulfil marketing campaigns that bring in the dosh. In their defence the pandemic could have panned out a lot worse and it was no surprise to me how many of them pushed the staff panic button. It's a case of protecting shareholders first and workers second. Nothing new there, then.

Protecting shareholder value was one of the reasons we were given as they told us we had to sign new contracts or leave. Effectively the change was tantamount to 12.5% more time at work for the same money.

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5 hours ago, arbitro said:

https://news.sky.com/story/house-of-commons-showdown-looms-over-bid-to-end-fire-and-rehire-practice-12439680

Hopefully this goes through parliament as the practice has already been condemned by the likes of Rees-Mogg and Johnson. Personally I don't think the bill will get the majority it needs as most tories won't vote for it.

As someone who something similar happened to it's a disgusting practice and was used in our case as a threat.

A few months ago I was speaking to a bloke who works for Leyland daf or whatever they’re called now. Can’t remember exactly what he said but something like they sack the temporary staff before Xmas then rehire them again in the new year. Presumably so don’t need to pay them if the plant is shut. Sounded fairly beastly.

I also thought British Leyland were infamous for the frivolous strike even in an era of everyone striking so no idea what’s happened to them over there. 

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14 minutes ago, matt83 said:

A few months ago I was speaking to a bloke who works for Leyland daf or whatever they’re called now. Can’t remember exactly what he said but something like they sack the temporary staff before Xmas then rehire them again in the new year. Presumably so don’t need to pay them if the plant is shut. Sounded fairly beastly.

I also thought British Leyland were infamous for the frivolous strike even in an era of everyone striking so no idea what’s happened to them over there. 

Leyland DAF went into receivership in 1993. British Leyland was the midlands based car business. Leyland was the original base for truck and bus building. The company that assembles trucks was part of Leyland motors, then Leyland DAF, now Leyland trucks part owned by Paccar.

I only remember one big strike at Leyland motors which was to try to save the factory from closure. It failed and closed seeing the loss of around 15000 jobs - leaving only the assembly plant.

Frivolous strikes?

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1 minute ago, den said:

Leyland DAF went into receivership in 1993. British Leyland was the midlands based car business. Leyland was the original base for truck and bus building. The company that assembles trucks was part of Leyland motors, then Leyland DAF, now Leyland trucks part owned by Paccar.

I only remember one big strike at Leyland motors which was to try to save the factory from closure. It failed and closed seeing the loss of around 15000 jobs - leaving only the assembly plant.

Frivolous strikes?

Ah. Confused two different companies there then. 

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10 hours ago, den said:

I would be amazed if the Tories backed it.

Since 4 of the 5 Tory MP's who wrote the book "Brittania unchained" in 2012 are now ministers, it would be astonishing if"levelling up" were anything other than a slogan, which is normally the case with this government.

 

British workers are "among the worst idlers in the world", a group of Conservative MPs has claimed.

Edited by 47er
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I see GPs want to go on strike because they don't want to see patients face to face. Ridiculous. Just sack them if they do as clearly not doctor material.

This is why it is pointless bothering with your GP so people just go straight to A&E. They will do every test and sort you out on the day.

This is why A&E is screwed. GPs not doing their jobs.

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Wouldn't support a strike but I am siding with GPS on this one. You cant give everyone the right to request a face to face it should be up to the doctors to decide who needs to be seen face to face. Get the triage system right and its the way forward. 

There should be some sort of audit to see which cases are and aren't being seen face to face to make sure corners aren't being cut but on the whole giving someone who has had a cold for 2 days the right to a face to face appointment is a waste of resources. 

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4 hours ago, OldEwoodBlue said:

I see GPs want to go on strike because they don't want to see patients face to face. Ridiculous. Just sack them if they do as clearly not doctor material.

This is why it is pointless bothering with your GP so people just go straight to A&E. They will do every test and sort you out on the day.

This is why A&E is screwed. GPs not doing their jobs.

Unless you've been asleep for a decade, you're surely taking the piss. Woeful advice to patients, unwarranted criticism of an entire profession.

You're aware UK is short of thousands of doctors? You're aware that 90% of patients at A&E are not seen within the preferred 4 hours? Johnson promised 20000 new doctors----where are they?

How long would it take for patients to be seen if they followed you?

I'm annoyed with myself for bothering to reply because you surely are a WUM.

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9 minutes ago, 47er said:

Johnson promised 20000 new doctors----where are they

Assuming that figure was based on similar Maths to the X thousand new nurses he promised to recruit. 

When broken down it was made up of predominantly of people currently forecast to leave the profession, the plan was to stop them wanting to leave. That plan appears to have consisted off a miniscule pay rise and a huge tax increase

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5 hours ago, 47er said:

Unless you've been asleep for a decade, you're surely taking the piss. Woeful advice to patients, unwarranted criticism of an entire profession.

You're aware UK is short of thousands of doctors? You're aware that 90% of patients at A&E are not seen within the preferred 4 hours? Johnson promised 20000 new doctors----where are they?

How long would it take for patients to be seen if they followed you?

I'm annoyed with myself for bothering to reply because you surely are a WUM.

No its not a wind up. It is what is happening on the ground every day.

Regardless of the route cause.

If your car is broken down the mechanic doesn't diagnose it and fix it on the phone.

Car goes to mechanic or mechanic comes to car. 

If you have a problem with your body, generally you also have concerns if you are ringing the Doc. Phone call tick list and "if its the same in a few weeks ring back" is not what people will put up with. Expectation (rightly so, as we pay them) is to see a Doctor face to face today. Nothing else acceptable.

So people do every day go to A&E where they are guaranteed to get the service they expect. Yes they have to wait 4 hours but that is better than weeks. Every test you need, diagnosis and mind at rest the same day.

It may be wrong but if you can't get the service from your GP you go where you will get it (same as any other service you pay for). End of the day you don't know what is wrong and you could have dropped dead by the time your GP route gets you CORRECTLY diagnosed. Generally people don't take those risks and want an answer today.

GPs not doing face to face appointments.... unbelievable really.

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7 hours ago, OldEwoodBlue said:

No its not a wind up. It is what is happening on the ground every day.

Regardless of the route cause.

If your car is broken down the mechanic doesn't diagnose it and fix it on the phone.

Car goes to mechanic or mechanic comes to car. 

If you have a problem with your body, generally you also have concerns if you are ringing the Doc. Phone call tick list and "if its the same in a few weeks ring back" is not what people will put up with. Expectation (rightly so, as we pay them) is to see a Doctor face to face today. Nothing else acceptable.

So people do every day go to A&E where they are guaranteed to get the service they expect. Yes they have to wait 4 hours but that is better than weeks. Every test you need, diagnosis and mind at rest the same day.

It may be wrong but if you can't get the service from your GP you go where you will get it (same as any other service you pay for). End of the day you don't know what is wrong and you could have dropped dead by the time your GP route gets you CORRECTLY diagnosed. Generally people don't take those risks and want an answer today.

GPs not doing face to face appointments.... unbelievable really.

Well blame whoever is responsible for the alarming shortage of GP's. The "remainers" are trying to cope with it.

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9 hours ago, RoverDom said:

Then A&E is the right place for you to go. 

I went around to my local A&E the other night. People were having to queue up outside under a sort of lean to that has been built outside the main building. You were sheltered from the rain but other than that there wasn’t much protection from the elements. I can see that being popular once winter really starts.

A nurse with a clipboard was doing a preliminary triage outside making sure no more than about 10 people were allowed inside the building at any one time. One in, one out. Kids under 16 had their own waiting room. When you eventually got inside the department you had wait to be checked in and then wait for the medical triage. Following that after about a 3 hour wait I got seen to by the medical staff. At least I was sat down and in the warm.

When I was leaving I noticed a woman with a baby over her shoulder queueing up outside under the lean to along with about 8 other people.

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1 minute ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

I went around to my local A&E the other night. People were having to queue up outside under a sort of lean to that has been built outside the main building. You were sheltered from the rain but other than that there wasn’t much protection from the elements. I can see that being popular once winter really starts.

A nurse with a clipboard was doing a preliminary triage outside making sure no more than about 10 people were allowed inside the building at any one time. One in, one out. Kids under 16 had their own waiting room. When you eventually got inside the department you had wait to be checked in and then wait for the medical triage. Following that after about a 3 hour wait I got seen to by the medical staff. At least I was sat down and in the warm.

When I was leaving I noticed a woman with a baby over her shoulder queueing up outside under the lean to along with about 8 other people.

Is that covid measures?  Best to wait in the freezing cold and wet than go inside and catch a cold

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