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9 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

Firstly Jim, you are lying cos I've never said I was badly paid at all or treated badly Jim. 

When your previous employer was conducting reviews in the context of coming redundancies you said that they gave you a poor review, or at least one you disagreed with and you went in to complain about it.

So who is lying?

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Ever wondered if you were the problem? 😂

Good luck with it all. I don't like to see anyone out of work.

Having worked only in large organisations in my experience being a member of a trade union is an absolute necessity as protection from unscrupulous managers and an insurance policy in times of trouble

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15 minutes ago, 47er said:

When your previous employer was conducting reviews in the context of coming redundancies you said that they gave you a poor review, or at least one you disagreed with and you went in to complain about it.

So who is lying?

Who nominated you as Michael Aspel? 

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12 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

I am VERY HAPPY with my current salary and the extra benefits we get.

I'm dying to know what these extra benefits are, Chaddy?  You've mentioned at least three times....go on lad tell us...👊

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3 hours ago, Sparks Rover said:

I'm dying to know what these extra benefits are, Chaddy?  You've mentioned at least three times....go on lad tell us...👊

You dont need to know just that these extra benefits but they are good benefits for staff

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I don’t like repeating myself, but as I mentioned this in the football forum, I suppose this one can slide this time....

But, we are reaching that time where people are getting more obsessed with what another poster says than the subject at hand. Even mentions of salaries and trying to find out the benefits! Can we stop that please?

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2 hours ago, K-Hod said:

I don’t like repeating myself, but as I mentioned this in the football forum, I suppose this one can slide this time....

But, we are reaching that time where people are getting more obsessed with what another poster says than the subject at hand. Even mentions of salaries and trying to find out the benefits! Can we stop that please?

TBF K-Hod we're also dealing with a poster who has accused another poster of lying when its actually him who's lying.

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33 minutes ago, 47er said:

TBF K-Hod we're also dealing with a poster who has accused another poster of lying when its actually him who's lying.

Never said anyone was perfect, but we are in danger of there being more posts about one person’s view than on the subject matter, which is just unnecessary.

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29 minutes ago, 47er said:

TBF K-Hod we're also dealing with a poster who has accused another poster of lying when its actually him who's lying.

 

It's more a lack of principles. He changes his stance at will and refuses to admit he might be wrong.

It will be the same with Mowbray. He has always backed Mowbray and refuses to accept he might be a failing manager, but if Mowbray were potted tomorrow he'd be the first to say Rovers were right to sack him!!

Anyway, back to the unions and their victory at Barnoldswick despite being "irrelevant" and "not fit for purpose"

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11 minutes ago, jim mk2 said:

Anyway, back to the unions and their victory at Barnoldswick despite being "irrelevant" and "not fit for purpose"

Why do you think union membership only accounts for around 25% of the working population?

Why don't you think more people aren't in the union?

 

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17 minutes ago, Gav said:

Why do you think union membership only accounts for around 25% of the working population?

Why don't you think more people aren't in the union?

 

I looked on it like an insurance policy Gav. You just don't know when you'll need it. For most of my working life I didn't and then towards the end I did and I was pleased and proud of their efforts. 

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18 minutes ago, arbitro said:

I looked on it like an insurance policy Gav. You just don't know when you'll need it. For most of my working life I didn't and then towards the end I did and I was pleased and proud of their efforts. 

Exactly right Tony. I have a slightly different experience where I felt very badly let down by my union in Blackburn. However, that was more down to the people involved than unions per se and I still think they are necessary. I encourage all of our new employees to join, even though my life would be much easier if they didn't!

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41 minutes ago, arbitro said:

I looked on it like an insurance policy Gav. You just don't know when you'll need it. For most of my working life I didn't and then towards the end I did and I was pleased and proud of their efforts. 

I grew up in the Union movement and it was a real force for good. I attended quite a few courses for shop stewards at weekends and holidays. Various subjects - health and safety, workers rights, understanding work study and incentive schemes, works pension schemes etc. Further up the food chain there were really intensive courses for workers who fancied their chances at becoming MP's etc. In my time the AUEW sponsored about 40 Labour MP's. Of course that gave engineers and the engineering industry a significant voice in Parliament. Now there's nothing. That's what the people who never became involved don't understand. All they saw on TV was mass meeting with guys voting to walk off the job.

A strong Union movement is sorely missed today, even the smarter employers admit that behind the scenes.

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54 minutes ago, arbitro said:

I looked on it like an insurance policy Gav. You just don't know when you'll need it. For most of my working life I didn't and then towards the end I did and I was pleased and proud of their efforts. 

Its personal choice Tony, like everything in life, join or don't join, its up to the individual.

Its quite revealing that the younger posters on here see no need for union membership, that, and the fact only 25% of the country are in a union tells me times have changed, workplaces are much better and fairer places to work than they used to be.

34 minutes ago, oldjamfan1 said:

Exactly right Tony. I have a slightly different experience where I felt very badly let down by my union in Blackburn. However, that was more down to the people involved than unions per se and I still think they are necessary. I encourage all of our new employees to join, even though my life would be much easier if they didn't!

I too was badly let down by the union and I've never been in one since, I try to learn from past mistakes.

We worked in the same sector as you know, no need for a union, very harmonious places to work, very rewarding, help the poorest in society.

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21 minutes ago, Gav said:

Its personal choice Tony, like everything in life, join or don't join, its up to the individual.

Its quite revealing that the younger posters on here see no need for union membership, that, and the fact only 25% of the country are in a union tells me times have changed, workplaces are much better and fairer places to work than they used to be.

I too was badly let down by the union and I've never been in one since, I try to learn from past mistakes.

We worked in the same sector as you know, no need for a union, very harmonious places to work, very rewarding, help the poorest in society.

I suspect it was the same union Gav.......

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I feel like a union is only really effective or most effective in an "us and them" type environment which doesnt exist in every sector. 

I think like Gav said it does depend to an extent an the industry you were in. I also worked in the third sector for a couple of years and totally agree it's so harmonious everyone pulls together and the line between those higher up in the organisation and those lower down just isnt there.

My last job at a national accountancy firm, I dont think a union would have done much good there either. It was an ultra competitive industry, right from joining as a graduate youre competing with others, no one afraid to cut someone else's grass if given half a chance, the concept of pulling together / collective action just wasnt there. Don't get me wrong at times we would team up if management were being unreasonable but if someone was say unfairly "managed out the organisation" unless they were a close mate, you're first thought was "which of their clients could I pick up that'll look good when its promotion time". Because everyone is so keen to impress, they do stuff for the directors, take on tasks etc which blurs the lines between management and worker so when you've got the workers being dicks to each other on behalf of management what chance does a union have of actually being effective?

Everyone was capable of looking after themselves though. It was good sport and we would all laugh about it in the future. In the pub I told my director how I got him to pit two senior partners against each other so I could get out of something that was mandatory and "absolutely no exceptions" just so I could go on a ski holiday. He shook my hand and said "you'll be my boss one day." Long winded way of saying it wasnt an us and them situation it was everyone vs everyone. 

 

Totally understand in other sectors where the structure is a bit flatter, lots of workers on the shop floor and management up in their ivory towers, penny pinching. Collective action / union involvement would be effective. 

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There's no "us or them" at our place and never has been. The days of confrontational managements in the main are long past

Union membership is not compulsory as in the old days but many people are. Those who choose not to join enjoy the same benefits but that is for their conscience. Some folk have principles and others don't. The irony is the union has often helped non-members in disputes.

First thing I would recommend anyone do when joining an organisation is join the trade union - even before signing up to the pension scheme.  It's an insurance policy. Protection and representation are vital in a litigious society in which employers have the upper hand. It also has many other benefits such as comradeship and education. 

What the sceptics and uninformed who don't have a clue about trade unions is that union work is actually about working with managers and helping them to make the business work better.

 

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4 minutes ago, jim mk2 said:

What the sceptics and uninformed who don't have a clue about trade unions is that union work is actually about working with managers and helping them to make the business work better.

If management are genuinely open to making it a better place to work and a better business is a union really that pivotal? My current spot does employee engagement surveys every 5 mins, employee steering groups all over the place, constant working groups. None of which are trade union lead. 

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2 minutes ago, RoverDom said:

If management are genuinely open to making it a better place to work and a better business is a union really that pivotal? My current spot does employee engagement surveys every 5 mins, employee steering groups all over the place, constant working groups. None of which are trade union lead. 

..... and few if any of which would be of little use when bargaining hard for pay rises and mediating in disputes that often end up in court. 

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58 minutes ago, RoverDom said:

I feel like a union is only really effective or most effective in an "us and them" type environment which doesnt exist in every sector. 

I think like Gav said it does depend to an extent an the industry you were in. I also worked in the third sector for a couple of years and totally agree it's so harmonious everyone pulls together and the line between those higher up in the organisation and those lower down just isnt there.

My last job at a national accountancy firm, I dont think a union would have done much good there either. It was an ultra competitive industry, right from joining as a graduate youre competing with others, no one afraid to cut someone else's grass if given half a chance, the concept of pulling together / collective action just wasnt there. Don't get me wrong at times we would team up if management were being unreasonable but if someone was say unfairly "managed out the organisation" unless they were a close mate, you're first thought was "which of their clients could I pick up that'll look good when its promotion time". Because everyone is so keen to impress, they do stuff for the directors, take on tasks etc which blurs the lines between management and worker so when you've got the workers being dicks to each other on behalf of management what chance does a union have of actually being effective?

Everyone was capable of looking after themselves though. It was good sport and we would all laugh about it in the future. In the pub I told my director how I got him to pit two senior partners against each other so I could get out of something that was mandatory and "absolutely no exceptions" just so I could go on a ski holiday. He shook my hand and said "you'll be my boss one day." Long winded way of saying it wasnt an us and them situation it was everyone vs everyone. 

 

Totally understand in other sectors where the structure is a bit flatter, lots of workers on the shop floor and management up in their ivory towers, penny pinching. Collective action / union involvement would be effective. 

It was all team work in my bit of the engineering industry. In the workshop you be relying on the all the different  trades making the components to do their bit. Then if you were building machines in the shop you'd have 4 or 5 blokes all working on the same machine. Installing machines at customers premises, servicing etc it was always in teams. Sometimes 2 or 3 blokes but it could be 10 on days and 10 on nights if the job demanded and the customer was prepared to pay . 

The team ethic was very strong, it was a bit like what I imagine being in the army must be like. We'd all go the extra mile for each other but that didn't prevent the odd " clash of personalities " taking place on the works carpark at dinner time or after clocking off time.

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10 hours ago, Gav said:

Why do you think union membership only accounts for around 25% of the working population?

Why don't you think more people aren't in the union?

 

Because UK has extreme rigorous anti-Union legislation.

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6 hours ago, RoverDom said:

I feel like a union is only really effective or most effective in an "us and them" type environment which doesnt exist in every sector. 

 

Then you must wonder how  on earth Germany prospers. There is a partnership there between Unions and Employers.

There could be here with a different Government approach. Government here prefers repression.

Germany's productivity is far better than our own.

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20 hours ago, Gav said:

Its personal choice Tony, like everything in life, join or don't join, its up to the individual.

Its quite revealing that the younger posters on here see no need for union membership, that, and the fact only 25% of the country are in a union tells me times have changed, workplaces are much better and fairer places to work than they used to be.

I too was badly let down by the union and I've never been in one since, I try to learn from past mistakes.

We worked in the same sector as you know, no need for a union, very harmonious places to work, very rewarding, help the poorest in society.

What about the guys that let the union down ?

We had a new starter who'd worked for a competitor for many years. We were keen to get access to their technology, their machines worked in a different way to ours. Tommy was in his early 50's and had worked all over the world, a lot of that time was spent in Eastern Europe. As a result of this, and unknown to us, the guy had a serious drink problem.

He'd only been employed a month or so when a pattern of ducking and diving emerged. Missing Mondays, over doing the lunch time visit to the pub etc. So the management suspended him prior to firing him. The Union asked for him to be given a second chance even though his case didn't look promising. It went all the way up to an external conference. The Union District Sec, Area Sec, EEF representatives, the full works. I was at the meeting and the Area Sec was great, his plea on Tommy's behalf would have brought tears to a glass eye. The result was the guy was re-instated.

You can see what's coming  - the very next Monday morning, no Tommy. 

The guy made fools of us all.

 

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