Huddersfield Town Away

[neophox]

In some way its quite significant to Rovers missing out on Sarr who was a free agent in the summer. He would had been the perfect choice instead we tried for Kipre to miss out on him. If I was Rovers I would try to get Kipre in on loan for the rest of the season to save us from relegation. He would still be our best centre half with the others always injured or made of glass.

[Bigdoggsteel]

Is Holtby better than Evans? I'm starting to have my doubts.. At least Evans wins more ball. 

Him, Rothwell and Armstrong were so disappointing last night. 

Is Armstrong still undroppable? Some strange reactions from posters to me for suggesting about 5 games ago that something had changed with him. I think it's difficult not to admit there is an issue now. 

[Bigdoggsteel]

3 minutes ago, neophox said:

In some way its quite significant to Rovers missing out on Sarr who was a free agent in the summer. He would had been the perfect choice instead we tried for Kipre to miss out on him. If I was Rovers I would try to get Kipre in on loan for the rest of the season to save us from relegation. He would still be our best centre half with the others always injured or made of glass.

We need to move on. He's not even making the bench at wba and he's not the great saviour. Surely other options. 

[AdamRochina]

1 hour ago, Kie_BRFC said:

What's your ITK mate saying?

Nothing. Absolutely nothing 

[TimmyJimmy]

So, if we were all on the coaching staff what would we advise Mowbray to do (other than to leave)?

My input.

1) have a plan B

2) Fix plan A by a) not playing 3 of your midfielders so deep b) move the ball MUCH quicker c) stop passing the ball across the back 4 d) stop running the ball into cul-de-sacs on the wing and recycling to the back four e) press more f) put round pegs in round holes

3) Plan B a) keep the back four as defenders, no full backs running out of position to play at being world beating attackers ... we need defenders to defend b) get round the back of tight defences by using wingers ... yes we have some Tony  think Dolan, think Chapman or just plain think ... c) put the biggest men in the middle of the attack eg Gallagher or Brereton d) get midfielders into the oppositions box [or close by] instead of them relaxing in the centre circle as if they were watching the action on a film screen e) MOVEMENT!! please can we have some!?

That's my input, anyone with any others? Come on guys, he needs all the help he can get.

[RevidgeBlue]

3 minutes ago, TimmyJimmy said:

So, if we were all on the coaching staff what would we advise Mowbray to do (other than to leave)?

My input.

1) have a plan B

2) Fix plan A by a) not playing 3 of your midfielders so deep b) move the ball MUCH quicker c) stop passing the ball across the back 4 d) stop running the ball into cul-de-sacs on the wing and recycling to the back four e) press more f) put round pegs in round holes

3) Plan B a) keep the back four as defenders, no full backs running out of position to play at being world beating attackers ... we need defenders to defend b) get round the back of tight defences by using wingers ... yes we have some Tony  think Dolan, think Chapman or just plain think ... c) put the biggest men in the middle of the attack eg Gallagher or Brereton d) get midfielders into the oppositions box [or close by] instead of them relaxing in the centre circle as if they were watching the action on a film screen e) MOVEMENT!! please can we have some!?

That's my input, anyone with any others? Come on guys, he needs all the help he can get.

The manager's the problem, we'll see no particular improvement until he goes.

Not sure what the obsession with a big man in the middle is, if you get the ball out wide and the delivery is good enough a low ball in is far more effective.

[neophox]

13 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Is Holtby better than Evans? I'm starting to have my doubts.. At least Evans wins more ball. 

Him, Rothwell and Armstrong were so disappointing last night. 

Is Armstrong still undroppable? Some strange reactions from posters to me for suggesting about 5 games ago that something had changed with him. I think it's difficult not to admit there is an issue now. 

Think Armstrong is heading for a move in january.

[Bigdoggsteel]

Just now, neophox said:

Think Armstrong is heading for a move in january.

Where? I doubt anyone is paying what we will be looking for. 

[matt83]

3 minutes ago, TimmyJimmy said:

So, if we were all on the coaching staff what would we advise Mowbray to do (other than to leave)?

My input.

1) have a plan B

2) Fix plan A by a) not playing 3 of your midfielders so deep b) move the ball MUCH quicker c) stop passing the ball across the back 4 d) stop running the ball into cul-de-sacs on the wing and recycling to the back four e) press more f) put round pegs in round holes

3) Plan B a) keep the back four as defenders, no full backs running out of position to play at being world beating attackers ... we need defenders to defend b) get round the back of tight defences by using wingers ... yes we have some Tony  think Dolan, think Chapman or just plain think ... c) put the biggest men in the middle of the attack eg Gallagher or Brereton d) get midfielders into the oppositions box [or close by] instead of them relaxing in the centre circle as if they were watching the action on a film screen e) MOVEMENT!! please can we have some!?

That's my input, anyone with any others? Come on guys, he needs all the help he can get.

In the position of a coach they would be useful and valid suggestions. The problem is this Mowbray is both stupid and stubborn. A toxic combination at the best of times but in this case the outcome is he’s too stupid to think there’s a problem and if by some miracle he sees the problem he’s too stubborn to change.

Theres only one solution to the malaise we’re in and I’m afraid it doesn’t include helping the manager. 

[BlackburnEnd75]

36 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

 

Is Armstrong still undroppable? Some strange reactions from posters to me for suggesting about 5 games ago that something had changed with him. I think it's difficult not to admit there is an issue now. 

The only other alternative to armstrong is Gallagher or Brereton.

Gallagher - although he scored its a nope. His general play isn't up to it. 

Brereton - perhaps but his finishing is very erratic still not sure he will ever be a main striker. His general play might be better though.

I think we have bigger problems than dropping armstrong such a scrambling together a back 4

[Bigdoggsteel]

22 minutes ago, BlackburnEnd75 said:

The only other alternative to armstrong is Gallagher or Brereton.

Gallagher - although he scored its a nope. His general play isn't up to it. 

Brereton - perhaps but his finishing is very erratic still not sure he will ever be a main striker. His general play might be better though.

I think we have bigger problems than dropping armstrong such a scrambling together a back 4

Maybe Butterworth? Since and including the Bristol game Armstrong has been poor ,at best. 

He doesn't hold the ball up. He doesn't beat a man. He is missing chances. 

Edited December 30, 2020 by Bigdoggsteel

[den]

54 minutes ago, TimmyJimmy said:

So, if we were all on the coaching staff what would we advise Mowbray to do (other than to leave)?

My input.

1) have a plan B

2) Fix plan A by a) not playing 3 of your midfielders so deep b) move the ball MUCH quicker c) stop passing the ball across the back 4 d) stop running the ball into cul-de-sacs on the wing and recycling to the back four e) press more f) put round pegs in round holes

3) Plan B a) keep the back four as defenders, no full backs running out of position to play at being world beating attackers ... we need defenders to defend b) get round the back of tight defences by using wingers ... yes we have some Tony  think Dolan, think Chapman or just plain think ... c) put the biggest men in the middle of the attack eg Gallagher or Brereton d) get midfielders into the oppositions box [or close by] instead of them relaxing in the centre circle as if they were watching the action on a film screen e) MOVEMENT!! please can we have some!?

That's my input, anyone with any others? Come on guys, he needs all the help he can get.

My advice would be to take a look at how big Sam set his team up at Liverpool. Take a look at how Dyche sets his Burnley side up. 
 

Two fairly experienced, solid lines of four or five if necessary, in front of the keeper, which move from right to left following the field of play, whose primary concern is to stop the other side from creating chances. That’s the base that they play from. 
 

Think of that, then if you get the chance take a look at Huddersfield’s second goal again - and explain to me what on earth those players were doing.

As much as I applaud the type of football he’s trying to play, there has to be discipline. The top sides can do both, they can play a quick passing game while still keeping shape. If you aren’t getting results, then revert to the basic principle of discipline and shape.  In Mowbrays current line up we are doing neither.

His subs last night pointed to him having lost the plot completely.

Edited December 30, 2020 by den

[StevenSK]

12 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Maybe Butterworth? Since and including the Bristol game Armstrong has been poor ,at best. 

He doesn't hold the ball up. He doesn't beat a man. He is missing chances. 

I don’t see anything in Butterworth to suggest he will make it in this league for us. Headless chicken comes to mind. 

[GHR]

1 hour ago, neophox said:

Gallagher at fault for the second goal and Johnson for the first. Johnson did miss a sitter in the end also and looked desperate.

Johnson had two shockers near the end, the cross which looked more like a rugby conversion and one right at the death where he skied it. It is true of others also but both Johnson and Holtby seem to have a weird consistency where they either have a worldie or are invisible, they're either a 9/10 or a 4/10 and never anything else. I would love to know what inspires one form or the other to turn up - certainly for Holtby I want to know why his form has fallen off a cliff since autumn.

[Dolly blue]

Why are we all wasting our time with recommendations......different fullbacks, big man in the middle, high press....etc, etc.....all utterly pointless with this man in charge....we can fart about all day with these inconsequential changes....HE is the problem!

Until that changes ....we are what we are....rudderless, floundering....and, sadly, with an  ever decreasing fan base. 

 

[TheWeasel]

Was weird watching the match normally I’d be furious conceding a last minute goal but I was completely calm like I was absolutely resigned to it. Always thought on paper this squad looked exciting, the disappointment is that they’re just not good enough. Every starting 11 we have is just full of players that don’t fit in to the style or even the position half the time like a patchwork quilt of unadulterated sin. As for Mowbray always said give him until new year, hands up it’s the same old song and dance and it’s time for him to go. Was probably time to go for a while but I’m more forgiving than most. We all know it’s unlikely Mowbray will go anytime soon as the owners don’t really give a shit and there’s a sincere lack of true responsibility for those not performing.

[BlackburnEnd75]

1 hour ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Maybe Butterworth? Since and including the Bristol game Armstrong has been poor ,at best. 

He doesn't hold the ball up. He doesn't beat a man. He is missing chances. 

Butterworth isn't really a centre forward. He is more a second striker or a 10. 

His pace gets him into positions. He is getting chances which is a good thing. I'd stick with him and hope he starts putting them away.

[Bigdoggsteel]

Just now, BlackburnEnd75 said:

Butterworth isn't really a centre forward. He is more a second striker or a 10. 

His pace gets him into positions. He is getting chances which is a good thing. I'd stick with him and hope he starts putting them away.

It would be good to have someone who can actually beat a man up there or even in midfield. 

We don't do that. I can I it assume it's fear instilled by the manager about losing the ball. 

Well Rothwell does it the odd time. He's the exception. Armstrong,even with his speed, can't beat a man recently. Not sure what that's about. 

[Wovers]

From what I've seen this season, it's the same old, a run of scraping some wins and then boom a bad run, players having 3 or 4 really good games and then boom they go missing - Armstrong banging them in for fun, then we don't see him for 5 or 6 games, Bradley Johnson starting the season off well and looking very dominating in midfield and now looks like his legs have completely gone, Kaminski commanding at the back collecting clean sheets, and then 1 clean sheet in 12 games, even gallagher looked okay for a couple of games, bagged a couple of goals and now looks absolutley useless again. Then theres the manager, we start the season absolutley flying at teams, Dolan, Breo and Arma terrorising defences, the fullbacks getting further up the field than we are used to and then all of a sudden everything has gone very laboured and we look clueless.

Everything points to the manager, to let players get away with such inconsistencies on regular basis is poor, drop them, it's that simple, but no he strangley drops players who are in form, at time this season Dolan and Rothwell have been put on the bench a week after having good games, whereas the likes of Lenihan who has been awful all season keeps making the team (okay at times unavoidable, but go with a back 3 with Nyambe in there if need be).

We were more effective with Danny Graham knocking the ball down to Dack, than we are now. I've seen a few fans on twitter saying things along the lines of "he wants to play the right way, but the players just aren't good enough yet" - Well don't frigging play that way then, it's simple isn't it? surely!

We are 17th in terms of goals shipped, probably a couple of games away from dropping into the bottom 4 in terms of goals shipped, this defensive issue has been going on for far to long now under mowbray, last night some of the defending was completely unacceptable, it was like wathcing a schoolboy game, 3 or 4 of them chasing the same ball and leaving huddersfield with 2 players free at the back post on 2 or 3 occasions, utterly woeful. It's clear we need a proper defensive midfielder in there to protect this woeful back 4, I thought that's why we got Trybull in, he isn't a forward thinking player, he is a pitbull type player, but he's hardly played a game, instead we have Johnson in there who struggles to run. Just not good enough.

[rigger]

14 hours ago, Wood26 said:

Firstly, I get the Buckley substitution. Going for a goal, expecting the ball, get someone on with better quality.

 

 

I could understand the Buckley substitution if he was going to swap to a back three, and push the full-backs forward. But he just carried on with a back four, with Buckley totally out of position.

[TimmyJimmy]

25 minutes ago, Wovers said:

... we start the season absolutley flying at teams, Dolan, Breo and Arma terrorising defences, the fullbacks getting further up the field than we are used to and then all of a sudden everything has gone very laboured and we look clueless.

Agree with a lot of your post. The bit quoted above though not so much. The full backs are the problem.

Mowbray is so hell bent on attacking that he uses his full backs as surrogate wingers. That leaves big holes in defence that are easy to exploit with big heave-ho Hail Marys.

We are NOT as good in attack as Mowbray thinks we are. We are weak in defence when the full backs go awol and there's no cover from defensive midfield despite there being three of them.

If/when a new guy comes in he can either buy his way out of trouble (not likely to have the cash though) or acknowledge the defence is the problem and make the back four stay together.

A back four. A shape. Stay tight. Move as one.

I don't think this is rocket science, I genuinely don't understand how we can all see it but TM can't especially as he was a centre back by trade. wtf?

Edited December 30, 2020 by TimmyJimmy

[Bigdoggsteel]

7 minutes ago, rigger said:

I could understand the Buckley substitution if he was going to swap to a back three, and push the full-backs forward. But he just carried on with a back four, with Buckley totally out of position.

Buckley right back is more nonsense, just like Gallagher. If Buckely isn't good enough to come on center mid, he shouldnt be coming on. 

[rigger]

12 hours ago, Ossydave said:

Yes but who the hell else could have played there

you move Johnson into a back three with Ayala, and Lenihan. Push Bell and Buckley up the pitch. This would be what is called a plan B. At the time we where 1 nil down, so what's to loose?  

[OldEwoodBlue]

Last night when he subbed Elliott, as he left the pitch he was seen shaking his head in disgust.

Says something when a 17yo kid has lost all respect for your decisions.

[rigger]

3 hours ago, matt83 said:

In the position of a coach they would be useful and valid suggestions. The problem is this Mowbray is both stupid and stubborn. A toxic combination at the best of times but in this case the outcome is he’s too stupid to think there’s a problem and if by some miracle he sees the problem he’s too stubborn to change.

Theres only one solution to the malaise we’re in and I’m afraid it doesn’t include helping the manager. 

Unless it is helping him out of the door