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Watching the match yesterday, only confirmed what I said a few matches ago - Mowbray has taken us as far as he can. He deserves full credit for the squad he has assembled (and criticism for money wasted on certain players when we haven't ever addressed our biggest issue in defence) - but given the players at our disposal we are massively under achieving.

Taking yesterdays game in isolation - we played ok - and were on the balance of play unlucky to get beat - but that has been a common theme for far too long. Yesterday wasn't as much about the defence, as it was the attack for not making the best of several good opportunities. We are playing attractive football - but against packed defences we have no answer - and this has become our achilles heal.

At this moment in time I would look back on TM's time in charge with great gratitude. I think many underestimate the job he did taking us straight back up, stabilising the club and pulling together our best squad for some time. If he carries on, he will be remembered more for days like yesterday than the really good job he has done for us.

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That is one of the reasons that Mowbray is so secure in his job. People thinking it doesn't matter to loose cup games. No games are pointless, in my limited experience you strive to win every competit

He can't be arsed to stand-up, never mind walk.

As I said the other week, when we were on a death spiral last season, Waggott was asked if the manager’s job was under threat, he laughed and looked shocked that the question was even asked. Not

7 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

Well Allardyce mess up big time against his former club. 

 

And Bielsa at Crawley. Doesn’t change anything though, Mowbrays time is up.

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7 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

What does that even matter? 

He stood up in plenty of match games. Just another pointless stick to beat Mowbray with 

To be honest I agree, whether he wants to shout and bawl, sit in the upper tier, pick his nose, scratch his arse, whatever he wants to do on the touchline means little.

The reason that people are resorting to analysing his touchline behaviour however and questioning if he still has the dressing room is because what we have offered up on the pitch this season and perhaps prior is not good enough.

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12 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

To be honest I agree, whether he wants to shout and bawl, sit in the upper tier, pick his nose, scratch his arse, whatever he wants to do on the touchline means little.

The reason that people are resorting to analysing his touchline behaviour however and questioning if he still has the dressing room is because what we have offered up on the pitch this season and perhaps prior is not good enough.

Why questioning whether the players still believe in him as manager? 

We seen Dack's comments recently. Stuart Jones interview on Rovers chat endorsed Mowbray and his big interest in our academy and players 

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2 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Why questioning whether the players still believe in him as manager? 

We seen Dack's comments recently. Stuart Jones interview on Rovers chat endorsed Mowbray and his big interest in our academy and players 

Probably because people are trying to rationalise why we are never close to getting in the table where the targets have been set out. I dont really think its as simple as putting things down to one thing.

Comments are meaningless. Players never say "im staying even though the manager is underachieving and I dont believe in him because ive doubled my wage." Not that im saying that is the case but comments like that are always to be taken with a huge pinch of salt.

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2 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Why questioning whether the players still believe in him as manager? 

We seen Dack's comments recently. Stuart Jones interview on Rovers chat endorsed Mowbray and his big interest in our academy and players 

It's the same at every club. The players are always right behind the manager - right until the minute he gets fired and then they're right behind the new guy. Pro football, with a few exceptions, is an integrity free zone.

Regarding his manner on the touchline I don't care a toss. Most top class rugby league teams have the coach high up in the stand with walkie talkie communication with the bench, that way they get a better view of the whole game and they can still make subs, tactical changes etc. Watch the Rugby Union Internationals, Eddie Jones and his team are up in the gods in a box with proper access to all the modern analytical equipment. They only come down at the end of the game. At least that way the players wouldn't have to look at Mowbray's miserable body language.

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17 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Why questioning whether the players still believe in him as manager? 

We seen Dack's comments recently. Stuart Jones interview on Rovers chat endorsed Mowbray and his big interest in our academy and players 

Off course they are going to say that when questioned about the manager. Do you expect them to come out and say the manager is poor and the club are going nowhere with him because he is incapable of building a solid defence? Players used to come out and defend Kean, remember the excruciating Bradley Orr interview after the relegation.

Use your eyes did that look like a team yesterday who had faith in the manager? For the last half an hour yesterday most of them looked utterly bewildered and clueless as to what role they were being asked to play. And if they looked to the bench for guidance all they would have seen was our chump of a manager having a kip.

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6 hours ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

Can anybody paint me a picture were we find a way to score against teams that come to let us " rope a dope " and play in front of them all day. Or a picture were we stop making school boy errors at the back and become difficult to score against.

Both of those things will have to happen before we can even think of a place off place.

I can, Voodoo 👍

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Football is a cosy business in which they all look out for each other, hoping to get that next contract as a player or coach, nobody ever does a bad job. Exhibit A...
 

‘In 2008, [Coyle] had managed to get Andrew Cole on board for a loan spell and the former Manchester United star spoke very highly of Coyle when interviewed by the Daily Mail a couple of years later. Cole said: “If a manager is not good at his job, I might say so. But Owen Coyle was the most impressive manager I played for after Sir Alex’


The bench rests.

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Here's the thing there are only two arguments you can use to say that TM should stay in post. 

 

The first is he has done a great job and deserves to stay in post. Honestly, I struggle to see how that's the case for a couple of reasons. 

On one hand he's done a decent job, with some really impressive signings but there are a fair few blemishes on the way too. Some big and key signings haven't worked out at all, we got relegated first time with him, and three years of no forced sales and a decent budget and we are no nearer promotion, have a style that works, or even having a fully fit and competent defence.  That's not progress or a good job whatsoever. Worst of all there are basic errors that an under 11s coach wouldn't make. A few excellent pieces of business and one promotion with a budget that dwarfs everyone else's isn't really enough. It's hardly a great job by any standards and warrants keeping him in it. Remember he took us ona run of 1 win in 11 that would have seen him sacked anywhere else.  The Doncaster game was another piece of evidence of the far from excellent job that he is doing. Losing to a decimated lower league team using a ton of first team players? He's doing a great job so should stay in post - let's debunk the myth. It's not a good job, it's a decent one. 

Even if somehow we were to conclude it is a great job prior to this season that doesn't mean the wheels haven't come off. Souness was brilliant for 3 seasons but lost the plot at the end. He had to go because irrespective of 3 excellent seasons he was losing it. (Remember 8 defenders playing vs West Brom?) Just because a manager has done well, doesn't give them carte blanche to continue when they reach the end of their shelf life. And he clearly has. Players hopelessly out of position, a defence that gets more rickity as time goes on, looking devoid of a plan, and substitutions that just plain baffle. TM really looks as if he has lost the plot. So great job prior or not (and it really isn't a great job) if he's lost it, he needs to go. 

 

The other reason is we will get someone worse, we can't get better. 

Firstly this is no endorsement of TM whatsoever. If I had a school bus i wouldn't employ the drunk even if he is a better fit than the person who fails a DBS check. I've not seen it used along the lines of TM is pretty poor, or mediocre at best, there's not an acknowledgement of TM's inability that accompanies this statement. If there were then I think I could stomach it a bit more, as the owners couldn't run a bath much less a football club. There is a genuine worry there as to who will be appointed if TM goes. However, it's often used  as a shield to protect TM from criticism, which annoys me. 

Again the key issue with this is how well TM is doing. We won't get better suggests that TM is currently at a level where we won't improve upon via recruitment. Sadly, even though the owners strike me as a shower and we would appoint someone pretty unimpressive, I think that bar would still be higher than TM currently.  Buckley at right back. Gally on the wing. Elliott not on the wing because he was playing well there. Only signing crocks in defence. Persisting with Walton, Bennett, Smallwood, Mulgrew long past their sell by date. Williams chosing whether he can play. These are utterly basic errors that any manager would improve on. TM is making errors that most managers wouldn't make, and so even if the new person isn't that good, quite possibly they would be better than TM and an upgrade, simply by not doing criminally stupid basic errors. So I struggle to see how he can't be an upgrade. 

Add in the fact there are a ton of good managers out there, including in the lower leagues, and you compare them to TM's achievements. Even in Venkys bargain basement of managers there's candidates who think sticking the big lad up top and having defenders who are fit are good ideas. The idea we won't get better is predicated on the idea that TM is doing a decent job, when it's at best decent, but imo is rapidly slipping. 

Put it this way, with all the favourable conditions TM has had - no fear for his job, no sales, decent budget, we're still style-less, unable to mount any sort of promotion challenge, and getting done by Donny reserves at home. Like Bowyer, what's going to happen when adversity hits? If this is what it's like when things are favourable, what's it like when it's tough. From all the evidence, and past experience - relegation.    

Get rid ASAP

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