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24th January 2021 Middlesbrough Away 15:00


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24 minutes ago, Ewood Ace said:

To be fair to Warnock and I think he disgraced himself today with his conduct towards Branthwaite but I really do think there is a some sort of agenda against him from officials.

Is it any wonder though, this last week and his latest outburst today:

 

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This guy is turning out to be a good investment!

I see your user name is submarine. Is that why you got this wrong?

2 superb passes from, without doubt, our best player. All those doubting Dack need to give their heads a wobble.

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39 minutes ago, Borofan87 said:

He could have lost his eyeball. That's not a common occurrence in football. Jimenez, Ryan Mason - those are similar incidents.

Morsy committed, well tried to commit a professional foul that happens in most games, taking one for the team - I think it was Davenport did it in the first few minutes for you. Morsy was rightly booked for it. 

To say that was the worst challenge is ridiculous.

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Poor little lamb. It happens.

 

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My thoughts on the game: 

Positives:

Kaminski! When TM gets a transfer wrong he gets it very wrong. Fortunately the reverse is true and Kaminski is a better of a signing at a steal of a price. Great performance. 

Nice to see Lenihen show his old form. Good to see there's a player still in there. 

By error or design we may have found a system that works/suits our main assets 4-2-3-1. Think if you have Dack and Armstrong in their best positions then you are going to be strong offensively. 

Gally seems to be a decent impact sub not sure that's enough for his wages but it's at least some use for him. 

Three points and a clean sheet is really great. Even if we needed a piece of absymal reffing to help it is great we managed to see the rest of the game out. 

 

Negatives

The Buckley Johnson midfield issues. Johnson is a bit injury prone and inconsistent and the Buckley sub really didn't work. 

The first half was very unconvincing. A better team would have punished us. We start so slowly of late, and whilst we got away with it today it needs to be addressed. Especially the errors in defence. They really need to be cut out. 

The penalty and red card. We were super lucky imo on this one. Deffo a penalty which would have changed the game. TM bangs on about it when we don't get things our way so we were very fortunate to get away with it. And if it's mitigating circumstances when we lose, it certainly should be when we win too. To me it was a red, high and studs up - intent is not a factor. Would certainly have given it/wanted it as a red if it were the other way round, also as a neutral too. Think we were very lucky on this one as it was a lucky escape. 

 

Can't decide if positive or negative:

Boro weren't that special, they crumbled when we scored. We won. And these lot are fighting for promotion. They're nothing special but are in the mix. That's encouraging because we beat a team in the mix and they certainly weren't anything to fear in resilience or quality. So it's encouraging because the teams near the top aren't that good. It's discouraging though because as mediocre as Boro are we still aren't in or realistically likely to get playoffs. It's discouraging to think that even though there is nothing to fear in this division that we still can't make any headway. 

Which is probably where to end this post - nothing to fear, nothing to be excited about but a welcome three points and win in our mid table jaunt.

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I think the game tipped our way with the save then follow up onto the post.

They had been knocking on the door for quite a while at that point and could have been out of sight.

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34 minutes ago, Mashed Potatoes said:

You probably were not aware but Morsy is unpopular here because his challenge put Dack out for a year when he was at Wigan.

If that is the reason then it is is misguided because he was not at all to blame for Dack's injury.

34 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Well it was penalty. not sure it was red card considering the player didnt mean to injury the player. He was watching the ball all the way plus Fry did slight duck down to head the ball. 

Dack will influence games wherever he plays cos he is quality player but more important is managing his game time whilst he properly recovers from his injury and regain full fitness instead of rushing him back and potentially risking another injury. 

It endangered the safety of an opponent so I believe it should have been a red card, intention aside, although someone may correct me on the interpretation of the rules.

Dack is at his best in the final third, Armstrong was again isolated today and the balance of the midfield was poor. Next week we should play Dack off Armstrong, and then the question is Travis and either Davenport or Holtby for me.

31 minutes ago, Paul Mani said:

I honestly don’t see the point in going over the penalty incident. There are terrible decisions in near enough every game in the championship. We scored a perfectly good goal in our last match which was 3yrds onside and ruled offside! It was 0-0 at the time and so hearing in mind our record that changed the course of that game too...and? 

The penalty wasn’t given, tough shit. It’s done now and Boro didn’t do enough to beat us. NEXT

In that last game, we also scored a goal whereby it seemed that the ball went out of play. There were 2 decisions in that game, one going for and against us that seemed almost certainly (no camera angle from a perfect view seemed available for either) to be have been incorrect. 

People are going over it because it was critical to the game, a major moment and of course something that has caused massive waves in the post match reaction. We would rightly moan if that had gone against us so we shouldnt ignore it if it goes for us, as much as we are glad it did.

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42 minutes ago, Paul Mani said:

I honestly don’t see the point in going over the penalty incident. There are terrible decisions in near enough every game in the championship. We scored a perfectly good goal in our last match which was 3yrds onside and ruled offside! It was 0-0 at the time and so hearing in mind our record that changed the course of that game too...and? 

The penalty wasn’t given, tough shit. It’s done now and Boro didn’t do enough to beat us. NEXT

True to an extent but there's a bit of a difference between not having a stonewall penalty awarded against you and not having one awarded against you which would also have reduced you to ten men. 

We certainly can't complain about not getting the rub of the green from the officials at the moment, Stoke had a man sent off 50 yards from goal with defenders in the vicinity and we couldn't take advantage so like you say, the officials in this League are bad for everyone.

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A good win but a huge slice of luck with regard to the Branthwaite incident.  It should have been a penalty and a red card for dangerous play for me.  But, having said that, we've had numerous decisions go against us in the past.  Bottom line is the standard of refereeing in the EFL is appalling at times. 

Our goal was well worked and fair play to Mowbray, the substitutions he made afterwards ensured we controlled the game from that point on.

I thought both sides looked pretty average to be honest.  The fact that both are being talked about as potential play-off candidates illustrates the poor standard of the Championship.  It may be an exciting division in terms of everyone is capable of beating everyone on their day but in terms of footballing quality its pretty poor.  No wonder teams that get promoted usually pay only a flying visit to the Premier League before returning from whence they came. 

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1 minute ago, roversfan99 said:

If that is the reason then it is is misguided because he was not at all to blame for Dack's injury.

It endangered the safety of an opponent so I believe it should have been a red card, intention aside, although someone may correct me on the interpretation of the rules.

Dack is at his best in the final third, Armstrong was again isolated today and the balance of the midfield was poor. Next week we should play Dack off Armstrong, and then the question is Travis and either Davenport or Holtby for me.

In that last game, we also scored a goal whereby it seemed that the ball went out of play. There were 2 decisions in that game, one going for and against us that seemed almost certainly (no camera angle from a perfect view seemed available for either) to be have been incorrect. 

People are going over it because it was critical to the game, a major moment and of course something that has caused massive waves in the post match reaction. We would rightly moan if that had gone against us so we shouldnt ignore it if it goes for us, as much as we are glad it did.

In the Morsy-Dack incident over a year ago whilst Morsy didn't actually foul Dack he was un necessarily physical with Dack going after a ball that was going out of play. He helped Dack on his way. The injury was caused by the way Dack landed. I've seen Shearer do it with centre halves, he just helped them on their way over the touchline. How they landed is another story. It's being careless with a fellow pro's career.

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The constant stream of poor decisions does create a conundrum that I cant really see an answer for.

The only answer that could make an obvious major difference would be VAR and even if it is financially viable, I suspect that it would not be overly well received.

So the question becomes, the sanitisation of VAR or many wrong decisions? I personally dont like VAR but it may become inevitable.

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40 minutes ago, LDRover said:

I'm sure our resident referee @arbitro could regale us with some tales on him

I had several rows with him over the years and I have to say I found him a nasty individual who invariably blamed me when his team had lost. In the same season he called me the best first year referee he had ever seen to the worst official on the list later in the season. Today's rant was typical of him and it's simply a deflection tactic designed to ease any criticism for losing. This is a man who called Diouf a sewer rat then signed him.

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9 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

It endangered the safety of an opponent so I believe it should have been a red card, intention aside, although someone may correct me on the interpretation of the rules.

Dack is at his best in the final third, Armstrong was again isolated today and the balance of the midfield was poor. Next week we should play Dack off Armstrong, and then the question is Travis and either Davenport or Holtby for me.

For me he went to play the ball and his eyes was on the ball. He meant no danger to the player. Like Evan's injury last season. 

On Dack, lets see how he come through this week before decide whether he starts or come off the bench. Let's manage him properly and not rush him too quickly 

10 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

In that last game, we also scored a goal whereby it seemed that the ball went out of play.

Did the ball go out? Yes or no? 

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1 minute ago, Tom said:

I think the game tipped our way with the save then follow up onto the post.

They had been knocking on the door for quite a while at that point and could have been out of sight.

A fantastic reaction save, probably the best save Kaminski has made in a Rovers shirt.

8 minutes ago, Blue blood said:

The penalty and red card. We were super lucky imo on this one. Deffo a penalty which would have changed the game. TM bangs on about it when we don't get things our way so we were very fortunate to get away with it.

I thought he let himself down a bit by saying he hadn't seen it. But sadly that sort of hypocrisy is common among managers, they always see the decisions that go against them but never seem to see the ones that go for them. That is one reason why nothing happens about the terrible standard of officiating in this country.

Mowbray has regularly come out and correctly criticised the standard of Championship officiating. Today he should have come out and said clear pen and red card, we've had a few go against us this season and I've been regularly questioning the standard of officiating. Instead he hides behind Wenger answer, so now the next time he moans when something goes against us he will just look like he is making excuses rather than actually being concerned about the standard of officiating.

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6 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

The constant stream of poor decisions does create a conundrum that I cant really see an answer for.

The only answer that could make an obvious major difference would be VAR and even if it is financially viable, I suspect that it would not be overly well received.

So the question becomes, the sanitisation of VAR or many wrong decisions? I personally dont like VAR but it may become inevitable.

Why not try to get ex professional players into refereeing who dont make the grade? 

 

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I'm happy with the win today and I've always said substance over style for me any day if results depend on it. Although we were under the cosh we were quite resilient and in truth limited Boro to very few chances. There wasn't any real stand out performances but the team and work ethic were highlights for me. I have always said the secret to success in the Championship is clean sheets and for me that's were our focus should be in every game.

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1 minute ago, chaddyrovers said:

For me he went to play the ball and his eyes was on the ball. He meant no danger to the player. 

I don't think he did mean any danger but the fact that his studs were up in Fry's face means that he did endanger his opponent. It was as blatant a red card as you could wish to see on a football pitch and if it had been in the other box you would have been certain it was a red card. I remember Nani got sent of for United in the Champions League a few year back now for something similar but not as dangerous.

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14 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

In the Morsy-Dack incident over a year ago whilst Morsy didn't actually foul Dack he was un necessarily physical with Dack going after a ball that was going out of play. He helped Dack on his way. The injury was caused by the way Dack landed. I've seen Shearer do it with centre halves, he just helped them on their way over the touchline. How they landed is another story. It's being careless with a fellow pro's career.

I actually thought the Morsy/Dack incident was a lot worse than that, the ball was going out anyway and whilst he probably didn't intend to put him out of action for 12 months, I thought he "did" Dack by deliberately stamping on his foot.

The one today on Travis I thought was something and nothing, a professional foul/taking one for the team which is often referred to as "a good foul" by ex-pros".

Morsy's a horrible barsteward. However if he played for us I'd probably think he was great.

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Glad we got all 3 today, and hoping our recent run of results have boosted the squads morale.

We have a winnable game vs Luton at Ewood on Saturday. The defending looked better today, I’d say iron out the midfield Saturday & Rovers could put up 3 again. 

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Just now, Bigdoggsteel said:

Can Branthwaite be retrospectively banned? 

As I understand it:

Not if the referee says in his report he saw the incident but didn't deem it worthy of any further action. 

However if he says he missed the incident altogether then retrospective punishment could be imposed.

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16 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

For me he went to play the ball and his eyes was on the ball. He meant no danger to the player. Like Evan's injury last season. 

On Dack, lets see how he come through this week before decide whether he starts or come off the bench. Let's manage him properly and not rush him too quickly 

Did the ball go out? Yes or no? 

I definitely agree that he meant no malice but the rule book says this and I dont think we can argue that it was anything but:

A tackle or challenge that endangers the safety of an opponent or uses excessive force or brutality must be sanctioned as serious foul play.

Also, I am also sure that it went out yeah, it looked like it. You would need a sideline view to be 100%, as you would with the offside, as maybe a slight part (a toe, a shoulder, whatever) of Armstrong was offside. But both seemed wrong to me.

14 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Why not try to get ex professional players into refereeing who dont make the grade? 

 

Difficult that, how do you really enforce that? You cant do any more than encourage it and I doubt there would be a sudden influx, and even so, it would take a bit of time. And there would still be a large element of error even if they were former players as things get missed, thats human error.

 

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Branthwaite  dodged a red card (might've been yellow) and a penalty.  We would have been screaming for it if it had been the other way around.  As Mowbray said he is a young lad and there was no intent that I could see but the ref missed it.  However to see how Warnock behaved at the end of the game was very poor.  I've seen him send players out to kick an opposition player out of the game and he is an exponent of intimidating the opponents with niggly fouls and off the ball trips and pulls, he's used that successfully at every club he has been at.  He is like Allardyce, effective but very ugly.

My problem with him is that he is a complete hypocrite.  Because of that I really enjoyed seeing him seethe and rant, he is a 'win at all costs' manager who wouldn't mind seeing half his team red carded if the result came out - even if so many got sent off that the game was abandoned (Battle of Bramall Lane - Wikipedia).

Final thought was a few seconds before the incident Assombalonga took a blatant dive whilst dragging Travis' shirt off.  If the referee had seen that it would have been a Rovers free kick, Assombalonga booked and no injury to Fry.  Referees miss things, they are human.  Not that Warnock would have complained if 'Boro had been awarded a penalty then.

As for Rovers?  Absolutely delighted to see they could scrap and claw their way to a victory, great football in the build up to the goal.  Thought Lenihan was immense, best game so far from Douglas and Travis looked like he was almost back to his best.  The subs really made an impact as well, I think Brereton is a key player for us now and Gallagher was doing what was needed.  Nice cameo from Dack.

The goalie problem looks answered with Kaminski, a day for defenders to come good but loved seeing Rothwell hurl himself to block a shot.

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Borofan87 said:

He could have lost his eyeball. That's not a common occurrence in football. Jimenez, Ryan Mason - those are similar incidents.

Morsy committed, well tried to commit a professional foul that happens in most games, taking one for the team - I think it was Davenport did it in the first few minutes for you. Morsy was rightly booked for it. 

To say that was the worst challenge is ridiculous.

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One of my teammates back in 96 looked like this after an errand bicycle kick in the box. Hope he bounces back. I know my mate shied away from contact for a good while afterward. Back then though no one would have even considered it a card. 
 

 

Edited by yankfan
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