Brockhall STC - planning permission application ?

[Herbie6590]

Just now, Leonard Venkhater said:

The legacy word is particularly important in a Blackburn Rovers context, though, because it was Mme Desai's original vow to "respect Jack Walker's legacy" ...but....

Yes, I agree...what I’m saying is park that...because I simply don’t see how less is more on a purely logical, cold hard fact basis. The legacy aspect is reason enough for me, but for those with whom it doesn’t resonate all I seek is a logical argument as to why less is better, because I don’t get it. 

[Gone to seed]

“The redevelopment of the Junior Training Centre site is an opportunity to provide new high quality indoor sport facilities that would benefit the Blackburn Rovers Football and Athletic and the people of Brockhall Village as a
whole”

Oh yes, I can just see how the people of Brockhall Village would benefit..

erm..

Err...

Doh! No I can't!

 

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, Richard Oakley said:

You calling me insane.? You looking for a lawsuit?

I'm saying please don't make things up about me that aren't true and aren't based in any way on fact, just pure hearsay.

[Hoochie Bloochie Mama]

1 minute ago, JoeH said:

Again, a complete misrepresentation. Your methods of debate are wholly disingenuous. 

I was playing you at your own game. You missed the irony. Oh well. 

[Ewood Ace]

21 minutes ago, JoeH said:

I just don't hold legacy in such an important light as yourself and others who do.

And nor do the owners (despite the lies they told) which is why they have taken us from mid table of the Premiership, to mid table in the Championship via League 1. We were a model club a decade or so ago now we are a debt ridden rabble, selling off the training ground to try and make a quick buck.

[EgyptianPete]

24 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

If it wasn’t for Jack we wouldn’t have Brockhall, at all. Or the fantastic facilities at Ewood Park, or a Cat 1 Academy.

’Don’t buy this legacy stuff’. I mean, honestly.

I really dont understand some of the logic on here, the Venkys have made our academy CAT 1 and put money in to keep it that way, name me local sides in our area in our division that do the same, if alalgamation of both centres in new state of the art buildings providing permission is granted then why is that not a good thing. We all know what jack built and are forever grateful, but time moves on, Would people on here have the same attitude if local owners had the same thought process.

[RevidgeBlue]

9 minutes ago, JoeH said:

I just don't personally think legacy and all of its trimmings are as important as some other people do. That's my position. It certainly doesn't change my opinion on Jack Walker, what he did and what we achieve under his leadership. 

I don't suppose Jack would have minded in the slightest if the training facilities were being genuinely improved but come on, that's not what's happening here is it?

It seems a fairly obvious asset stripping exercise to make a quick buck. We just don't know for certain where the net proceeds would be going yet.

If the scheme was entirely at the owners behest then I suppose that is their prerogative. However I think as supporters we would still be entitled to feel aggrieved that Jack's legacy which you are so dismissive of was being disrepected. He thought that it was necessary to have separate facilities for a Club of the stature he wished to build and ideally that should be respected.

[EgyptianPete]

6 minutes ago, tomphil said:

 

So it's a downgrade then to save money and rinse a few quid ?

Is it desperately needed, will we make the play offs and promotion on the back of it ?

What happens if we REALLY need money in years to come when Vs have turned the taps off or flown the nest ?   What gets sold then ?

You should know, be like Bolton and Wigan, and god forbid Bury.

[perthblue02]

11 minutes ago, WIR Second Coming said:

 

Oh yes, I can just see how the people of Brockhall Village would benefit..

erm..

Err...

Doh! No I can't!

 

 

It will be easier for them to go to one place to get the autographs of all the teenage Premier league loans that will be padding out our team in the next stage of our "progress"

[Guest]

@Herbie6590 I am attempting to write a response to your well thought out questions (which I will post ASAP, I'm not ignoring), that actually deal with the debate at hand. It's rather difficult however to get round to answering when I'm having to bat off personal attack after personal attack from users on this site.

As someone who made a choice to become club sponsor (at a very low financial level), am I no longer welcome on this message board? Because this afternoon that is exactly how I've been made to feel. If the answer is yes, I will walk away now no problemo.

1 minute ago, Ewood Ace said:

We were a model club a decade or so ago now we are a debt ridden rabble, selling off the training ground to try and make a quick buck.

I get your point, but at the end of the day we have to deal with whats infront of us. We can't change what has happened. The club is in a dire financial situation and if this helps us raise some funds to give us more time to get back into the PL, then I'm not going to lambast the idea myself.

 

5 minutes ago, WIR Second Coming said:

Oh yes, I can just see how the people of Brockhall Village would benefit..

erm..

Err...

Doh! No I can't!

Agreed. I can't even see these plans going ahead personally.

[AllRoverAsia]

I see the charm offensive has started here early.

Anyway the JTC is too small to house what we currently have if those surrounding small fields are not at least partly included.

Well its not too small if we shed some teams and we already are playing games in Leyland....

Its an asset selling cash raising exercise, mutton dressed as lamb. FB likes it!

I cant see the owners of all those houses backing on to the STC being too chuffed.

 

Edited February 21, 2021 by AllRoverAsia

[J*B]

Ok folks - just had to issue some bans, but I won’t hide the posts as it removes so much context. 

To be clear, @JoeH runs a small, local business and opts to sponsor the club. That is a good deed. We will accept questions to Joe on this relationship - and whether his opinion is changed because of it. 

We will not, under any circumstances, accept people attacking Joe because he sponsors the club. If you continue with personal attacks - at anybody - the moderators will issue bans. 

[rovers11]

After reading the plans, there’s no doubt this is a move to raise significant cash in the short term and cut running costs in the longer term. 

I’m not sure it has a negative impact in terms of player recruitment and retention - I suspect they will like the opportunity to train in more modern facilities and in a more private location not surrounded by houses. Having the young lads mix with the seniors at lunch etc also isn’t necessarily a bad thing. However, this isn’t the main motivation for the decision - it’s clearly a financial one as the amount we make from selling the STC will far outweigh the investment we make on the JTC.

For me, this is recognition that we’re firmly entrenched in the championship and won’t be getting a big pay day anytime soon with a return to the premier league. Something had to give eventually. 

[Mattyblue]

2 minutes ago, EgyptianPete said:

I really dont understand some of the logic on here, the Venkys have made our academy CAT 1 and put money in to keep it that way, name me local sides in our area in our division that do the same, if alalgamation of both centres in new state of the art buildings providing permission is granted then why is that not a good thing. We all know what jack built and are forever grateful, but time moves on, Would people on here have the same attitude if local owners had the same thought process.

‘Legacy’ isn’t just reminiscing about the good old days. It’s the tangible facilities, that they are now flogging off for housing.

If you choose to believe we’ll have facilities that will be 2021 industry leading, good for you, but I don’t.

Yes, if locals flogged half of Brockhall off, I’d still be furious. Just as I am more upset with the Walker family than anyone that’s come along since.

 

[Dreams of 1995]

44 minutes ago, JoeH said:

A newer building? More pragmatic use of the space? Financially beneficial? Cuts down costs and potentially some staffing costs too?

But that’s not the case. 
 

30 years isn’t old in a buildings life cycle - that point is moot. It is the facilities within it that count. 
 

It isn’t a more pragmatic use of the space. We are halving our real estate, we aren’t seeing the true value of that because there’s plenty of people to be paid in a housing development. 
 

We shouldn’t be looking at cutting costs in training / development. We want to be a Premier League club and this isn’t a premier league development. 
 

Next?

[EgyptianPete]

1 minute ago, J*B said:

Ok folks - just had to issue some bans, but I won’t hide the posts as it removes so much context. 

To be clear, @JoeH runs a small, local business and opts to sponsor the club. That is a good deed. We will accept questions to Joe on this relationship - and whether his opinion is changed because of it. 

We will not, under any circumstances, accept people attacking Joe because he sponsors the club. If you continue with personal attacks - at anybody - the moderators will issue bans. 

Well said 

 

[rovers11]

7 minutes ago, EgyptianPete said:

I really dont understand some of the logic on here, the Venkys have made our academy CAT 1 and put money in to keep it that way, name me local sides in our area in our division that do the same, if alalgamation of both centres in new state of the art buildings providing permission is granted then why is that not a good thing. We all know what jack built and are forever grateful, but time moves on, Would people on here have the same attitude if local owners had the same thought process.

In response to your last sentence: the problem is, do Venkys’s really have the clubs best interest at heart? Of course not. Local owners perhaps would have. That’s the difference 

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Hoochie Bloochie Mama said:

 

Where did you get the plans?

BRFCS posted them on Twitter.

[Ewood Ace]

1 minute ago, EgyptianPete said:

I really dont understand some of the logic on here, the Venkys have made our academy CAT 1 and put money in to keep it that way, name me local sides in our area in our division that do the same, if alalgamation of both centres in new state of the art buildings providing permission is granted then why is that not a good thing. We all know what jack built and are forever grateful, but time moves on, Would people on here have the same attitude if local owners had the same thought process.

But is not local owners doing it it is the owners who over the last decade have reduced the club to a shadow of its former self. Since Waggott has turned up nothing has been state of art everything has been on the cheap.

And all this is before you even get into what has happened at Coventry previously.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Hoochie Bloochie Mama said:

Who said that?

It's a question, with a ? at the end.

[Miller11]

@JoeH Please don’t take this as a dig, but the “Brockhall is 30 years old” comment that the club have been peddling and you used before is wrong, as has been previously pointed out.

30 years ago we were managed by Don Mackay, an extremely nice bloke who did good work but couldn’t quite take us to the level we aspired to be at... but that’s a whole other story. We trained amongst the dog shit and hearses on Pleasington.

Flippant, dismissive and erroneous comments about the top notch training facilities and academy that Jack gave us really rankle. It’s symptomatic of the general disregard for Jack’s legacy from those currently within the club. 

 

[Richard Oakley]

5 minutes ago, JoeH said:

I'm saying please don't make things up about me that aren't true and aren't based in any way on fact, just pure hearsay.

No, that is not what you were saying. You called me insane. You said the idea was tin foil hat time. I said you sounded like you were quoting something you'd received from the club. It would be crass incompetence, if the club did not send out to its sponsors information that would enable said sponsors to support what the club is trying to do.

[Guest]

Just now, Miller11 said:

@JoeH Please don’t take this as a dig, but the “Brockhall is 30 years old” comment that the club have been peddling and you used before is wrong, as has been previously pointed out.

30 years ago we were managed by Don Mackay, an extremely nice bloke who did good work but couldn’t quite take us to the level we aspired to be at... but that’s a whole other story. We trained amongst the dog shit and hearses on Pleasington.

Flippant, dismissive and erroneous comments about the top notch training facilities and academy that Jack gave us really rankle. It’s symptomatic of the general disregard for Jack’s legacy from those currently within the club. 

 

Where did this start? Do we know? As by my own admittance I've only used the phrase having heard it elsewhere.

[Herbie6590]

1 minute ago, JoeH said:

BRFCS posted them on Twitter.

They’re actually in this thread 😉

[EgyptianPete]

2 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

‘Legacy’ isn’t just reminiscing about the good old days. It’s the tangible facilities, that they are now flogging off for housing.

If you choose to believe we’ll have facilities that will be 2021 industry leading, good for you, but I don’t.

Yes, if locals flogged half of Brockhall off, I’d still be furious. Just as I am more upset with the Walker family than anyone that’s come along since.

 

Well i agree, the walker family in my mind are the main culprits in all this mess since Venkys took over, once Jack had passed all they wanted was his money, had thay waited until the end of that season they would have been cash rich with the new PL deal that happend the season after.