Brockhall STC - planning permission application ?

[Herbie6590]

9 hours ago, Hoochie Bloochie Mama said:

Interesting discussion (to me anyway😉) but I'm still none the wiser! And very tired! 

In the words of Vic & Bob I just couldn’t let it lie....😉

Upon checking...the share capital increases are with the parent company VLL. The company that is subject to FFP is the football trading entity BRFC (per Kieran Maguire’s podcast) not the parent.

Let’s look at the BRFC figures then to see what V’s have injected...

June 16 - share capital £146.9m, loans from parent £87.2m

June 19 - share capital unchanged, parent loans £126.8m

The owner has therefore introduced funds of....£39.6m...spooky (!)...over a 3 year period. This suggests that Rovers are sailing close to the FFP wind as of June 19. The June 20 numbers will reflect some of the Covid impacts but the June 21 ones will potentially be a bloodbath....hence the whole Brockhall project IMHO...

 

 

[Hasta]

The Coventry thread is up -

https://www.skybluestalk.co.uk/threads/blackburn-selling-off-training-ground.129388/

The detailed post is interesting, mainly on his views on Mowbray and his recruitment.

[Hoochie Bloochie Mama]

Just now, Hasta said:

The Coventry thread is up -

https://www.skybluestalk.co.uk/threads/blackburn-selling-off-training-ground.129388/

The detailed post is interesting, mainly on his views on Mowbray and his recruitment.

link doesn't work for me. 

[perthblue02]

10 minutes ago, Hoochie Bloochie Mama said:

link doesn't work for me. 

It was there a minute ago I read it, just tried again and your right it's gone!

[Hasta]

It says "Pending approval" again when I look at it now.

Venus isn't popular but it looks like he was manager when they went down which isn't going to help. The detailed reply was:-

 

Quote

Had a brief skim through your lots thread on this.
Interesting to see you have Mowbray, Venus and Waggott involved.

Venus is/or at least was somehow involved in a property company. This was documented when he was with us.
There were rumblings that our training ground was going the same way yours may do. That is basically the only thing CCFC own!

Mowbray, as you know, was manager here for around 18 months.
He set off like a steam train with some good young loans including Armstrong, Jacob Murphy and Ryan Kent, plus our own 18yr old James Maddison. We topped LG 1 in November, but Ryan Kent got recalled by Klopp and that was the catalyst for our season falling apart. Mowbray lived up to his own self-fulfilling prophecy of falling away half way through the season (he said to be wary that previously at Middlesbrough despite a great start they fell away badly, setting the scene himself for exactly what happened) from December, form was horrific and recruitment was a disaster (we had zero cash). January window was has-beens and summer recruitment was last minute dregs after he gambled on high profile loans ( EG tammy Abraham) who was never in a million years going to come to us. One win in ten and he stepped down leaving Venus in charge, who lasted until roughly Christmas. We were relegated with one of the worst sides in our history.

Waggott is an interesting one. Someone mentioned about picking up our training ground on the cheap through otium entertainment (him being a director)- that is our current trading name (after Sky Blue sports and leisure) after our last administration (our owners sold the club back to themselves basically!)

Not sure how long he lasted and whether he was here during the Mowbray/Venus era. Very interesting if he was. He was part of the shit-show period of the club and he was quite possibly advising very poorly at this point ,

I'm sure others will add their thoughts/knowledge on Venus, his property involvement and Waggott and his role at our club.

 

Edited February 22, 2021 by Hasta

[Herbie6590]

1 minute ago, perthblue02 said:

It was there a minute ago I read it, just tried again and your right it's gone!

Somebody concerned about m’learned friends...

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

16 hours ago, booth said:

Or it could just be the same people who supported Kean.

In the Riverside I witnessed a guy try to initiate a fist fight with the two blokes behind him, with his wife and small child watching, all because one of them shouted Kean out. Nothing more, no swearing or anything offensive. Infact there had been swearing in that section but not from them. The guy with the wife and kid just went mental, accused him of being a Burnley fan then started squaring up. The two guys, I'd say around their early forties told him to calm down and didn't take him on. Another bloke who he didn't seem to know had to hold him back from hitting them. Stewards came, saw the guy was with his family and moved the two guys who had done nothing wrong on despite other fans explaining it wasn't them.

Had the two blokes felt like it they could have broken the guy in half but I guess Kean was much more important to this guy, more important than scaring the life out of his kid and his wife.

Some people are just gullible, brainwashed or just don't want to face the reality.

If the two guys were really Burnley fans they'd have been shouting " Kean In ! "

Edited February 22, 2021 by Tyrone Shoelaces

[Hasta]

9 minutes ago, Herbie6590 said:

Somebody concerned about m’learned friends...

Probably. The 'other' thread which somebody opened asking why it had been removed last night has also been locked now.

[perthblue02]

Both Waggot and Venus were directors at Otium entertainment group ltd but not at the same time. Probably as Directors of the group that own Coventry

https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/07612487/officers

21 minutes ago, Hasta said:

It says "Pending approval" again when I look at it now.

Venus isn't popular but it looks like he was manager when they went down which isn't going to help. The detailed reply was:-

 

 

 

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

2 hours ago, 47er said:

This will be a lengthy process, time for some local Rovers supporters to get on the Parish Council and the Ribble Borough Council.

Looks to me like Venkys at last see a means of getting their money back. If Rovers fans get in their way will they take revenge on the Club and cut off funding? You'd have to suspect so.

They probably think they have us where they want us.

Could be a pivotal moment in our history. I'm getting to the point where I just want to switch off. I have been supporting this club for over 70 years, it has been a huge focus in my life but I've never felt like I do now. I'm almost at the point of saying "do your worst and bugger off, I don't care anymore".

I'd sooner be a casual supporter at Accrington or Chorley (never Burnley) than feel this debacle eating me away year after year without hope.

That's their plan. Demoralise the support base to the point were nobody will care when they pull the plug.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

1 hour ago, perthblue02 said:

Looking at the comments, it is not the first time since the news broke I have seen people thinking that Rovers will get the money from the newly built house sales!

Whatever, I wouldn't want Mowbray to get another penny of it. 

[Richard Oakley]

@Herbie6590 The rule is for £13m of new share capital over a rolling 3 year period and £39m of losses over the rolling 3 year period, assuming club is in the Championship for each of those years. With coronavirus the rolling period was increased to 4 years though I don't know if the club gets to pick the best 3 years out of 4. I think it means that the next assessment for FFP is at the end of next season and we're in breach of the Championship rules, but not of those in League 1, which are different.

[CCFC PS]

5 minutes ago, Hasta said:

Probably. The 'other' thread which somebody opened asking why it had been removed last night has also been locked now.

Hi all - should be ok now - was down at our end for a bit (presume as it was being moved) - I posted the detailed ish post.

There will be guys on our forum who have more detailed knowledge on Venus and Waggott, 

Venus was sacked around Jan time and the club brought in Slade - absolute joke of a manager The combination of Mowbray, Venus and Slade  - management and recruitment took us down with the worst side I have ever seen.

There was rumoured to be something going on with our training ground which was linked to Venus

Waggott - god only knows what he did behind the scenes.

 

Really interesting that the same people seem to be trying something similar as to what was rumored to be possible at CCFC. 

Although - our nemesis's at Wasps have done a similar thing - brought a training ground (Brought=wrestled away from a local community with underhand tactics!) and it is heavily rumoured that they will sell of a massive part of the land for housing to make money as they are so skint and Covid has hit their income as with so many - They have also had millions in money from our Coventry City Council - who despise us and want us under our current guise/owners out of existence!

Hope this works out for you lot - but could well be a move to stabilise finances after a horrific period with Covid. Guessing your model has much more outlay/much more to lose than ours (Second lowest budget behind Wycombe I am led to believe)

[Hoochie Bloochie Mama]

18 hours ago, Hasta said:

It says "Pending approval" again when I look at it.

Venus isn't popular but it looks like he was manager when they went down which isn't going to help. The detailed reply was:-

 

 

Thanks. And Waggott left CCFC in 2015. He was brought in by SISU in 2011 (which was linked to Otium Entertainment - the company who bought  Cov's training ground and sold it for housing)

Steve Waggott: Coventry City chief executive leaves club - BBC Sport

Another who was a director at Otium Entertainment was Mark Venus if this link is correct. 

One Possible Explanation For Mark Venus At The Ryton Parish Council Meeting - Coventry MAD (coventrycity-mad.co.uk)

Oh, and CCFC sold their training ground to Otium Entertainment in 2013 at a knockdown price, when Waggott was on the board at CCFC.

And Waggott left CCFC in late 2015, shortly after it became known the training ground was going to become housing - June 2015. 

Training Ground Sell Off To Go Ahead - Coventry MAD (coventrycity-mad.co.uk)

Detailed plans announced in late 2016. 

Coventry City plans unveiled for 76 new homes at Ryton training ground - CoventryLive (coventrytelegraph.net)

 

Edited February 23, 2021 by Hoochie Bloochie Mama

[Richard Oakley]

Otium the subsidiary of SISU that bought Coventry City out of the administration SISU put the club into. Proper checks and balances?

Pity the EFL can't stop the Coventry Three from doing the same here.

[Miller11]

So Venus was a director of Otium Entertainment (basically Coventry City) while also serving as manager/assistant manager!

Thats... unusual.

[RevidgeBlue]

9 hours ago, JoeH said:

May I ask on what legal grounds the clubs proposals will be opposed? If there's no community type protection on the site, is there much anyone can do to stop them from making the decision (if planning permission granted)?

If anyone a bit more knowledgable than me on the subject knows then please do let me know

What's it to you?

Why do you appear to be so invested in the scheme going ahead?

[RevidgeBlue]

17 hours ago, Mattyblue said:

For such a massive change for the club, an ‘exciting’ one, no less. Why was there not a single person named in that statement? 

Why were the owners not mentioned, considering they are normally thanked for their unstinting commitment and every purchase, from players to grass seed.

Where was the Chief Exec, surely the driver and sponsor of such pivotal infrastructure plans?

Where was the team manager backing this exciting combining of facilities?

Where was the Academy director promoting the links with the first team and how it can only help our Cat 1 status.

Nowhere and that speaks volumes...

 

Spot on. 

No-one at the Club had the courage to put their name to the press release which should tell you all you need to know about whether it is beneficial to the football side of things.

[JHRover]

48 minutes ago, Miller11 said:

So Venus was a director of Otium Entertainment (basically Coventry City) while also serving as manager/assistant manager!

Thats... unusual.

Strangely Venus wasn't assistant manager at Coventry. This is very odd.

He has followed Mowbray to every club Mowbray has been manager at and has acted as his trusted sidekick/assistant manager. At Coventry he didn't join as Mowbray's assistant. He joined the club as Technical Director overseeing recruitment and the 'football structure' and he got a seat on the board as a result. Very interesting as to why Mowbray would chose to do that rather than put him on coaching duties like he has everywhere else.

All very strange. It is very clear that he joined Coventry as a director on the recommendation or instruction of Mowbray. 

Once again it raises questions of how and why Mowbray is appointing friends as directors to a football club where he is already manager.

I think there is a lot more to come out in the wash here with this. I'm going to be busy this week

 

Edited February 22, 2021 by JHRover

[Miller11]

2 minutes ago, JHRover said:

Strangely Venus wasn't assistant manager at Coventry. This is very odd.

He has followed Mowbray to every club Mowbray has been manager at and has acted as his trusted sidekick/assistant manager. At Coventry he didn't join as Mowbray's assistant. He joined the club as Technical Director overseeing recruitment and the 'football structure'. 

All very strange. It is very clear that he joined Coventry as a director on the recommendation or instruction of Mowbray. 

Once again it raises questions of how and why Mowbray is appointing friends as directors to a football club where he is already manager.

I think there is a lot more to come out in the wash here with this. I'm going to be busy this week

 

Ah, ok... very odd. And he got the managers job when his pal walked.

More going on with Venus than meets the eye... by all accounts his remit goes well beyond that of an assistant manager here.

[Miller11]

All things considered, this part of the official club statement that came out on Saturday stands out...

The club is therefore looking at a plan to develop a new coaching structure – to support and accelerate player pathway through the system 

That just reads as “We are scrapping the academy model”

[Blue blood]

2 minutes ago, Miller11 said:

All things considered, this part of the official club statement that came out on Saturday stands out...

The club is therefore looking at a plan to develop a new coaching structure – to support and accelerate player pathway through the system 

That just reads as “We are scrapping the academy model”

Good plan. After all what has the academy brought us in terms of first team players recently. Not like our best centre back and central midfielder are both academy graduates. Or the sort of first choice right back. Or prior to that the keeper as well. Not like there's any players on the fringes of the squad either with potential. Clearly in need of a change as evidently players aren't making the first team squad. 

 

[tomphil]

2 hours ago, Herbie6590 said:

The purpose of the Academy is two-fold, provide first team players, then sell them to help fund the clubs working capital.

If we lose Cat 1 status, both of those become harder.

Developing other clubs players of course helps them....so it would be perverse in the extreme to pursue that intellectual argument....*insert pithy comment here* 🤨

If you are saying to the owners though that we can borrow 3 high end kids every season whilst having their wages mostly covered by their clubs in return for x amount of appearances ???

Then Madame we don't really need to be spending money annually on a Cat 1, a much cheaper Cat 2 will suffice.  We are loaning in kids better than what we can attract and produce at a fraction of the costs. The Cat 2 will provide a few good enough to fill out the squad and still unearth the odd rough diamond. The rest we can recoup a few quid selling to lower league clubs.

Academy downgrade - save c 2mill a year

Training complex merge - save x amount per year

Sale of land - 10 mill profit ?

Waggot & co are dangerous people to have around they are downgraders not ambitious savvy club builders.  The clue is in the CV.

 

[perthblue02]

10 minutes ago, Miller11 said:

All things considered, this part of the official club statement that came out on Saturday stands out...

The club is therefore looking at a plan to develop a new coaching structure – to support and accelerate player pathway through the system 

That just reads as “We are scrapping the academy model”

Or somebody wants more new drones to play with. From what we have seen on the pitch since their introduction the current ones seem pretty useless as a training tool .

Wonder if they got a licence to fly the drones around brockhall, noisy little buggers and disturbing to wildlife. 🙂

[Hasta]

3 minutes ago, Blue blood said:

Good plan. After all what has the academy brought us in terms of first team players recently. Not like our best centre back and central midfielder are both academy graduates. Or the sort of first choice right back. Or prior to that the keeper as well. Not like there's any players on the fringes of the squad either with potential. Clearly in need of a change as evidently players aren't making the first team squad. 

 

Yep. Once it's gone it's gone - for any future owners of the club.