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Brockhall STC - planning permission application ?


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21 minutes ago, 1864roverite said:

 

I wouldn’t think we would survive if they just upped and left us in the lurch, we might see BRFC a winding up case like Bury.

Why would we follow Bury? Would Wigan and Bolton not be more appropriate?

 

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2 hours ago, SIMON GARNERS 194 said:

Where are the plans for the new training complex?....

There aren't any yet. These applications are for a proof of concept to be put to the two councils to get their views on the principle of the two developments. There would be no point in employing quantity surveyors and the like at considerable cost to draw up plans for a building that might never be built.

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4 hours ago, only2garners said:

There aren't any yet. These applications are for a proof of concept to be put to the two councils to get their views on the principle of the two developments. There would be no point in employing quantity surveyors and the like at considerable cost to draw up plans for a building that might never be built.

Come on John, I realise this is the line that's been fed to you by the Club and quite possibly not your personal opinion but still!

They certainly don't seem to have minded incurring "considerable cost" in carrying out careful planning to see how many units they could possibly squeeze onto the proposed housing development and drawing up detailed plans of those do they?

How significant would the cost of  drawing a few proper plans  up of the new training centre actually be in the context of the entire scheme? Surely, if they were serious about it, and there was genuine merit to the scheme, the more detail that was provided, the more likely people would be to support it.

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Actually it is my opinion Simon.

I suspect any architect worth his fees can draw up a plan to fill a given plot of land with a quick plan as to how many houses you can fit on it. They will probably have a bit of software that can knock it out in minutes. It's a lot different to design a one-off building from scratch. There will be significant costs in producing the detailed building design. The houses on the other hand would I assume be designed and developed by whoever buys the land and builds them.

I have no idea why anyone wold be more likely to support the plans if they had been presented with some fancy design drawings now. The councils know what a football training building looks like, more or less, as there are already two on site. Whilst what goes inside the new one might very well be more up to date I doubt the outside will look significantly dfferent.

What is absolutely clear is that this is a proof of concept application. It could very easily be thrown out by both councils at the first attempt. Even if they get a green light to go to the next stage it will take a very long time to get full planning permission, I would expect years and there will still be no guarantees of success.

I would doubt that even the proof of concept will be sorted before the councils go into purdah ahead of the May elections.

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1 hour ago, only2garners said:

Actually it is my opinion Simon.

I suspect any architect worth his fees can draw up a plan to fill a given plot of land with a quick plan as to how many houses you can fit on it. They will probably have a bit of software that can knock it out in minutes. It's a lot different to design a one-off building from scratch. There will be significant costs in producing the detailed building design. The houses on the other hand would I assume be designed and developed by whoever buys the land and builds them.

I have no idea why anyone wold be more likely to support the plans if they had been presented with some fancy design drawings now. The councils know what a football training building looks like, more or less, as there are already two on site. Whilst what goes inside the new one might very well be more up to date I doubt the outside will look significantly dfferent.

What is absolutely clear is that this is a proof of concept application. It could very easily be thrown out by both councils at the first attempt. Even if they get a green light to go to the next stage it will take a very long time to get full planning permission, I would expect years and there will still be no guarantees of success.

I would doubt that even the proof of concept will be sorted before the councils go into purdah ahead of the May elections.

I honestly don't know how to reply to that John, the amount of time it will take to come to fruition is completely irrelevant.

A bad idea or an outright scam (take your pick) is still a bad idea or an outright scam if it doesn't come to light until a few years later.

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16 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Brilliant analogy, if I may flesh out the detail of the entire project a bit:

"My gate is starting to look a bit tired and needs a new coat of varnish and a couple of hinges.

However, this bloke I know has suggested that instead  if I knock down my house, he'll build me a smaller one and throw in a new gate instead.

I'll end up with a house half the size of the old one and may even have to contribute a considerable amount of money towards the project. 

I don't even know what the new gate will do that the old one wouldn't. The bloke says however the gate will look great and be "state of the art". 

I think I trust him, so hey ho we'll give it a go!"

More concerning is what the new one won't do that the old one does...

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29 minutes ago, Roverthechimp said:

More concerning is what the new one won't do that the old one does...

Yes, I forgot to put that in. Because the shiny looking gate is half the size of the original as well it probably won't be fit for it's original purpose of stopping next door's dog from jumping over and chewing up my flower bed!

(Or in Rovers' case, maintaining Cat 1 Academy Status)

Edited by RevidgeBlue
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45 minutes ago, Roverthechimp said:

Anyone hazard a serious guess at what typical land procurement costs are for this kind of housing project? (Either as a cash figure or typical percentage of budget)

If you mean what is the likely sale price of the land you are looking at circa £15 million. 

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5 minutes ago, Ozz said:

If you mean what is the likely sale price of the land you are looking at circa £15 million. 

Would that be the case as soon as the initial screening applications were passed or only some years down the line after full planning permission was granted?

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Is,

26 minutes ago, Ozz said:

Assuming that the sale went ahead, and I am far from convinced it will, if Rovers got MORE than the book value ( not sure what it is currently) but the profit would certainly help with FFP

https://www.sheffieldwednesday.news/news/multi-million-pound-sale-should-put-wednesday-in-clear-regarding-ffp-expert/

 

Is the Trust opposing the Brockhall  development? 

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16 hours ago, Leonard Venkhater said:

Reclaim the Rovers...I love that....I will see if my friend can design me a T-shirt!

Sign me up for one of those! Heck, sign me up for 5 in sizes to fit me, my 2 grown up sons and 2  little daughters !

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10 hours ago, RevidgeBlue said:

I absolutely despair. To summarise to date:

- Months of careful planning must have gone on on the quiet ascertaining the maximum potential of the proposed housing development site.

- the screening application has been sneaked in under the radar with zero consultation of either fans or local residents

- Seemingly there has been no consideration given to simply upgrading the existing training  facilities nor has this even been costed up

- the level of thought and planning that has gone into a new training centre extends to a white or red oblong superimposed onto a Google Earth map.

- to reinforce this the specification for the new training centre on the screening application  has simply been copied off that of the existing  STC and the screening application refers to the proposed new build being of "a similar scale".

- Waggott has no idea whatsoever how much the new training centre would cost.

- we have no specific confirmation the owners would meet any shortfall if needed.

- Waggott has no idea if we could configure the pitches outside on a limited space or provide the facilities required inside a single facility the size of the STC to meet existing Cat 1 Academy requirements.

- There is the obvious Coventry connection where the same protagonists attempted to sell their training ground for development.

-Waggott has told the Fans Trust that the owners have categorically NOT asked  him to sell land to raise money

- The people at Coventry even gave exactly the same non benefit for justifying the scheme as they have done here "being under the same roof".

- Neither the manager nor Waggott are able to cite one genuine advantage to the Club arising out of this scheme out or cite one specific example of how the new facilities would be better than the existing ones.

Yet some people still seem to think it could be a good idea! What more evidence do you need?

 

 

That is what I would call a blistering dismembering of a flawed plan being peddled by crooks. BRAVO, Rev, BRAVO!

 

 

Edited by WIR Second Coming
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2 hours ago, Ozz said:

Assuming that the sale went ahead, and I am far from convinced it will, if Rovers got MORE than the book value ( not sure what it is currently) but the profit would certainly help with FFP

https://www.sheffieldwednesday.news/news/multi-million-pound-sale-should-put-wednesday-in-clear-regarding-ffp-expert/

 

Waggott actually said that the money brought in by the sale of the STC would all be used in the Academy development and was at pains to point out that the owners may need to be approached for more money if needed. I personally wouldn't trust him and this could be a tactic to cover anything illicit from him and his cohorts but for me it added to the mystique of why they are doing it. The cost, upheaval and many other things massively outweigh the benefits he spoke of which are flimsy at best.

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On the subject of drawings for training facilities and houses O2g is right in that the cost to produce them site plans for the housing development would be minimal in comparison to the cost of design drawings for the training centre. Although they could have at least knocked up a concept design as opposed to the red box we have.

Although the key is in the 'inclusions' - the concept for the training facility does not match up to the spec of what we have currently. It is a downgrade, simple as that.

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12 hours ago, RevidgeBlue said:

I honestly don't know how to reply to that John, the amount of time it will take to come to fruition is completely irrelevant.

Simon - my first post was responding to someone asking why there are no detailed plans for the new training centre and I just went on to outline my view that the project is years from any completion and may not happen at all. It wasn't a comment one way or the other on the project's desirability.

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