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http://www.roverschat.com/2021/03/09/why-rovers-shouldnt-spend-a-penny-in-the-summer/

Thought this as a discussion topic is an interesting one.

Totally get the angle of being self sustainable but I think that is simply impossible as a competitive Championship club. I dont think on a minimal budget or solely feeding from the academy that we could find a few sellable assets each year to do this.

I think this would be essentially be giving up any ambition and probably lead to relegation within 2 or 3 seasons in my opinion.

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He's trying to deliver........ a land sale and a state of the art downscale. Everything Waggot does is squeeze what you have till it bursts, he isn't about ambition or building he's about streaml

To be fair, it’s very well written, a lot of thought has gone into it and it’s an alternative viewpoint, I just completely disagree with it....

Down to the manager. End of.  Are Cardiff or Barnsley better players man for man than us? No chance, the stark difference is in the dugout.

6 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

http://www.roverschat.com/2021/03/09/why-rovers-shouldnt-spend-a-penny-in-the-summer/

Thought this as a discussion topic is an interesting one.

Totally get the angle of being self sustainable but I think that is simply impossible as a competitive Championship club. I dont think on a minimal budget or solely feeding from the academy that we could find a few sellable assets each year to do this.

I think this would be essentially be giving up any ambition and probably lead to relegation within 2 or 3 seasons in my opinion.

Step 1 - Get a better manager. 

The end. 

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12 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

http://www.roverschat.com/2021/03/09/why-rovers-shouldnt-spend-a-penny-in-the-summer/

Thought this as a discussion topic is an interesting one.

Totally get the angle of being self sustainable but I think that is simply impossible as a competitive Championship club. I dont think on a minimal budget or solely feeding from the academy that we could find a few sellable assets each year to do this.

I think this would be essentially be giving up any ambition and probably lead to relegation within 2 or 3 seasons in my opinion.

Of course it would, one of the naivest articles I’ve ever read in my life. Just shows you can post as many graphs about xG and the like as you want, but can still have so little insight into what makes football and footballers tick...


 

Edited by Mattyblue
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Biggest load of tripe I've ever read. Yes let's pretend we weren't an established epl team before venkys arrived. Surviving thanks to John Williams brilliant management.  Let's stay a championship side forever because our level is Rotherham Luton Millwall etc. Venkys and Mowbray have really dumbed people down 

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It’s sounds nice , authentic, dare I say sensible but the reality is after doing this for only one season we would easily be in a relegation dog fight and related within three years , cat 1 goes and the kids arnt coming through. It’s the recipe for oblivion 

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To be fair, it’s very well written, a lot of thought has gone into it and it’s an alternative viewpoint, I just completely disagree with it....

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It's well written and all that but as mentioned above very naive it's the recipe for a league 1 club.  

If the sum total of our ambition is to run that model we might as well pack in now. Just look at what it takes just to keep the club and others at the current level. Although it's a bit misleading trying to say it's taking 20 million to finish 15th as a lot of that is covering accumulated losses from years past. And still paying for a few players as well as pay offs.

What it needs is the best making of the backing the owners are happy to give, despite a couple of good efforts recently that isn't the case.

Can't help thinking this kind of stuff is finding it's way out of the club as a bit of propaganda on the back of the training ground stuff. Perish the thought if the owners are being fed this stuff and beginning to swallow it, no disrespect but a 15 year old could come up with such a fanciful plan. It is in every sense a big downgrade from the model we have now which as long as it has finance just needs tweaking. It needs running like an ambitious set up not one serving the level of those running it because it's all they can do.

The same account has been pushing the possession stats telling us we are better than previous seasons because the passing stats are better. That's how naive it is.

Edited by tomphil
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I actually think it’s riddled with nonsense myself.

1) Reading in the list of clubs who make it hard for us to compete

2) Blinkered view to what a premier league wage is: “sell anyone earning £10k+”

3) Recruit players with maximum budget of £500k, didn’t L1 Whiteman go for a few million in January? 

4) Finally, the reasoning that doing the above will save us over £20m a year...Not a chance. 
 

xG was mentioned in a comment, it’s a shame because analytical insight is something that as a club we can’t afford to fall behind at. However, this article is just drivel really. Not quite as bad as the 2 minutes I lost reading some Nixon tosh about how we want a foreign manager though.

 

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A great 6 point plan for how to get relegated but not for anything else. In fact it is pretty much what we did before we got relegated last time, sell our best players and replace them with cheap players and academy players. 

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Put it this way if Venkys ever totally cut funding or took their debt and fired off that's exactly the model we'd be left with.

To actually scale down from what we have now to that is beyond crazy and a sure fire way to become an established lower league club. Dreaming of being midtable in the championship propped up by billionaire share issues. 

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That is the back up plan when the Venkys decide to stop the 20m per season. Not sure what the point is in not going for it. We went for it this year and Mowbray has fallen short. That is on TM not the strategy. If Venkys want to back him for another year then why not 

Edited by Fraserkirky
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10 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

http://www.roverschat.com/2021/03/09/why-rovers-shouldnt-spend-a-penny-in-the-summer/

Thought this as a discussion topic is an interesting one.

Totally get the angle of being self sustainable but I think that is simply impossible as a competitive Championship club. I dont think on a minimal budget or solely feeding from the academy that we could find a few sellable assets each year to do this.

I think this would be essentially be giving up any ambition and probably lead to relegation within 2 or 3 seasons in my opinion.

I think these days people never really see the big picture. It is sport, it is competition and yet money dominates.  

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What a load of tosh that article is, as already stated by others. Hearing Mowbray talking drivel about stats makes me feel that pretty much all of the Rovers lot at the moment are clueless and blinded by arbitrary statistics. Won't surprise me if Mowbray and Venkys are being peddled plenty of rubbish, it's so easy to manipulate data and present it in anyway you want.

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3 hours ago, Herbie6590 said:

I’d say the CEO also needs to be delivering a lot more to justify his salary 

He's trying to deliver........ a land sale and a state of the art downscale.

Everything Waggot does is squeeze what you have till it bursts, he isn't about ambition or building he's about streamlining. That's why he was at both Coventry and Charlton because they were down scaling to the lower leagues.

Totally the wrong man for where this club needs to be the evidence was there after promotion when there should have been a real drive.  I hope the owners wake up to this and soon.

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On 09/03/2021 at 19:58, K-Hod said:

To be fair, it’s very well written, a lot of thought has gone into it and it’s an alternative viewpoint, I just completely disagree with it....

And that's okay. It's nice to read people's thoughts on it and the best outcome possible for this article has been the pretty mature discussion it's allowed on here and on social media.

I think people are right that a strategy like that comes with its own risks, but the current strategy is already risking our long term future in a drastic way. A league one relegation may be depressing, but I'd rather be there in a sustainable club structure than be in Bolton or Bury's position.

22 hours ago, Feed the Yak said:

What a load of tosh that article is

As for this comment, I don't think there's any need. It's something I think has been thought out properly, wasn't rushed and has been delivered in the best possible way. You can disagree but I just don't think this is appropriate.

 

On 09/03/2021 at 19:44, Oldgregg86 said:

It’s sounds nice , authentic, dare I say sensible but the reality is after doing this for only one season we would easily be in a relegation dog fight and related within three years , cat 1 goes and the kids arnt coming through. It’s the recipe for oblivion 

Perhaps, it's definitely plausible. All in all I just think you can achieve 15th in the Championship on a significantly smaller budget than the one were currently operating.

 

On 09/03/2021 at 19:15, roverandout said:

Yes let's pretend we weren't an established epl team before venkys arrived

I don't think it's about pretending, it's about realisation of where we are now. The past has happened. You can be aware of it and still understand that we don't have some god given right to be in the top flight.

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On 09/03/2021 at 17:44, Mattyblue said:

Of course it would, one of the naivest articles I’ve ever read in my life. Just shows you can post as many graphs about xG and the like as you want, but can still have so little insight into what makes football and footballers tick...

 

Again, I think this is wholly unnecessary. It's an opinion, an idea, one put forward in a very calm & thought out way, and disagreement is not just welcomed, but encouraged. I don't think we need to be resorting to personal things like this. Not the first time you've done this either.

Edited by JoeH
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On 09/03/2021 at 20:34, tomphil said:

The same account has been pushing the possession stats telling us we are better than previous seasons because the passing stats are better. That's how naive it is.

I don't do that. Complete myth. I actively encourage us to have less possession as we win more often when we have less, and have done for over a year... Come on.

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Welcome the debate 100% from those willing to talk about it maturely!

I'd love to hear the alternatives. I think personally that a budget of £5m for the summer gets us absolutely nowhere but even further into debt. To make this side promotion worthy, not just scraping 6th worthy, but promotion worthy, it would take a hell of a lot more than that £5m budget once the likes of Elliott and others are gone.

This summer we'll spend roughly that figure, build a squad that we'll be told is promotion candidate worthy, fall short and recycle the exact same strategy again next season. I think it's failing us and making us less and less and less a sustainable club with a long term future. Every single year we attempt this and fail we just head further and further down the same rabbit hole.

I've presented an alternative. Lord knows Brentford operate this way and have managed to grow slowly, yet sustainably over the last five years. They've developed and developed their youth system (albeit slightly different to ours in their B team structure), sold their valuable assets and reinvested. I think it's plausible to operate at least some of what has been suggested in the article to try and make the club less of a debt creating mess year on year.

I think we can all acknowledge that what we're trying right now isn't working. The question is what is the alternative. I've attempted to put one idea forward, maybe you disagree with it, but what's your alternative?

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29 minutes ago, JoeH said:

I don't do that. Complete myth. I actively encourage us to have less possession as we win more often when we have less, and have done for over a year... Come on.

Apologies but at first you were presenting it in a way that said we were improving because the passing stats were better than recent years.  Then you get some agreeing saying we are on the right lines, you're all basically repeating what the manager trots out however results and league position strongly suggest otherwise.

As for the above stuff on a plan forwards we were in a stronger starting position than Brentford. How many academy players have we had in or knocking on the first team door already ?  Only real difference to them has been we haven't been buying cheap and selling for a profit to plough back into the squad.

If we were thinking of following them we've already been badly mis-managed signing a kid for 7 million and another guy for 5 million.  Plus they sold our highly rated but erratic young keeper for a modest fee.........to bloody Brentford !

To pull what we have now to pieces and rebuild smaller to follow them is plain crazy. Once Vs stop pumping money in they might never start again. Sorry but it's an absolute fact of life Championship clubs need outside money to be sustainable. 

Whilst we have it we should use if correctly not on whims, either way whichever route is followed it needs a very good manager and boardroom setup.  Following your plan under Venkys is doomed to failure and lower league football.

 

Edited by tomphil
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18 minutes ago, JoeH said:

 

I'd love to hear the alternatives. I think personally that a budget of £5m for the summer gets us absolutely nowhere but even further into debt. To make this side promotion worthy, not just scraping 6th worthy, but promotion worthy, it would take a hell of a lot more than that £5m budget once the likes of Elliott and others are gone.

 

Give a seasoned manager at this level like a McCarthy a £5m budget with the squad we already had and I don't think we would be far off those top 6 positions at all.

Edited by MarkBRFC
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