Jump to content

Recommended Posts

4 minutes ago, MarkBRFC said:

Give a seasoned manager at this level like a McCarthy a £5m budget with the squad we already had and I don't think we would be far off those top 6 positions at all.

Do you think? Fair enough. It’s probably the most common response but I just don’t know if the squad without Elliott, Nyambe, Armstrong etc... is promotion worthy with a £5m budget, no matter who the manager is

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 64
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

He's trying to deliver........ a land sale and a state of the art downscale. Everything Waggot does is squeeze what you have till it bursts, he isn't about ambition or building he's about streaml

To be fair, it’s very well written, a lot of thought has gone into it and it’s an alternative viewpoint, I just completely disagree with it....

Down to the manager. End of.  Are Cardiff or Barnsley better players man for man than us? No chance, the stark difference is in the dugout.

36 minutes ago, JoeH said:

And that's okay. It's nice to read people's thoughts on it and the best outcome possible for this article has been the pretty mature discussion it's allowed on here and on social media.

I think people are right that a strategy like that comes with its own risks, but the current strategy is already risking our long term future in a drastic way. A league one relegation may be depressing, but I'd rather be there in a sustainable club structure than be in Bolton or Bury's position.

As for this comment, I don't think there's any need. It's something I think has been thought out properly, wasn't rushed and has been delivered in the best possible way. You can disagree but I just don't think this is appropriate.

 

Perhaps, it's definitely plausible. All in all I just think you can achieve 15th in the Championship on a significantly smaller budget than the one were currently operating.

 

I don't think it's about pretending, it's about realisation of where we are now. The past has happened. You can be aware of it and still understand that we don't have some god given right to be in the top flight.

But the fact remains we WERE an established epl team. We had every God given right to expect to be kept up there. Venkys have destroyed the club. We weren't some club barely keeping our heads above water. We were midtable.  16 out of tge 18 premiership seasons in there. You can be naive but don't expect everyone else to be

Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, tomphil said:

Apologies but at first you were presenting it in a way that said we were improving because the passing stats were better than recent years.  Then you get some agreeing saying we are on the right lines, you're all basically repeating what the manager trots out however results and league position strongly suggest otherwise.

 

No. That’s not what I’m doing. We’re statistically better when we have less possession. My favourite game this season was the Derby away match where we had just 36% and won 4-0, I’ve made no secret of that on the platform

Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, roverandout said:

But the fact remains we WERE an established epl team. We had every God given right to expect to be kept up there. Venkys have destroyed the club. We weren't some club barely keeping our heads above water. We were midtable.  16 out of tge 18 premiership seasons in there. You can be naive but don't expect everyone else to be

I KNOW we WERE an established PL team.

I KNOW we DID have a right to be there.

I’m aware that Venky’s disrupted that.

I understand we weren’t some club barely keeping ourselves above water.

I’m not focusing on what was, what could’ve been and what shouldn’t have been - im focusing on what IS.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, JoeH said:

I KNOW we WERE an established PL team.

I KNOW we DID have a right to be there.

I’m aware that Venky’s disrupted that.

I understand we weren’t some club barely keeping ourselves above water.

I’m not focusing on what was, what could’ve been and what shouldn’t have been - im focusing on what IS.

Ok I will tell you what is....venkys can take a jump off a big cliff and take Mowbray with them. Sorry to be so blunt

Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, LDRover said:

Down to the manager. End of. 

Are Cardiff or Barnsley better players man for man than us?

No chance, the stark difference is in the dugout.

Do you think the best of championship managers could see us promoted without Armstrong and Elliott?

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, JoeH said:

Do you think the best of championship managers could see us promoted without Armstrong and Elliott?

Could argue that we have looked the best we have for weeks in the last two games where neither of them started...

But yeah we have potentially missed the boat, but if we had someone else in the dugout this season with this squad, even if it was only from January I think we would be a lot closer to those top 6 positions than we are now.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, JoeH said:

I think people are right that a strategy like that comes with its own risks, but the current strategy is already risking our long term future in a drastic way. A league one relegation may be depressing, but I'd rather be there in a sustainable club structure than be in Bolton or Bury's position.

This plan would most likely see us end up where Bolton are now, in League 2. The club's debt is getting on for £200 Million and the only way that get's sorted in anyway and the club get's back on a steady financial footing is by getting promoted to the Premiership.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Right now we aren't talking about promotion it was always a fantasy this season. What we ARE talking about is this squad - even this season - doing better than it is.

 The fact that we've relied so heavily on one mans goals and a 17 year old loanee shows how poor a set up its been this season. Arguably last season in the absence of Dack we relied a lot on a 36 year old on a one year deal and a young loaned in defender who could pass it well from the back. Also another loanee who's now in the Prem.

 Combined those 3 probably cost round 3 million quid just for a season, that shows tow things. How much you need just to sustain yourselves in mid table at this level. And how flawed this management set ups so called journey really is.

Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, JoeH said:

Do you think the best of championship managers could see us promoted without Armstrong and Elliott?

Even Mowbray has managed to get a tune out of the team the last 2 games so, yes, definitely.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, JoeH said:

As for this comment, I don't think there's any need. It's something I think has been thought out properly, wasn't rushed and has been delivered in the best possible way. You can disagree but I just don't think this is appropriate.

Touch sensitive? 

Didn't realise you were the author but now I know it all makes sense. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Feed the Yak said:

Touch sensitive? 

Didn't realise you were the author but now I know it all makes sense. 

I just think you can maturely debate something without resorting to stuff like that. No need.

Link to post
Share on other sites

The article for me falls down on this point:

Forget the Premier League. Imagine it doesn’t exist.

I'm not going to forget it is there frankly. Even putting aside the money argument I support Blackburn Rovers and want us to compete in the top league. I don't want to pretend it isn't there because our current situation lends itself to wanting to forget it exists.

The article tells us to forget money but then in the same instance tells us to manage our expectations on the basis of finances. Our operating losses aren't unusually high in comparison to other football clubs

In fact, most of the promoted teams throughout the past 8-9 years have had quite high operating losses, even with the parachute payments some recieved.

The remainder is pretty standard. Play football to win, sign cheap sell high - it is everything we should be doing. 

I also think the author underestimates the work involved in becoming 'financially stable' and if he thinks a 6 point programme like that would automatically produce a club with a solid financial footing I think he is in for a surprise. As with any business you have to have the logistics and manpower in place to work to whatever system you want to implement.

In order to be constantly finding these hidden gems you are going to need a constant recruitment department, as opposed to the start-from-scratch nothing we have right now. That costs money. It would require a director of football type director to oversee this process, so add another 100k+ a year salary and all expenses that comes with it. There's additional costs with everything after all.

I don't doubt it's an admirable thought process, intentions in the right place, but I do think it is a naïve view of the world of business and football in particular. Within our current structure it is unthinkable to produce a club that has a system in place for long term benefit. You have to work with what you have, so the idea we should try and implement a system akin to Brentford whilst running a threadbare department and overseen by owners who don't care about anything but cheque signing then it is totally impractical to suggest a change like this would work.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, JoeH said:

I just think you can maturely debate something without resorting to stuff like that. No need.

Fair enough, you would need a big steel barrier in front of you to deal with the term "tosh". 

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

I also think the author underestimates the work involved in becoming 'financially stable' and if he thinks a 6 point programme like that would automatically produce a club with a solid financial footing I think he is in for a surprise. As with any business you have to have the logistics and manpower in place to work to whatever system you want to implement.

As the article says, this is a strategy that has to be seen through over a significant period. It’s not a quick fix and I don’t think it purports to be.

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

It would require a director of football type director to oversee this process, so add another 100k+ a year salary and all expenses that comes with it. There's additional costs with everything after all.

I don’t think good recruitment does (or at least should) cost that much money.

Link to post
Share on other sites
44 minutes ago, JoeH said:

Do you think? Fair enough. It’s probably the most common response but I just don’t know if the squad without Elliott, Nyambe, Armstrong etc... is promotion worthy with a £5m budget, no matter who the manager is

Barnsley fans probably thought the same a few months ago when they were in the bottom 3. And the three players you mentioned didn't play in the last 2 games and we haven't lost.

The manager is everything at a football club, especially in a league, as tight as the Championship. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Besides “the right manager” what’s the alternative? Current system is failing year on year. Suggestions in the article are disagreed with. So what is a better system for you?

Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Hoochie Bloochie Mama said:

Barnsley fans probably thought the same a few months ago when they were in the bottom 3. And the three players you mentioned didn't play in the last 2 games and we haven't lost.

The manager is everything at a football club, especially in a league, as tight as the Championship. 

Who would you like to see? I don’t disagree with this. I think it’s a strong majority of it for sure.

Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, JoeH said:

As the article says, this is a strategy that has to be seen through over a significant period. It’s not a quick fix and I don’t think it purports to be.

I don't think it is a strategy that encourages ambition frankly.

It is almost resigning ourselves to the fact promotion is a dream. Instead focusing on becoming a "middle ground" club that players can come and look for the next big move. It doesn't strike me as the identity of the club I fell in love with quite frankly. I don't want to aspire to finding a youngster and selling him for £10m - I want to see us playing at Old Trafford on a Saturday afternoon with a striker up front that can bag a goal out of nowhere. It's what I grew up on and it's the identity Blackburn Rovers had prior to this era of ownership.

Changing our destiny and our ambitions for the owners is accepting defeat. We are better than a club that can be used as a stepping stone. I am 27, and none of that strategy is anything like Rovers in my lifetime save Venkys era. Even when you look beyond at our history we always competed, even with the lull years that naturally occur. This strategy is almost saying let's not compete, let's just have this romantic idea of development and on the way make a few bob.

My strategy would be to not reduce our ambitions, it would be to increase that ambition, and stop all talk of accepting our natural place and become that club that overachieves again.

Even if we take your business minded approach it does not make business sense to accept existence in a league that has notoriously high operating losses when the right moves are proven to see you spend some time in a league with huge financial rewards. If Burnley, Brighton, Huddersfield and co can all spend time in that league so can we. 

 

Edited by Dreams of 1995
Link to post
Share on other sites

If we'd missed promotion from league 1 and sat around 8th place there with the owners cutting funding to that level then yes that would be a great blueprint to 'try' and follow.  It would be the only sensible one and that's when costs/wages start to get cut, training grounds get squeezed into one and land sold off.

As we are now the way forwards however unpopular it might be is to sell Armstrong and put what money is left towards reducing a bit of debt and reinvesting in the team. We still need far better management at pitch level but really it's the only way forwards now unless they upgrade things, keep the players and go for it.

To Mowbrays credit he has given us a good platform now to move on from, not downgrade and pull it to bits. If these owners want to pump 15 mill towards the losses ever season for as long as it takes then let them.  They just need to realize it's going to take more than empty promises to make real strides forwards.

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, JoeH said:

Besides “the right manager” what’s the alternative? Current system is failing year on year. Suggestions in the article are disagreed with. So what is a better system for you?

Like I said, the manager is  everything. Put the wrong bloke in charge of any 'strategy' and it will fail. And quality recruitment isn't a  given, especially now that there will be inevitable problems recruiting from Europe due to Brexit. More than ever we are going to rely on the Academy...just at the time when Waggott & Co are going to potentially feck it up. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

So basically we should accept being a midtable team, cut all expenses back in order to aim for a midtable  finish?  Might as well pack it in a supporter now if that's what we should aim for.

Aiming for Premier League football isn't just about earning a huge pay cheque (which we do need), but it's about playing against the best week in week out. Whether we get there or not is up for debate, but the thought of watching us deliberately try and finish midtable in this division is nauseating 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.