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10 minutes ago, JoeH said:

Not guess work, heard it from someone in recruitment at another Champ club. Not saying anyone has to trust it as fact, just what I've been told. Don't agree with it, I think we'd be better off promoting a youth player to play 2nd fiddle, or finding a free/loan player.

Had a feeling he might have got another offer from us. 

We've got that other lad joining and I suspect Bell doesn't rock the boat too much here, so won't kick off much about being back up.

Or the new lad can come in and learn how to play the position from Bell 🙈

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14 minutes ago, JoeH said:

Nyambe wants out, and I don't think anyone would blame him. Rovers see more value in a Josh King esque tribunal situation than extending for 12-months and trying to get value for him on the market from a fairly weak position. Of the teams who want him, Stoke is the preferred location - perhaps they'll offer a better wage/guaranteed starting spot?

No I dont blame him in that he has been treat poorly, and I also wouldnt be surprised if he went somewhere like Stoke in that I dont think he is one of the best full backs in the league, mid table Championship is his level which shows how poor it is that we cannot keep him. Where has that he wants to go to Stoke come from?

I dont feel comfortable with us replacing him with Rankin Costello either, assuming he signs a new deal. Hes not a particularly comfortable full back and he spends most of his time injured to the point where I do wonder if a new deal for him benefits us. No mention of an automatic extension in the news article announcing his last contract either, but I cant see anyone being seriously interested should he try to play the field.

13 minutes ago, JoeH said:

A deal has been tabled to him. Not a clue on the terms. Hopefully a one year. Who knows though, maybe he'll reject it in seeking some football at a lower level where he'll play?

Would another teams recruitment team know that he has been offered one? There isnt seemingly a youth left back ready and waiting, but finding a free agent left back who is better than Bell is not difficult. I dont recall seeing as poor a left back at this level in the last 3 years, he is dog shit. 

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1 minute ago, roversfan99 said:

Would another teams recruitment team know that he has been offered one?

Most likely. Perhaps they looked at bringing him in and discovered it that way?

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Just now, roversfan99 said:

If they looked at signing Amarii Bell, then I suspect that they need a change of job.

Clubs will be looking at all the out of contract players to see whats what, maybe they didn't want to sign him, I'm just guessing as to how they'd know. For the record, they're not exactly Watford, so it's possible.

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30 minutes ago, JoeH said:

Nyambe wants out, and I don't think anyone would blame him. Rovers see more value in a Josh King esque tribunal situation than extending for 12-months and trying to get value for him on the market from a fairly weak position. Of the teams who want him, Stoke is the preferred location - perhaps they'll offer a better wage/guaranteed starting spot?

Genuine question and forgive my lack of knowledge in this area, but if we don't trigger his option can we expect anything from a tribunal?? Or do we just need to make him another offer(which inevitably he will decline?). 

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3 minutes ago, Lucimo said:

Genuine question and forgive my lack of knowledge in this area, but if we don't trigger his option can we expect anything from a tribunal?? Or do we just need to make him another offer(which inevitably he will decline?). 

Don't think the option comes into it, if he leaves on a free before he's 24 (which isn't until December) then it'll go to tribunal. Tribunal is more about the EPPP rules. Probably around £1.75m plus a 20% sell on clause come the end of it, more than likely settled outside of court between the two clubs though.

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3 minutes ago, JoeH said:

Don't think the option comes into it, if he leaves on a free before he's 24 (which isn't until December) then it'll go to tribunal. Tribunal is more about the EPPP rules. Probably around £1.75m plus a 20% sell on clause come the end of it, more than likely settled outside of court between the two clubs though.

Im almost certain that you have to offer a player a contract of a wage at least equal to their current wage to invoke a tribunal fee. Maybe I am mistaken or maybe thats changed. Also, the fact that we have an extension that we chose not to take out presumably massively devalues any fee that we would get anyway.

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8 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Im almost certain that you have to offer a player a contract of a wage at least equal to their current wage to invoke a tribunal fee. Maybe I am mistaken or maybe thats changed. Also, the fact that we have an extension that we chose not to take out presumably massively devalues any fee that we would get anyway.

I don't think the option on Nyambe is as straightforward as reported. Anyway I'm just going off what I've heard. Don't know anything more.

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37 minutes ago, davulsukur said:

Or the new lad can come in and learn how to play the position from Bell 🙈

What's worrying me is that we all think the crewe lad is a shoe in and the answer to our problems...Bell was the next best thing at left back once.....

Plus imagine that Pickering lad. Signed for us when we were off the back of a super start to the season....bet he can't wait to get here 🙃😖

Edited by Sparks Rover
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Unpopular opinion, but I don't really mind if Bell signs a very cheap one year deal.

We need a backup LB, and whilst one or two u23s may have promise there, we can't rely on them yet as they're untested.

Yes we can find a better free agent I expect, though we had that task last summer and ended up with Douglas on loan. He isn't much better, and has probably been worse in the liability stakes at times than Bell. It's also a case of can we find one as cheaply, and more importantly for me, the fact we have a TON of recruiting to get sorted this summer and backup LB isn't high on the priority list. Getting it boxed off early frees up resources.

Yes, he is crap, before anyone tells me. He has been a bit better this season for me though, albeit still naff. Just with our situation I'm fine if we sign him on short term cheaply whilst we explore other options.

I'm also fine if he leaves.

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9 minutes ago, bluebruce said:

Unpopular opinion, but I don't really mind if Bell signs a very cheap one year deal.

We need a backup LB, and whilst one or two u23s may have promise there, we can't rely on them yet as they're untested.

Yes we can find a better free agent I expect, though we had that task last summer and ended up with Douglas on loan. He isn't much better, and has probably been worse in the liability stakes at times than Bell. It's also a case of can we find one as cheaply, and more importantly for me, the fact we have a TON of recruiting to get sorted this summer and backup LB isn't high on the priority list. Getting it boxed off early frees up resources.

Yes, he is crap, before anyone tells me. He has been a bit better this season for me though, albeit still naff. Just with our situation I'm fine if we sign him on short term cheaply whilst we explore other options.

I'm also fine if he leaves.

I agree with you as well. I don't rate Bell, but it makes sense to have a cheap backup to Pickering, who we're all expecting to walk in as our no.1 left back. It would cost money we can't afford to spend to strengthen at back up left back if we let him go.

Bit gutted we didn't bring Cunningham back, instead of signing Douglas. Bit of hindsight there in terms of how Douglas has panned out but I did want Cunningham back at the time.

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25 minutes ago, bluebruce said:

Unpopular opinion, but I don't really mind if Bell signs a very cheap one year deal.

We need a backup LB, and whilst one or two u23s may have promise there, we can't rely on them yet as they're untested.

Yes we can find a better free agent I expect, though we had that task last summer and ended up with Douglas on loan. He isn't much better, and has probably been worse in the liability stakes at times than Bell. It's also a case of can we find one as cheaply, and more importantly for me, the fact we have a TON of recruiting to get sorted this summer and backup LB isn't high on the priority list. Getting it boxed off early frees up resources.

Yes, he is crap, before anyone tells me. He has been a bit better this season for me though, albeit still naff. Just with our situation I'm fine if we sign him on short term cheaply whilst we explore other options.

I'm also fine if he leaves.

 

10 minutes ago, RoverKyle said:

I agree with you as well. I don't rate Bell, but it makes sense to have a cheap backup to Pickering, who we're all expecting to walk in as our no.1 left back. It would cost money we can't afford to spend to strengthen at back up left back if we let him go.

Bit gutted we didn't bring Cunningham back, instead of signing Douglas. Bit of hindsight there in terms of how Douglas has panned out but I did want Cunningham back at the time.

I just cant grasp why anyone would want to keep a player described as "crap," "naff" and someone who you "don't rate" under any circumstances. There is no use having a back up left back who isnt up to coming in and performing the role with competence when needed.

I dont get the argument that it is easier to do so either, that is no reason to sign him back up. It doesnt have to be the first priority, I suppose the financial argument I get a bit more, but Bell is such a low bar that even with a fairly low wage (assumed to his benefit) that we can get a less incompetent left back to compete with Pickering, just seems like such a lazy reason, especially to commit so early.

Also, Pickering is new, a young kid from League 1, if he struggles, then we have no serious alternative.

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1 hour ago, JoeH said:

Nyambe wants out, and I don't think anyone would blame him. Rovers see more value in a Josh King esque tribunal situation than extending for 12-months and trying to get value for him on the market from a fairly weak position. Of the teams who want him, Stoke is the preferred location - perhaps they'll offer a better wage/guaranteed starting spot?

Depressing news after we’ve watched him develop into a respectable, promising right back.

If we kept Nyambe for next season, performed well in the league and got promoted then we’d have a very strong bargaining position. I’m not saying that’s going to happen by any means but if the decision above is made and he’s off on a free then there is no ambition at this club, clearly there is no appetite or expectation of success next season. 
 

We didn’t make much on Josh King either.

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25 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

 

I just cant grasp why anyone would want to keep a player described as "crap," "naff" and someone who you "don't rate" under any circumstances. There is no use having a back up left back who isnt up to coming in and performing the role with competence when needed.

I dont get the argument that it is easier to do so either, that is no reason to sign him back up. It doesnt have to be the first priority, I suppose the financial argument I get a bit more, but Bell is such a low bar that even with a fairly low wage (assumed to his benefit) that we can get a less incompetent left back to compete with Pickering, just seems like such a lazy reason, especially to commit so early.

Also, Pickering is new, a young kid from League 1, if he struggles, then we have no serious alternative.

Because we're taking about a player in terms of his capabilities as a back up, rather than as a regular starter. He's shown on plenty of occasions that he can fill in OK, but he's not someone you could rely on to be a regular starter. With Pickering coming in, you would expect his time to be limited, providing Pickering is as good as people say he is/could be. 

Signing Bell on again as a back up would need to be short term (i.e. 12 months) for it to even be considered an option for me. Just to tie us over whilst we see how Pickering gets on. Resource wise the cost of recruiting a new back up left back would outweigh the need to get a replacement in. Just my opinion of course. 

It's key to remember that Douglas was being tipped as this leading Championship left back when we signed him and he's performed no better than Bell has. That's a lot of money spent for us just to tread water (if not regress) at the left back position. 

Edited by RoverKyle
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2 hours ago, JoeH said:

These arent my opinions per se, more what I think will happen. I know for fact that Amari'i Bell has sadly been offered a new deal. Rovers plan on Nyambe is to let him go on a free as they'll get a better deal at the EPPP Tribunal than they would if they extended by 12-months and sold for a fee. Stoke is his preferred destination.

That's been the plan with Nyambie for over 12 months imo i called it ages ago.

However its come about or whoever is to blame it's another shambles. From our lots point of view though they'll get a few million and nice sell on clause probably. Cheaper than giving him a bumper new deal and Mowbray removes another obstacle he doesn't want with minimum fuss.

Then he'll get to waste the proceeeds on another dolloper to rotate with JRC according to opposition.

Great.

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27 minutes ago, RoverKyle said:

Because we're taking about a player in terms of his capabilities as a back up, rather than as a regular starter. He's shown on plenty of occasions that he can fill in OK, but he's not someone you could rely on to be a regular starter. With Pickering coming in, you would expect his time to be limited, providing Pickering is as good as people say he is/could be. 

Signing Bell on again as a back up would need to be short term (i.e. 12 months) for it to even be considered an option for me. Just to tie us over whilst we see how Pickering gets on. Resource wise the cost of recruiting a new back up left back would outweigh the need to get a replacement in. Just my opinion of course. 

It's key to remember that Douglas was being tipped as this leading Championship left back when we signed him and he's performed no better than Bell has. That's a lot of money spent for us just to tread water (if not regress) at the left back position. 

Would disagree on both of these points. Bell always looks out of his depth (and has done over long enough of a period to have more than been given the benefit of the doubt) and Douglas has been better whilst himself not being particularly impressive.

I just think its very dangerous to get into a habit which the club very much has of signing players who arent very good just to avoid having to search for a replacement. 

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2 hours ago, JoeH said:

A deal has been tabled to him. Not a clue on the terms. Hopefully a one year. Who knows though, maybe he'll reject it in seeking some football at a lower level where he'll play?

Christ, what a waste.

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36 minutes ago, Hoochie Bloochie Mama said:

He’s the lad I mentioned a month or two back. I like him a lot but like Pickering it’s a big step up. There’s potential to improve him though, more so than what I saw in that Brererton video.

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1 hour ago, roversfan99 said:

 

I just cant grasp why anyone would want to keep a player described as "crap," "naff" and someone who you "don't rate" under any circumstances. There is no use having a back up left back who isnt up to coming in and performing the role with competence when needed.

I dont get the argument that it is easier to do so either, that is no reason to sign him back up. It doesnt have to be the first priority, I suppose the financial argument I get a bit more, but Bell is such a low bar that even with a fairly low wage (assumed to his benefit) that we can get a less incompetent left back to compete with Pickering, just seems like such a lazy reason, especially to commit so early.

Also, Pickering is new, a young kid from League 1, if he struggles, then we have no serious alternative.

I think we were both pretty clear tbh so I'm not sure what you don't grasp and I'm not going to argue the point with you. I knew you'd be quoting me disagreeing as I've already seen your views on him.

All I'll say is this. When I say he is crap, I'm basically saying he is a bit sub-par for average Championship level (keep in mind my definition of this is probably different to yours), but I expect my backup LB to be a bit sub-par. He is a backup. Someone guaranteed (not that you can be) to be better than that will command I'd expect double his wage or more. Maybe a fee too. Anyway this season I feel he has been a bit better, and not the worst for a few games if someone has a light injury. I wouldn't have kept the Bell of last year, he was truly woeful, and I'd prefer someone a little bit better as the backup. I'm just saying that from an overall resources perspective with how I read our situation, my assessment is offer him a very cheap one year deal, with an ultimatum to sign it soon so we can plan accordingly. Despite what you say, of course it's easier to do. No need to scout a few players, draw plans, discuss, check the budget, sound out an agent, make a bid, blah blah. Besides, whilst we might get someone better we also might get someone worse. People always like to say at this point 'well they can't be any worse'. Yes, yes they can. People like to exaggerate. We all thought Douglas was going to be a huge improvement, had plenty of pedigree, yet it took half a season for him to be even a slight improvement. Bell himself cost a few hundred grand and was meant to be the next good thing.

Anyway I've said more than I intended to but I really don't want to get into back and forth with you about. You think he's worse than I do, I'd take him for one more year primarily because of how much work we need to get through this summer and how sparse our budget will be, and you wouldn't. Not much point us having a debate.

Yes ideally you get a better backup, but we aren't in anything close to an ideal situation. I'm interested in what the u23s might have to offer, testing them with a more experienced player to fill in if it's an absolute disaster works fine for me for now considering. JRC has also proved adequate at LB in a pinch a couple of times if Bell reverts to full disaster mode. Crap was probably a bit harsher than I truly assess him from this season alone. I think 'meh' might be a better assessment. I always fear he has huge blunders in him but I think past perception based on his abysmal showings last season, and him not setting the world alight this year means some people still categorise him as worse than he has been this season.

Game of opinions. You rate the whole squad as worse than I do too, so be it.

Edited by bluebruce
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49 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

He’s the lad I mentioned a month or two back. I like him a lot but like Pickering it’s a big step up. There’s potential to improve him though, more so than what I saw in that Brererton video.

More potential to improve him? He is 23, Brereton is 21.

His goals record in League One, even if it transferred exactly to the Championship, is nearly half of Armstrong's total. I haven't seen the lad so not saying you're wrong, but the basic stats of it don't wow me much.

Lad at work was telling me about Yates, the other league one striker we are linked with at Blackpool. More goals, and he says he is quick, good ball skills and a hard worker. Says what he brings to the team in general is as important as his goals. I had a look at his youtube clips last night and whilst I can't speak to the last part I'd agree with the rest.

Probably not quite as fast as Arma, but very tidy with the ball. A year older than the Rotherham lad, but the main issue is the lad at work reckons 4 million is fair. Fans always overprice their players though, but that would be a risk for a 24 year old who has only just proven himself in a league below ours. Dack was one of the best in that league and he was less than a quarter of that.

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So JRC and A N Other rotating at right back,  Bell again and now Pickering rotating at left back.

The stuff of Tombola Tony's dreams this.

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Can't believe anyone doesn't think Nyambe is top class.

We're going to lose him for peanuts and replace him with JRC who isn't a RB and who is terrible defensively.

So of our former 5 "crown jewels"

Nyambe - been messed about by Mowbray no end hence we're losing him for next to nothing. Will be a real asset wherever he goes.

Lenihan - has regressed no end under Mowbray. Looks ordinary at best now.

Travis - has regressed under Mowbray, nowhere near as dynamic as when he first burst into the team. More recently unimpressive since return from injury. Lacking sharpness, out of form and out of favour

Dack - has suffered 2 terrible injuries. Didn't look to be back at it after the first one anyway.

Armstrong - white hot in the first half of the season but poor since the turn of the year. Was his earlier form a flash in the pan? Either way, surely off in summer, will we get what we want for him in his current form?

Depressing stuff.

And apart from Dack there's one common denominator running through them all - Tony Fecking Mowbray.

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