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Summer transfer window 2021.


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If as it's looking like all these departures of playing staff and other staff are down to urgent cost cutting. And the sale of a full training site is being pushed then these seem like steps to avoid admin.

Not much point going through all that if you are going to let it go bust before long. Plus any player worth anything would be being flogged quickly now.

I did wonder if there;d been some external borrowing to get through covid and now there;s a panic to pay that back.  I don't think Vs way of funding covers that kind of thing, certainly not in one big lump.

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8 minutes ago, tomphil said:

I did wonder if there;d been some external borrowing to get through covid 

They pump money in directly from the group. They don't get a loan to do that, their overall group performance over the last 18 months has actually been phenomenal,  they make vaccines for fucks sake.

The losses will be moved across the group by a good accountant and off set against profit somewhere else.  Its not a problem for them to bung us 5m here and there....they are billionaires.  If we get up I bet they'd spend, but stupidly.

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4 minutes ago, Sparks Rover said:

They pump money in directly from the group. They don't get a loan to do that, their overall group performance over the last 18 months has actually been phenomenal,  they make vaccines for fucks sake.

The losses will be moved across the group by a good accountant and off set against profit somewhere else.  Its not a problem for them to bung us 5m here and there....they are billionaires.  If we get up I bet they'd spend, but stupidly.

I get that and agree but i'm on about borrowings this end just cast your mind back a few years.

Last time there was issues Rovers took out some short term high interest loans when the taps from India were turned off. I believe the sudden departure of Tom Cairney was to cover some of that.

Not beyond the realms of possibility they've had to take it upon themselves at this end to do similar. 

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4 minutes ago, tomphil said:

I get that and agree but i'm on about borrowings this end just cast your mind back a few years.

Last time there was issues Rovers took out some short term high interest loans when the taps from India were turned off. I believe the sudden departure of Tom Cairney was to cover some of that.

Not beyond the realms of possibility they've had to take it upon themselves at this end to do similar. 

As Sparks says different times and different outcome. I’m not saying they’ll pump millions in, but I’m sure they’ll not be liquidating their assets.

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8 minutes ago, tomphil said:

I get that and agree but i'm on about borrowings this end just cast your mind back a few years.

Last time there was issues Rovers took out some short term high interest loans when the taps from India were turned off. I believe the sudden departure of Tom Cairney was to cover some of that.

Not beyond the realms of possibility they've had to take it upon themselves at this end to do similar. 

Money is cheap to borrow at the moment and their credit rating will be fantastic,  why would they borrow money at a high rate? Doesn't make sense.

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6 minutes ago, Sparks Rover said:

Money is cheap to borrow at the moment and their credit rating will be fantastic,  why would they borrow money at a high rate? Doesn't make sense.

What's they ?

I said THE CLUB and it had to be done once before it was well documented. Despite what you seem to think there will be a limit to how much they can tip up at once besides FFP probably throws a spanner in.

Emergency borrowings aren't cheap but we'll never know until the next accounts. It might not make sense to you but the fact is it has happened before and might have had to again. Besides just look at the rates they pay the BOI for the overdraft.

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3 minutes ago, tomphil said:

What's they ?

 

As it stands, they, the owners put in 20m per season. I'm unaware of further borrowing apart from obvious working short term finance like purchases of equipment perhaps, to ease cash flow etc etc ......but in terms of real funding I'm not sure we will be borrowing to pay wages etc....

Which years accounts show all this borrowing? And how do you know what the rates were?

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7 minutes ago, tomphil said:

What's they ?

I said THE CLUB and it had to be done once before it was well documented. Despite what you seem to think there will be a limit to how much they can tip up at once besides FFP probably throws a spanner in.

Emergency borrowings aren't cheap but we'll never know until the next accounts. It might not make sense to you but the fact is it has happened before and might have had to again. Besides just look at the rates they pay the BOI for the overdraft.

Anybody who is experienced in International finance is well aware that interest rates are determined by the groups ability to service the debt, and yes I work in finance for an Indian multinational company.

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2 minutes ago, Sparks Rover said:

As it stands, they, the owners put in 20m per season. I'm unaware of further borrowing apart from obvious working short term finance like purchases of equipment perhaps, to ease cash flow etc etc ......but in terms of real funding I'm not sure we will be borrowing to pay wages etc....

Which years accounts show all this borrowing? And how do you know what the rates were?

It was around the last period when we ended up in embargo. They only put in a few million quid not the usual 10/20 million. It came after they had to keep stumping up whopping amounts to sort the drop from the Prem out and we were clearly being robbed blind.

How much of it was down to FFP i don't know but the taps got turned off for a spell. Where you not around here then ? Rovers this end had to sort similar short term borrowings. The sale of players then began and they didn't put significant money in again until after relegation i don't think.

Slightly different circumstances now of course because of covid so maybe it's not the case. Just another possible theory though for such a seeming panic for money after they've stuck in whopping amounts already recently.

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3 minutes ago, JohnGo said:

Anybody who is experienced in International finance is well aware that interest rates are determined by the groups ability to service the debt, and yes I work in finance for an Indian multinational company.

Just read the full conversation i'm not talking about international borrowing. I'm on about short term borrowing at this end by the club as has happened once before.

All hypothetical anyway as we pick through why there is a sudden need to slash costs and sell land.

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25 minutes ago, tomphil said:

Just read the full conversation i'm not talking about international borrowing. I'm on about short term borrowing at this end by the club as has happened once before.

All hypothetical anyway as we pick through why there is a sudden need to slash costs and sell land.

Short term covered by group guarantees, they tend to be at marginal rates above commercial borrowings. Plus the additional interest can be “lost” in group finance charges.

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7 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

The squad is crying out for experience, when we hit a tough run I really do worry.

Yes we one or 2 experience players bit yet again it will come down to wages and length of contract. 

 

7 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

I feel like you are being purposely obtuse about my Pickering comments. My point is that I don't understand how we can go from signing players for above 500k to not being able to sign a couple of freebies within 6 months, how the landscape can change so much

Haven't we been over this enough? Plus Phili has explained aswell. What money do you want? 

 

6 hours ago, MarkBRFC said:

I think there's a group of decent young lads to get behind next season, some who could go on to be real players.

I agree. Players like JRC, Brereton, Dolan, Buckley, etc. 

Think we have enough good young talent players to play some good football and win games

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4 hours ago, davulsukur said:

Why are we losing so many backroom staff?

Barr got a promotion to be number 2 at Salford. 

Chris Rush walk away for family reasons. 

Simon Cooper move to Stoke is a strange one but better wages there. 

2 hours ago, Mercer said:

Administration by Christmas, Neil in as manager - not as crazy as some like @chaddyroversmay think.

You been predicting administration for years now and everytime you been wrong. 

You been saying Alex Neil was coming here 7 months now but still Mowbray is here. Why not just admit you got it wrong?

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It seems like only, ummm, 3-4 weeks ago that everyone was hyperventilating about wages being 180% of turnover and way above clubs around us. So it’s not really surprising that headcount is now nosediving; FFP projections must’ve had that ratio coming down substantially to be acceptable/believable. It doesn’t look like contracts are being terminated, and hence having to be paid off, which perhaps explains why the Coventrio are still here.

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7 hours ago, tomphil said:

Just read the full conversation i'm not talking about international borrowing. I'm on about short term borrowing at this end by the club as has happened once before.

All hypothetical anyway as we pick through why there is a sudden need to slash costs and sell land.

I remember something coming out at a Supporter Consultation Meeting when it was described as something akin to pay day loans. I think it was the meeting when Coar was called out by some fans.

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6 hours ago, Exiled in Toronto said:

It seems like only, ummm, 3-4 weeks ago that everyone was hyperventilating about wages being 180% of turnover and way above clubs around us. So it’s not really surprising that headcount is now nosediving; FFP projections must’ve had that ratio coming down substantially to be acceptable/believable. It doesn’t look like contracts are being terminated, and hence having to be paid off, which perhaps explains why the Coventrio are still here.

I'm not having it that these departures are anything to do with FFP and attempts to cut the wage bill to achieve compliance.

First off costs such as Billy Barr and Simon Cooper are exempt from these calculations as academy costs, in the same way maintenance and ground staff are. We could employ 100 ground staff and their costs would not count towards FFP.

Secondly whatever we've saved by these people leaving will be utterly minimal in addressing losses it is a pointless exercise.

Thirdly there's no evidence these people have been pushed out or made redundant. All have got roles lined up elsewhere which suggests they have been off trying to move away themselves.

No, this is plain old Venky cost cutting, once again conveniently covered with the excuse of FFP. I expected this when there was all the talk of 'embargo' back in June.

Plant it in people's minds that the cause of our issues isn't Venkys but those nasty rules.

Looks like the staff at the club can't wait to get out of here including jumping ship to lower league clubs. This gives an indication as to morale around the place and the feeling as to how things are going to go. 

I never cease to be amazed by Chaddy who thinks these departures are normal, routine, nothing to be concerned about. Head in sand.

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If it's more of a restructure than penny pinching then that's better news.

Still rather odd though that something that seemed to be working ok needs so much revamp. And so many suddenly see greener grass elsewhere.

Meanwhile at the top end nothing changes and the worry is this is Swaggot & Mowbray yet again strengthening their vice like grip.

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1 hour ago, arbitro said:

I remember something coming out at a Supporter Consultation Meeting when it was described as something akin to pay day loans. I think it was the meeting when Coar was called out by some fans.

Yes it was all there the guys on here who pick through the accounts highlighted it. Also i think companies house would show the lower share issues than normal for that period. Then the 2 years or so we made no cash buys....

Never a suggestion of anything untoward it was just Bolton etc had taken a similar path and that flashed warning lights. All the player sales and relegation seemed to reset the finances here a bit though.

Worry now is we might have to go through it all again and that would set signs of a 4 year pattern. That could repeat every FFP cycle unless they get some staff who actually get us competing higher up.

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1 hour ago, JHRover said:

I never cease to be amazed by Chaddy who thinks these departures are normal, routine, nothing to be concerned about. Head in sand.

And it's never amazed myself how quick you jump to a conspiracy theory about everything.

Barr left for promotion job wise. His Rovers salary was near 1.5k a week here. 

Chris Rush left for family reasons

I'm.sure Simon Copper will lay out his reasons for leaving. 

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6 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

And it's never amazed myself how quick you jump to a conspiracy theory about everything.

Barr left for promotion job wise. His Rovers salary was near 1.5k a week here. 

Chris Rush left for family reasons

I'm.sure Simon Copper will lay out his reasons for leaving. 

Simon Cooper said on twitter he's also moved for family reasons 

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