Summer transfer window 2021.

[rovers11]

Great to see Wharton sign a new deal. I wasn't convinced about him until last season when he looked like a class act. A good old fashioned centre half who will get in the way of everything. Big fan. 

[Oldgregg86]

Rated Scott for a long time. He will be a decent player for us if he can stay fit and given a proper opportunity . Should have far more starts for rovers than he currently does 

[rigger]

1 hour ago, chaddyrovers said:

I don't see Rothwell and Chapman being here next season. Chapman's contract isn't going to be extend and Rothwell will be sold whilst we can get some money for him. 

I don't see us playing 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1 formations any more complicated than 4-4-2 which most of this squad haven't played in before under Mowbray. 

I would say if Armstrong is staying then we need transfer wise a back up left back, Centre back, 2 centre midfielders, 1 winger and possible a striker. 

I have gone with players that are here now. If you want to surmise on players leaving, then so be it. The players may not have played 4-4-2 under Mowbray, but I would bet that most of them have played that system for their previous careers. 4-4-2 is far more simple because every player bar the keeper is in a two man partnership. That partnership knows exactly who should be doing what. If there is a mistake someone is accountable. This does not make the system infallible, but it usually cuts out silly mistakes. You state that you think we are going to need 6 signings. I don't think we will have the money to make that many good signings. We may have to make the best of what we already have.  

[Ulrich]

24 minutes ago, Oldgregg86 said:

Rated Scott for a long time. He will be a decent player for us if he can stay fit and given a proper opportunity . Should have far more starts for rovers than he currently does 

100% provided his Achilles tendon makes a full recovery, if it doesn't his mobility in his foot will cause him serious issues. Fingers crossed as like yourself I think he could grow into a good player for us.

[chaddyrovers]

2 hours ago, Herbie6590 said:

A lot of (unpaid) work has gone into this, well worth a read IMO.

https://www.yumpu.com/en/document/read/65654151/blackburn-rovers-season-analysis-recruitment-2021

 

This is great and interesting report and what type of players and possible names we could or should be looking at this summer. It contains great in depth detail and very much what our recruitment team will be produced for head of recruitment and Mowbray. 

 

 

[Blue blood]

1 hour ago, JohnGo said:

It would enable Scott Wharton time to get up to speed and not be rushed back plus Ayala only needs to look at a ball and he’s injured. If we can find another good centre back this window great if not Harwood Bellis gives them another 12 months to sort out the problem by which time Carter if he is loaned out to a Championship side would be ready to step in.

That is the exact thinking which makes a loan a problem. It's stuffed full of hypothetical. Will Carter make it at this level - far from a given. How long will Warton's recovery take, and will he come back the same player, a player who'd looked promising/good for only a handful of games. (I'm more optimistic on the latter than the former as a side point btw). 

Why not actually fix the sodding problem? Why  hope it goes away and gamble all on a couple of youngsters fixing it, when as we have seen this is far from guaranteed? Why not add a bit of consistency and longevity in there and who knows maybe if they perform well a saleable asset? 

Not trying to have a go but it's this sort of deferral, blind optimism and no concrete plans to address things that causes us no end of problems. 

And I've not even got into talking about possibly needing a more tough as nails or experienced centre half...

[chaddyrovers]

1 hour ago, rigger said:

I have gone with players that are here now. If you want to surmise on players leaving, then so be it. The players may not have played 4-4-2 under Mowbray, but I would bet that most of them have played that system for their previous careers. 4-4-2 is far more simple because every player bar the keeper is in a two man partnership. That partnership knows exactly who should be doing what. If there is a mistake someone is accountable. This does not make the system infallible, but it usually cuts out silly mistakes. You state that you think we are going to need 6 signings. I don't think we will have the money to make that many good signings. We may have to make the best of what we already have.  

The players thats are here are used to playing 4-2-3-1 or 4-3-3 system here under Mowbray. How many teams over the years have played 4-4-2 with Success? Not many of them. 

on the 6 signings thats I think we need. These can been make mostly on free transfers or loan with the odd cash signings.

back up left back - Connor Ogilvie on a free

Centre back -  Taylor Harwood-Bellis back on loan

Defensive Midfielder - Marko Jevtovic- free. Suggested by Andy Watson in his recruitment document he has produced. 

Centre midfielder - Kiernan Dewsbury-Hall from Leicester. 1.5 million

Winger-  Junior Hoilett. on a free and can play. Reach from Sheffield United. Possible Kirk from Crewe who Joe Harvey is a fan off. Don't think Curtis is a worthwhile signing for me. 

Possible a striker - Maybe Delap from City or Parrott from Spurs on loan. tho I not against using McBride instead of bringing one of those above in

I would pay for Dewsbury-Hall transfer by selling Joe Rothwell for a similar price. If we lost Adam Armstrong then I would move for Cauley Woodrow who I think we could get for 5 million pounds. Other people seems to think Yates is a good bet to replace Armstrong. I'm not seen Yates live but will be watching the playoff final with him in aswell as Simms who is on loan from Everton at Blackpool. 

So the squad would look like this for the coming season

GK - Kaminski, Pears, Eastham, Stergiakis

RB - Nyambe, Pike

CB - Lenihan, Ayala, Wharton, Carter, Harwood-Bellis

LB - Pickering, Ogilvie

CM - Travis, Buckley, Davenport, Johnson, Dewsbury-Hall, Jevtovic

RW - Rankin-Costello, Dolan

LW - Brereton, Holliett/Reach.Kirk

CF - Armstrong, Gallagher, McBride

Edited May 24, 2021 by chaddyrovers
added more detail to my post

[Angry_Pirate]

2 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Winger-  Junior Hoilett. on a free and can play.

Wonder how this would go down. The 2011 contract offer is probably still on his desk at home somewhere.

Lots of negatives about him leaving, but you have to factor in the Kean/Anderson/Venkys/Relagation aspect of the 18 month cluster fuck that was occurring as he left (for the Premiership). Would you have stayed???

Can he actually still play though? 

[chaddyrovers]

7 minutes ago, Angry_Pirate said:

Wonder how this would go down. The 2011 contract offer is probably still on his desk at home somewhere.

Lots of negatives about him leaving, but you have to factor in the Kean/Anderson/Venkys/Relagation aspect of the 18 month cluster fuck that was occurring as he left (for the Premiership). Would you have stayed???

Can he actually still play though? 

Only 30 or 31 years old. He is option on free but there is other options like Reach or Kirk for example. Everyone has their opinion who we will suggested. 

[rigger]

14 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

The players thats are here are used to playing 4-2-3-1 or 4-3-3 system here under Mowbray. How many teams over the years have played 4-4-2 with Success? Not many of them. 

on the 6 signings thats I think we need. These can been make mostly on free transfers or loan with the odd cash signings.

back up left back - Connor Ogilvie on a free

Centre back -  Taylor Harwood-Bellis back on loan

Defensive Midfielder - Marko Jevtovic- free. Suggested by Andy Watson in his recruitment document he has produced. 

Centre midfielder - Kiernan Dewsbury-Hall from Leicester. 1.5 million

Winger-  Junior Hoilett. on a free and can play. Reach from Sheffield United. 

Possible a striker - Mayeb Delap from City or Parrott from Spurs on loan. 

The point about systems I am trying to get over is that whilst players under Mowbray have played his systems, that is only for a couple of seasons. I would bet that most of them since they where at infant school have played 4-4-2. 

[chaddyrovers]

2 minutes ago, rigger said:

The point about systems I am trying to get over is that whilst players under Mowbray have played his systems, that is only for a couple of seasons. I would bet that most of them since they where at infant school have played 4-4-2. 

infant schools is very different to professional football tho. 

How many Championship teams play 4-4-2 and looking at the formation of teams that get promoted from this league very few play 4-4-2 these days. 

Not sure our current players are suited to simple 4-4-2 formation and more suited 4-2-3-1 formation or 4-3-3. If we still had a Danny Graham who could play a target man role with Dack or Armstrong as a partner with Harrison Reed and Lewis Travis in centre midfield then I would be more inclined to play a simple 4-4-2. But this come back to our recruitment since getting promoted from league that Mowbray transfer signings and not seemingly have proper plan to fit signings into the formation he wanted to play. 

[K-Hod]

Not saying the fella hasn’t put some graft into that report, but at the very beginning, he admits that we have regressed with our league position. 
Could probably have finished it there tbh....

[rigger]

2 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

infant schools is very different to professional football tho. 

How many Championship teams play 4-4-2 and looking at the formation of teams that get promoted from this league very few play 4-4-2 these days. 

Not sure our current players are suited to simple 4-4-2 formation and more suited 4-2-3-1 formation or 4-3-3. If we still had a Danny Graham who could play a target man role with Dack or Armstrong as a partner with Harrison Reed and Lewis Travis in centre midfield then I would be more inclined to play a simple 4-4-2. But this come back to our recruitment since getting promoted from league that Mowbray transfer signings and not seemingly have proper plan to fit signings into the formation he wanted to play. 

The game is still the same. The difference is the standard of the players

[chaddyrovers]

1 minute ago, rigger said:

The game is still the same. The difference is the standard of the players

Our squad isn't suited to playing a simple 4-4-2. in our first season back in the championship we suited it more than now

If you look at the teams who have promoted this season or make the playoff final they have mainly played 4-2-3-1 or 4-3-3 or 3-4-3. 

Brentford and Swansea have switch formations between 3-4-3 or 4-3-3 formation. Steve Cooper ditched his 3 at the back system which he has used for most of the season and move back to 4-3-3 formation he used at the start of the previous season. 

[Stuart]

Let’s hope he can stay fit and get a regular starting berth. Being a “young kid”, he’ll be behind Ayala - at least for 10 minutes or so.

Just need to sign a manager who knows how to organise a defence now.

[JohnGo]

1 hour ago, Blue blood said:

That is the exact thinking which makes a loan a problem. It's stuffed full of hypothetical. Will Carter make it at this level - far from a given. How long will Warton's recovery take, and will he come back the same player, a player who'd looked promising/good for only a handful of games. (I'm more optimistic on the latter than the former as a side point btw). 

Why not actually fix the sodding problem? Why  hope it goes away and gamble all on a couple of youngsters fixing it, when as we have seen this is far from guaranteed? Why not add a bit of consistency and longevity in there and who knows maybe if they perform well a saleable asset? 

Not trying to have a go but it's this sort of deferral, blind optimism and no concrete plans to address things that causes us no end of problems. 

And I've not even got into talking about possibly needing a more tough as nails or experienced centre half...

Do we have the budget for a hard as nails center half? We haven’t got a pot to piss in. The venkeys won’t spunk up the cash for a proven center half. Are you more happy to gamble on someone not proven in the Championship. Sounds to me you don’t have a viable alternative.

[chaddyrovers]

8 minutes ago, JohnGo said:

Do we have the budget for a hard as nails centre half? 

Who are these players and do we play that way under Mowbray? 

[JohnGo]

Just now, chaddyrovers said:

Who are these players and do we play that way under Mowbray? 

Please go back over the thread. I didn’t say we did. I was responding to the quote. You skim over the thread without taking in what is written.

[chaddyrovers]

18 minutes ago, JohnGo said:

Please go back over the thread. I didn’t say we did. I was responding to the quote. You skim over the thread without taking in what is written.

I read everything. Its Mowbray who wouldnt buy a centre half. We had the money in the first season or second season when we promoted whether its Konsa who was Charlton at the time or Egan at Brentford or Cooper at Millwall. Instead when for Rodwell. 

But I cant think of many hard as nails centre backs in the Championship anyway

[Hoochie Bloochie Mama]

3 hours ago, Herbie6590 said:

A lot of (unpaid) work has gone into this, well worth a read IMO.

https://www.yumpu.com/en/document/read/65654151/blackburn-rovers-season-analysis-recruitment-2021

 

Interesting that our possession % has increased quite markedly since 18/19 but the % of our forward passes compared to 18/19 has dropped. 

We just have more of the ball these days and do about the same with it as when we played long to DG. 

Don't agree with the comments on the 'Results v Performances' page. How is it 'draconian' to base football decisions on anything other than results, especially if those results have barely changed over 3 years?

The AA stats confirm the view that he shoots from distance a lot because we create so few 'easy' chances for him in the box. He basically has to do it himself. Makes his 28 goals all the more remarkable. 

We're shit at set-pieces. Fact!

The most startling stat is results of games when we've been in the Top 10 in the last 3 years. 26 games played - only 3 wins! Absolute bottlers!!

Anyway, good read. cheers. 

Edited May 24, 2021 by Hoochie Bloochie Mama

[JohnGo]

14 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

I read everything. Its Mowbray who wouldnt buy a centre half. We had the money in the first season or second season when we promoted whether its Konsa who was Charlton at the time or Egan at Brentford or Cooper at Millwall. Instead when for Rodwell. 

But I cant think of many hard as nails centre backs in the Championship anyway

We’ll clear up your response as it looked like I’d suggested this was our option. I’m happy to debate, but not misrepresented.

[Hoochie Bloochie Mama]

45 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

infant schools is very different to professional football tho. 

This is the kind of informed debate I come here for. 

[rigger]

1 hour ago, chaddyrovers said:

Our squad isn't suited to playing a simple 4-4-2. in our first season back in the championship we suited it more than now

If you look at the teams who have promoted this season or make the playoff final they have mainly played 4-2-3-1 or 4-3-3 or 3-4-3. 

Brentford and Swansea have switch formations between 3-4-3 or 4-3-3 formation. Steve Cooper ditched his 3 at the back system which he has used for most of the season and move back to 4-3-3 formation he used at the start of the previous season. 

Actually I think our squad is suited to 4-4-2. The players just need playing in the correct positions. As for other teams I couldn't give a shit what systems they play, as it has no effect whatsoever on the Rovers results.

[Silas]

41 minutes ago, Hoochie Bloochie Mama said:

The most startling stat is results of games when we've been in the Top 10 in the last 3 years. 26 games played - only 3 wins! Absolute bottlers!!

This is such a telling stat.

Glad it's not all in my head. You doubt yourself sometimes. 

I swear we could all become millionaires if we just bet on the other team every time Rovers get within 3pts of top 6. 

[Blue blood]

1 hour ago, JohnGo said:

Do we have the budget for a hard as nails center half? We haven’t got a pot to piss in. The venkeys won’t spunk up the cash for a proven center half. Are you more happy to gamble on someone not proven in the Championship. Sounds to me you don’t have a viable alternative.

Well first off I'm criticising a whole strategy not just one transfer. As in the over reliance on loans all over the park. And the fact it's been going on for years - some of which when we have had a very decent transfer budget. For example had we got Bauer rather than Tosin (my go to example) we wouldn't be in as much as a mess. So it's a strategy for years that has set us back. Continuing with it is not going to help. Indeed even last summer the Ayala debacle shows there was some money there but we spent it poorly. 

Anyhow onto viable alternatives. Firstly if Armstrong is sold then some of those fees could be reinvested into the defence. A novel concept I acknowledge but we could be looking to spend some of that money on defence. Defenders are coming after all. 

Secondly there is the free transfer market. I haven't had a look but to say there wouldn't be a decent centre back in there would be very surprising. And we certainly should have money for a centre half on a free, just from Mulgrew's exit alone. But when you factor in the rest of the dross that has gone we have enough for a good wage for a free transfer. And had we not kept Johnson that would have been even more. 

Thirdly we could with good scouting minimize the risk of signing a lower league player. You say it's a risk we shouldn't take but with proper scouting that risk is alleviated. That's the point of good scouting, lowering the risks. What makes this a bit ironic is that you are talking about gambling on not proved in the championship yet are championing Carter who equally wouldn't be proven and Warton who has limited experience at this level. It seems a bit double standards on this point. 

Finally if we do go down the loan route I would prefer someone with a loan to buy option. That way if it works we can benefit from the learning curve in later seasons. With a sell on clause and another year to get the budget for it the likelihood of being able to afford the transfer. 

So there's a few different options!