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4 minutes ago, bluebruce said:

Of course he wasn't interested, it's obvious the manager didn't rate him. I wouldn't have been interested either. It was insulting that he was restricted to the ressies given our other options.

Maybe he shown his interested and performed well in the under 23's then maybe he would have played more 1st games here. 

He has only 12 games in the Championship whilst 58 games in league 1 aged 23.  

Time to let him go and find a better player

Edited by chaddyrovers
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Honestly I'm at a point where I just can't get excited about new signings as long as Mowbray is in charge. Even if the signee appears impressive I already know his impact will be neutered by Mowbray's

Hi all. Would like to thank anyone and everyone who has given my work a read over the last few days. As you can probably tell it took a very long time to do and a lot of late nights around my full tim

Fast forwards 12 months.... 'We lost the quality of Holtby and the goals of Armstrong last summer along with the regular right back and the experience of Johnson.  It's a sad day for the club but

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40 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Nothing's changed.

Talk about recruitment is almost irrelevant unless and until the manager and his staff are removed.

Hang on. Wasn't it you and one or two other "experts" who told us that you had been told that would have happened by now ?

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2 minutes ago, Mashed Potatoes said:

Hang on. Wasn't it you and one or two other "experts" who told us that you had been told that would have happened by now ?

Football is rife with Chinese whispers and false information, situations change with the wind as well, it's an interesting world. Thus when one gets told something it's hard to know whether it it or will be true. People only pass on what they hear and they cannot be held accountable for the reliability of the info.

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1 hour ago, Ulrich said:

Football is rife with Chinese whispers and false information, situations change with the wind as well, it's an interesting world. Thus when one gets told something it's hard to know whether it it or will be true. People only pass on what they hear and they cannot be held accountable for the reliability of the info.

People only pass on what they want to hear.

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2 hours ago, Mashed Potatoes said:

Hang on. Wasn't it you and one or two other "experts" who told us that you had been told that would have happened by now ?

 Well, not by a specific date, just "at the end of the season".

The information was from a seemingly reliable source, can't comment on whether it was incorrect in the first place, or something changed in the intervening period, or whether it's still on but has been delayed for whatever reason.

Still waiting for your end of season report on Mowbray you promised us!

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10 hours ago, RevidgeBlue said:

 Well, not by a specific date, just "at the end of the season".

The information was from a seemingly reliable source, can't comment on whether it was incorrect in the first place, or something changed in the intervening period, or whether it's still on but has been delayed for whatever reason.

Still waiting for your end of season report on Mowbray you promised us!

I was all ready to post my report on the manager until I read what you said regarding his departure so thought it best to wait. Obviously, trusting your good self is not a mistake I should make again.

Regarding the season just finished clearly a big disappointment. Despite what some have said, there was improvement on the defensive side of things - 54 conceded compared with 63 and 69 in the previous seasons. Problems arose though with scoring when the opposition set themselves up to be difficult to play against - either when the game was goal less or they were a goal ahead. Whilst we had a superb record when scoring the first goal - almost always going on to win the game - if we didn't get it we found it difficult and that happened far too often. I put that down to the possession style of play that was adopted. The manager clearly does have responsibilty for that decision and the often poor execution of that style - endlessly passing the ball in short and backward passes is not what it is supposed to be. Mowbray is one of the older breed of managers and I am not sure he and his staff really understand how to implement this style. It reminds me of the middle aged dad trying to dance to hip hop music at his teenage daughter's party - he thinks he knows all the moves but doesn't quite get it right.

What to do now ? My answer depends on the budget that will be available. If there is a significant budget then I would want Mowbray moved on and "someone else" brought in. However even if Armstrong is sold I suspect the budget will be limited and in those circumstances I can't see any point spending money getting rid of the manager and his team; I can't see the likes of Wilder etc being attracted to a club with limited resources in the transfer market, and that's before we get on to the idiotic owners.

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10 hours ago, RevidgeBlue said:

 Well, not by a specific date, just "at the end of the season".

The information was from a seemingly reliable source, can't comment on whether it was incorrect in the first place, or something changed in the intervening period, or whether it's still on but has been delayed for whatever reason.

Still waiting for your end of season report on Mowbray you promised us!

The evidence would correlate to it being incorrect, surely? Seeing as it's now the end of the season? 

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1 hour ago, Mashed Potatoes said:

If there is a significant budget then I would want Mowbray moved on and "someone else" brought in

I wanted that 2 or 3 years ago when it was clear he was a very limited manager and his time was up.

£40 million quid later...

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On 24/05/2021 at 16:59, K-Hod said:

Not saying the fella hasn’t put some graft into that report, but at the very beginning, he admits that we have regressed with our league position. 
Could probably have finished it there tbh....

Very much so. I dont really understand the motive behind what is clearly a report that has taken a lot of time and to be fair is presented very well. Is it a case of someone not currently within the recruitment department of a football club creating what is essentially a portfolio to try and earn himself paid work? And if so, would that in any way explain his continued insistence to justify the "performance over results" rhetoric to defend Mowbray, wary of burning bridges ahead of what he hopes will eventually see him get a paid job?

The line about Rovers recruitment team doing an excellent job did make me chuckle! I havent seen many of the players play very often although Trybull is perhaps the perfect example of how data can mislead, presumably his passing stats are good yet they dont account for how slow he does everything stunting the momentum in any attack, not a player I want to see return.

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1 hour ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

The evidence would correlate to it being incorrect, surely? Seeing as it's now the end of the season? 

It will also still be the end of the season next week. Feasibly, anything up til say preseason could be end of the season.

But I'm sure they got duff info. He's going nowhere yet.

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48 minutes ago, Herbie6590 said:

One for the old timers on here…is there still a chance we might see him at Ewood ??? 🤣

7951CDE7-0DE1-4125-9445-7E178E41525D.jpeg

Unfortunately we ended up with un-Lucky Tony

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1 hour ago, bluebruce said:

It will also still be the end of the season next week. Feasibly, anything up til say preseason could be end of the season.

But I'm sure they got duff info. He's going nowhere yet.

I don't believe anyone was suggesting anything more than a few days at most after the actual "end of the season" when they claimed to be ITK. They meant shortly after the last game was my understanding. Not some deadline up until pre season. 

It strongly appears that he isn't going anywhere and probably never was. 

Although at this club, nothing would surprise me! 

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1 hour ago, Herbie6590 said:

One for the old timers on here…is there still a chance we might see him at Ewood ??? 🤣

7951CDE7-0DE1-4125-9445-7E178E41525D.jpeg

I'd rather have Baggio 👍

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3 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

Is it a case of someone not currently within the recruitment department of a football club creating what is essentially a portfolio to try and earn himself paid work? And if so, would that in any way explain his continued insistence to justify the "performance over results" rhetoric to defend Mowbray, wary of burning bridges ahead of what he hopes will eventually see him get a paid job?

 

👀

 

DFBDCBC7-1B46-410B-BA7C-656E57D7E47A.png

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4 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

Very much so. I dont really understand the motive behind what is clearly a report that has taken a lot of time and to be fair is presented very well. Is it a case of someone not currently within the recruitment department of a football club creating what is essentially a portfolio to try and earn himself paid work? And if so, would that in any way explain his continued insistence to justify the "performance over results" rhetoric to defend Mowbray, wary of burning bridges ahead of what he hopes will eventually see him get a paid job?

The line about Rovers recruitment team doing an excellent job did make me chuckle! I havent seen many of the players play very often although Trybull is perhaps the perfect example of how data can mislead, presumably his passing stats are good yet they dont account for how slow he does everything stunting the momentum in any attack, not a player I want to see return.

The motive is quite clear. He loves the Club, he loves what he does and believes in it. He wants to share his undoubted talent with fellow Rovers fans, who have an interest. 

He has openly said that he believes it's time for a change of manager so there's no motive of trying to please Mowbray. His analysis of performance has data to back it up. 

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5 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

Very much so. I dont really understand the motive behind what is clearly a report that has taken a lot of time and to be fair is presented very well. Is it a case of someone not currently within the recruitment department of a football club creating what is essentially a portfolio to try and earn himself paid work? And if so, would that in any way explain his continued insistence to justify the "performance over results" rhetoric to defend Mowbray, wary of burning bridges ahead of what he hopes will eventually see him get a paid job?

The line about Rovers recruitment team doing an excellent job did make me chuckle! I havent seen many of the players play very often although Trybull is perhaps the perfect example of how data can mislead, presumably his passing stats are good yet they dont account for how slow he does everything stunting the momentum in any attack, not a player I want to see return.

Andy Watson is a massive Rovers fan who loves the club. He is massive fan of data within football and being scouting players. 

But he is trying to get a job in football as a scout or data analysis but he has produced twice now a proper recruitment documents that would be used by some clubs to provide a proper insight into how Rovers recruitment team would look at potential signings for Rovers fans who are interested in this. If you aren't, thats fine but don't criticise Andy for taking time out to produce for fans who are interested in this like myself and Wegerleswiggle do. 

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49 minutes ago, Wegerleswiggle said:

The motive is quite clear. He loves the Club, he loves what he does and believes in it. He wants to share his undoubted talent with fellow Rovers fans, who have an interest. 

He has openly said that he believes it's time for a change of manager so there's no motive of trying to please Mowbray. His analysis of performance has data to back it up. 

I didnt mean motive in anything other than a sincere way, and indeed said motive was as suspected and shown above; to try and showcase what he can do with a view to getting involved in professional football. The document be made quite clearly took a lot of time and effort and is very well presented, so its in no way offensive to suggest that he may be doing it with an ambition to get involved into football on the back of such work.

His stance on Mowbray has been fairly uncommital compared to the vast, vast majority, with a huge focus on "performances" although I dont think you can make performance objective even with data and indeed having watched every game this season, my opinion certainly wouldnt match the implication that we finished considerably below where our performances would have merited, no matter how many possession, progressive passes, expected goals stats or any other metrics you could throw at me. I do wonder if there is a risk when heavily focused in data of using your opinion to justify the data rather than vice versa, and I did also suggest that his unwillingness to be too critical of the manager was with a view of potentially getting involved with Rovers or indeed any club, something which may well be true and if so probably a very wise move.

@chaddyrovers I have not criticised his work so I am unsure why you have come to that conclusion. Although even if I had, I presume that if he has genuine ambitions of getting into football then he wouldnt be wise expecting only praise and no criticism. We have no idea if this work in its current format would be genuinely used by a professional football club, something he implies and admits himself on the first page. Either way, I gave it a quick read myself and it was fairly interesting. All I merely did was make a suggestion regarding his motive which he indirectly admitted within hours. Nothing wrong with that.

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20 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

We have no idea if this work in its current format would be genuinely used by a professional football club, something he implies and admits himself on the first page. Either way, I gave it a quick read myself and it was fairly interesting.

This is used by many football clubs IMO. 

How do you think Football clubs recruitment find their transfer targets and how do you think Clubs scout players and what tools do they used? 

Of Course Andy would like to get into football recruitment job. 

What do you think of the transfers targets he suggested? 

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27 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

 I do wonder if there is a risk when heavily focused in data of using your opinion to justify the data rather than vice versa.

Bias is one of the biggest problems when it comes to data analysis and is often unconscious, which is why typically there are teams involved checking to ensure unconscious bias isn't clouding any conclusions or shaping the way the data has been modelled. With that said it's also not uncommon for data to be purposefully manipulated to suit a specific viewpoint, particularly when funding or similar issues are in play. Not saying Andy is guilty of that for the record, just a general point to consider when looking at any data analysis. 

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Albert Einstein apparently once said;  “Not everything that can be counted counts and not everything that counts can be counted.”

That pretty much sums up my feelings on data in football - it has a part to play but so do lots of other things...

 

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