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4 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

 

We could possibly offer him a slight rise, suppose its speculation either way. But if he chooses not to stay at the ambitious, progressive club that hes at, he will be an incredibly appealing free agent to teams with more ambition and more money than us. All we have heard lately is how covid has affected our finances and how difficult we are finding even keeping the players we have. 

Barnsley have one of the lowest wage bill and a policy of not signing players over 24. 

Rovers could offer him more money in terms, longer contract, role under Manager..

You mention our finances being affected. But I would say most clubs in the championship have been badly affected now. 

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Honestly I'm at a point where I just can't get excited about new signings as long as Mowbray is in charge. Even if the signee appears impressive I already know his impact will be neutered by Mowbray's

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Fast forwards 12 months.... 'We lost the quality of Holtby and the goals of Armstrong last summer along with the regular right back and the experience of Johnson.  It's a sad day for the club but

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8 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Barnsley have one of the lowest wage bill and a policy of not signing players over 24. 

Rovers could offer him more money in terms, longer contract, role under Manager..

You mention our finances being affected. But I would say most clubs in the championship have been badly affected now. 

You think that as a key player and captain under a manager that has done such a great job, that the promise of a "role under manager" in reference to someone clinging on to a job he is regressing in solely down to negligent owners would in any way sway his decision? Surely you dont think that any sane man would swap Ismael for Mowbray?

Surely you dont think that we are an attractive prospect for the captain of a 5th place team who even if he chooses to seek employment elsewhere, will have far better options as a free agent than a team who has finished 15th, is going backwards and cannot get its key players to extend their contracts.

Even if we could offer a slight increase on the terms that Barnsley will offer, which is speculation, there will be financially stronger and indeed ambitious forward thinking clubs who would take him before us.

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1 minute ago, roversfan99 said:

You think that as a key player and captain under a manager that has done such a great job, that the promise of a "role under manager" in reference to someone clinging on to a job he is regressing in solely down to negligent owners would in any way sway his decision? Surely you dont think that any sane man would swap Ismael for Mowbray?

Surely you dont think that we are an attractive prospect for the captain of a 5th place team who even if he chooses to seek employment elsewhere, will have far better options as a free agent than a team who has finished 15th, is going backwards and cannot get its key players to extend their contracts.

Even if we could offer a slight increase on the terms that Barnsley will offer, which is speculation, there will be financially stronger and indeed ambitious forward thinking clubs who would take him before us.

Is Mowbray clinging onto his job here? We want a change of manager but the owners dont. 

Will Barnsley have another season like last season and will Ismaël even be there? 

Who are these Championship clubs apart from the 3 relegated PL clubs considering that vast majority of clubs wont be spending money and looking at free transfers and loans. I think you failed massively the financial impact on clubs over the past 15 months. 

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2 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Is Mowbray clinging onto his job here? We want a change of manager but the owners dont. 

Will Barnsley have another season like last season and will Ismaël even be there? 

Who are these Championship clubs apart from the 3 relegated PL clubs considering that vast majority of clubs wont be spending money and looking at free transfers and loans. I think you failed massively the financial impact on clubs over the past 15 months. 

Your last paragraph sums up exactly why Mowatt will be in demand. A free agent who has got in team of the year at this level will surely have teams higher than 15th in the league that will want him.

No I agree that Mowbray is not clinging on because we know that our owners dont give a shit about us. But you said that one of the potential reasons would be a "role under" Mowbray. Why would a player who has just had success working for a successful manager be attracted to work under a boring old fart like Mowbray who has us going in the wrong direction?

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1 hour ago, roversfan99 said:

Your last paragraph sums up exactly why Mowatt will be in demand. A free agent who has got in team of the year at this level will surely have teams higher than 15th in the league that will want him.

No I agree that Mowbray is not clinging on because we know that our owners dont give a shit about us. But you said that one of the potential reasons would be a "role under" Mowbray. Why would a player who has just had success working for a successful manager be attracted to work under a boring old fart like Mowbray who has us going in the wrong direction?

Yes but most clubs outside the PL regulation 3 teams wont have loads of money and I expect very few cash buys in the entire league unless clubs sell a key player to fund it. 

Is he going stay at Barnsley on low wages? Or go somewhere for more money and is the current Barnsley manager going to stay and be able to continue the good work? 

Is Mowbray a boring old fart when in the dressing room with the players? Do you know this or just speculation again? 

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By the time Mowbray gets back from holiday there will be so many propoganda excuses being wheeled out via the LT.

Fact is we went for it last season....except Mowbray didn't go for it. Now we are under a transfer ban. No money. No team. Relegation on the cards. So excited.

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6 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

Yes but most clubs outside the PL regulation 3 teams wont have loads of money and I expect very few cash buys in the entire league unless clubs sell a key player to fund it. 

Is he going stay at Barnsley on low wages? Or go somewhere for more money and is the current Barnsley manager going to stay and be able to continue the good work? 

Is Mowbray a boring old fart when in the dressing room with the players? Do you know this or just speculation again? 

I think we know enough at this stage to know how he is. Whatever about being boring, he no doubt confuses them 

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7 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

Is Mowbray a boring old fart when in the dressing room with the players? Do you know this or just speculation again? 

Christ man, have you forgotten the last 6 months...?  Mogadon falling asleep, us losing tonnes of games, Mowbray saying he's not bothered about the table....sounds like party central to me

You still are semi backing Mowbray for some reason...😔

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5 minutes ago, Sparks Rover said:

Christ man, have you forgotten the last 6 months...?  Mogadon falling asleep, us losing tonnes of games, Mowbray saying he's not bothered about the table....sounds like party central to me

You still are semi backing Mowbray for some reason...😔

Ah yes, not caring about results when you're not getting them. 

Where else would a manager get away with it 

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Partially serious counterpoint: Brentford are getting plaudits from everywhere for their success using a model which prioritises performance on different metrics over results, assuming that the results will eventually follow. 

 

The problem comes when performances have also been poor, as has been the case at Rovers. 

 

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40 minutes ago, Admiral Nelsen said:

Partially serious counterpoint: Brentford are getting plaudits from everywhere for their success using a model which prioritises performance on different metrics over results, assuming that the results will eventually follow. 

 

The problem comes when performances have also been poor, as has been the case at Rovers. 

 

If they weren't getting results, their manager would have been sacked. 

Results are the bottom line everywhere else 

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Losing Armstrong at a reduced value is only one piece of the monumental issue we face.

Rovers out of contract XI: (2022)

                      Kaminski*

Nyambe - Lenihan - Magloire - JRC

   Johnson - Davenport - Rothwell

Butterworth                           Brereton

                     Armstrong

 

Brereton cost us £6m+, Nyambe, Rothwell, JRC, Armstrong, Lenihan and Kaminski are all "sellable" assets (probably £40m combined) who we'll likely lose tens of millions on either by free transfers in 12 months (or petty tribunal fees), or selling now at a deprecated value, due to only having 1 year to run. Throw in Dacks injuries shredding us of his £15m-£20m value from 18 months ago. We could be looking at a £50m hole worth of players walking next summer.

Resign your fucking good players before they get to under 2 years. Or sell them then. Not rocket science.

Travis has 2 years to run - a "good club" would be resigning him up to 3 or 4 years this summer too, let alone most of the 11 above.

The people running this club make my blood boil.

(Least we gave "Stewy" 2 years of twilight money, Ayala a stinking 3 year deal, Smallwood (et al) that bonus 6 weeks of wages, Pears a 4 year deal and are getting "Benno" and "Jonno" back.)

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Mowatt - not a chance. On a free, was one of the best players in the division last season, and just finished 5th. I think he might leave for more money but it wont be to us. Would be a great signing for a proper playoff chasing team though.

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20 hours ago, J*B said:

I know it hardly ever happens, but if I was in charge of selling Armstrong I’d be asking for players in exchange and contributions towards their salaries to avoid paying that 40% transfer clause. 

Except that's not how it works. It fact, it veers to the fraudulent.

Players exchanged don't just become frees because the clubs decide to cheat a third party out of what was agreed in good faith.

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32 minutes ago, TheRoversReturn said:

Except that's not how it works. It fact, it veers to the fraudulent.

Players exchanged don't just become frees because the clubs decide to cheat a third party out of what was agreed in good faith.

This is why I’m not in charge. I’m guessing they attach a value to each player or something?

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1 hour ago, Angry_Pirate said:

Losing Armstrong at a reduced value is only one piece of the monumental issue we face.

Rovers out of contract XI: (2022)

                      Kaminski*

Nyambe - Lenihan - Magloire - JRC

   Johnson - Davenport - Rothwell

Butterworth                           Brereton

                     Armstrong

 

Brereton cost us £6m+, Nyambe, Rothwell, JRC, Armstrong, Lenihan and Kaminski are all "sellable" assets (probably £40m combined) who we'll likely lose tens of millions on either by free transfers in 12 months (or petty tribunal fees), or selling now at a deprecated value, due to only having 1 year to run. Throw in Dacks injuries shredding us of his £15m-£20m value from 18 months ago. We could be looking at a £50m hole worth of players walking next summer.

Resign your fucking good players before they get to under 2 years. Or sell them then. Not rocket science.

Travis has 2 years to run - a "good club" would be resigning him up to 3 or 4 years this summer too, let alone most of the 11 above.

The people running this club make my blood boil.

(Least we gave "Stewy" 2 years of twilight money, Ayala a stinking 3 year deal, Smallwood (et al) that bonus 6 weeks of wages, Pears a 4 year deal and are getting "Benno" and "Jonno" back.)

We can't just jump to 2022 and say that we are losing them. Some will certainly sign new deals. Others will have to prove they are even worth keeping on. 

We aren't the only club in this position. Players have power in these situations. We can't just put a gun to their heads and makes them sign. 

Johnson is worth keeping around imo and do we know Benno is staying? 

The Ayala deal might not look tha bad yet. He's not old. Just needs to keep fit. 

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10 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

Yes but most clubs outside the PL regulation 3 teams wont have loads of money and I expect very few cash buys in the entire league unless clubs sell a key player to fund it. 

Is he going stay at Barnsley on low wages? Or go somewhere for more money and is the current Barnsley manager going to stay and be able to continue the good work? 

Is Mowbray a boring old fart when in the dressing room with the players? Do you know this or just speculation again? 

Hmm comes across as quite obtuse this. 

I'll ignore the last paragraph as it's already been answered. 

But you say teams won't spend much money - neither will we! And off the top of my head apart from the relegated three there are a number of clubs with bigger wage bills than us who can outbid us - Bournemouth, Forest and Swansea come to mind.

And given we can't even extend existing contracts - the evidence suggests - even clubs with comparable wages can probably outbid us.  Heck even before the taps were turned off we got outdone by Preston for Bauer. 

So all the evidence points to him having better options. To say otherwise is wishful thinking. 

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18 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

We aren't the only club in this position.

Whilst I agree, the fact is I doubt many teams (outside of L2) have 6 of their starters out of contract in 1 seasons time. (Which would sell for £30m+ under long-term contracts.)

Nyambe, Lenihan, JRC, Rothwell, Brereton and Armstrong will not all resign, and we will be millions out of pocket as a result.

Do you think any of those 6 names have to prove themselves this season? 

But I agree, a Rovers player, without tinted glasses... I'm outta here. Why sign on for more Mowbray years? If we can see the iceberg as fans, you better believe players and their agents can.

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10 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

Yes but most clubs outside the PL regulation 3 teams wont have loads of money and I expect very few cash buys in the entire league unless clubs sell a key player to fund it. 

Is he going stay at Barnsley on low wages? Or go somewhere for more money and is the current Barnsley manager going to stay and be able to continue the good work? 

Is Mowbray a boring old fart when in the dressing room with the players? Do you know this or just speculation again? 

Exactly! So a free agent with his quality with no fee required will be even more in demand! 

You seemingly have reverted so inevitably quickly from regularly stating your disdain towards Mowbray to now implying that a very good Championship player may come to us simply because he can work with Mowbray!

We can't give injury prone squad players and continuously inconsistent players sufficient contracts to get them to re-sign. Our financial clout isnt going to get him!

2 hours ago, Admiral Nelsen said:

Partially serious counterpoint: Brentford are getting plaudits from everywhere for their success using a model which prioritises performance on different metrics over results, assuming that the results will eventually follow. 

 

The problem comes when performances have also been poor, as has been the case at Rovers. 

 

The key to it all is the people involved though. 

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9 minutes ago, neophox said:

Mo Besic and Josh King available on free transfers along with Theo Walcott...

Walcott has joined Southampton, but there is no chance of us affording any of those, especially King.

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36 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

We can't just jump to 2022 and say that we are losing them. Some will certainly sign new deals. Others will have to prove they are even worth keeping on. 

We aren't the only club in this position. Players have power in these situations. We can't just put a gun to their heads and makes them sign. 

Johnson is worth keeping around imo and do we know Benno is staying? 

The Ayala deal might not look tha bad yet. He's not old. Just needs to keep fit. 

They should already be getting signed up and done now, during the quiet months, to avoid problems next season like we've had this.

You say some will 'certainly' sign new deals? Will they? Will they even be offered new deals? If they are, will those offers be remotely good enough for good players who could get much more elsewhere?

We've been banging on about contracts now for months and yet only a couple of senior players have signed new deals since before Xmas. One was Dack, who I believe had virtually agreed a deal prior to his injury and that was 'on ice' until he made a recovery. The other was Bradley Johnson who probably had something in his last deal for an extra year. Then there's the year extensions on the others that have had to be activated in the absence of new long term deals being sorted.

Certainly seems to me there's an issue or inability at the club in getting new contracts sorted. And if that's the case what's the point in all this? What's the point in having an academy to develop players, persevering with them as they develop in the first team, attempts to build a squad, moans and groans about how hard life is and how unfair the rules are yet we can't even get our own house in order and can't secure what we have to protect our own assets.

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