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v Cardiff City (a) 10/4/21 - Into the Valley(s)


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12 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

I would disagree, only 1 or 2 I would consider to be top 6 players. Certainly it could finish higher than 17th mind you.

It all depends on whether you believe players are under performing because of TM or not. Looking at the squad he has assembled - excusing injuries

Personally - I think the defence from Saturday (incl GK) have top 6 potential (excl Douglas).

Elliott would walk into most teams, as would a fully fit Travis and Dack.

Armstrong would obviously get into most teams.

You then have a few players that you could argue cases for and against - i.e. Rothwell on his day would get into every team (but those days are in frequent, and rarely maintains his form over a full 90 minutes), post lockdown Brereton might get into some top 6 teams (form has dipped away again, though looked better Saturday), the Evans that plays for NI would get into most teams, Holtby from the first few matches looked excellent but drifted away.

IMO this has the potential to be a top 6 squad - though a little unbalanced - IMO what is lacking from most players is consistency and that extra 10% that most have shown at one time or another. The big question - is that down totally to Mowbray ? I think he has to take some of the blame with tactics and playing players out of position etc.

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A late equaliser is always nice but i won’t be celebrating a point at 8th place Cardiff after 1 win in 15 in a season where the target was promotion  Dumbing down to say otherwise 

It's not Mogadon we want, it's Mogagon. 😁😁😁😁

Today’s result guarantees we finish on less points than last season The season is a failure by any metric 

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A few of them might get into top 6 sides but very few of them  would stay in going off what we see here.

Then again it's all about finding their niche in a decent functioning team.  That rarely happens here they don't get chance to find any consistency in a lot of cases. They way the team is run and the turnover of players off and on is counter productive to that.

Edited by tomphil
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2 minutes ago, DavidMailsTightPerm said:

It all depends on whether you believe players are under performing because of TM or not. Looking at the squad he has assembled - excusing injuries

Personally - I think the defence from Saturday (incl GK) have top 6 potential (excl Douglas).

Elliott would walk into most teams, as would a fully fit Travis and Dack.

Armstrong would obviously get into most teams.

You then have a few players that you could argue cases for and against - i.e. Rothwell on his day would get into every team (but those days are in frequent, and rarely maintains his form over a full 90 minutes), post lockdown Brereton might get into some top 6 teams (form has dipped away again, though looked better Saturday), the Evans that plays for NI would get into most teams, Holtby from the first few matches looked excellent but drifted away.

IMO this has the potential to be a top 6 squad - though a little unbalanced - IMO what is lacking from most players is consistency and that extra 10% that most have shown at one time or another. The big question - is that down totally to Mowbray ? I think he has to take some of the blame with tactics and playing players out of position etc.

Its all a matter of opinions I suppose but I would disagree. I think people take when I say this as a defence of Mowbray and his underachievement but I think his recruitment has been poor.

Armstrong is the third top scorer in the league so little doubt for me that he can be considered a top 6 player. Dack also would be for me but unfortunately has been injured all season bar being the catalyst for that win at Millwall.

Beyond that, not so much. Elliott scores and assists plenty so maybe a case could be made for him. I personally dont think that Travis would get into any top 6 sides. Brereton even at his best was little more than ok, a couple of good performances but it was based on such a low benchmark, nothing close to a top 6 player. Rothwell has attributes but again nowhere near, same with a few including Gallagher, they not only havent done it here, they havent done it prior, Rothwell wasnt really making that much of a name at Oxford. Holtby lives off a reputation from 10 years ago, fact of the matter is that he came after being released from the German second tier, cant stay fit and even when he can, more often than not ineffective, Evans hasnt done it for 10 years. Lenihan is our most influential defender over a couple of seasons now but still rather rash, Nyambe has attributes and has been one of our better players but even he isnt top 6, Kaminski is (usually) steady but again, top 6? So many question marks.

I am not ruling out that one or two of them might suddenly start performing consistently with a new manager, and I dont doubt that we are better than a side that should be 17th.

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4 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Its all a matter of opinions I suppose but I would disagree. I think people take when I say this as a defence of Mowbray and his underachievement but I think his recruitment has been poor.

Armstrong is the third top scorer in the league so little doubt for me that he can be considered a top 6 player. Dack also would be for me but unfortunately has been injured all season bar being the catalyst for that win at Millwall.

Beyond that, not so much. Elliott scores and assists plenty so maybe a case could be made for him. I personally dont think that Travis would get into any top 6 sides. Brereton even at his best was little more than ok, a couple of good performances but it was based on such a low benchmark, nothing close to a top 6 player. Rothwell has attributes but again nowhere near, same with a few including Gallagher, they not only havent done it here, they havent done it prior, Rothwell wasnt really making that much of a name at Oxford. Holtby lives off a reputation from 10 years ago, fact of the matter is that he came after being released from the German second tier, cant stay fit and even when he can, more often than not ineffective, Evans hasnt done it for 10 years. Lenihan is our most influential defender over a couple of seasons now but still rather rash, Nyambe has attributes and has been one of our better players but even he isnt top 6, Kaminski is (usually) steady but again, top 6? So many question marks.

I am not ruling out that one or two of them might suddenly start performing consistently with a new manager, and I dont doubt that we are better than a side that should be 17th.

As you say it is all about opinions - the one that frustrates me the most is Rothwell. Without doubt shows easily enough talent in flashes to be a Premiership player - but you need consistency to be a Premiership player - and he has never had that.

My hope is Super Atko - nothing more than an average 2nd Division right back - transformed by Dalglish into an effective midfield player, key to us winning the title. A number of our current squad are arguably more talented, but don't have the drive or the right manager behind them.

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The illogicality of our team system meant that, based on the highlights, Bradley Johnson was, often, the one supporting Adam Armstrong in the forward line, as Gallagher was on the left wing. Johnson did nearly score - but it would be preferable to have a specialist forward in that role.

We saw what Armstrong's good at, receiving accurate, early passes on the edge of the box and cutting in and having a strike. I think, he'd be best played in a formation with two central strikers. It would free him up to drift and play on the shoulder, rather than having to link play - without having to go too wide, as might be expected if he played as an inside forward.

He is a bit like Mason Greenwood, in that he just needs a yard of space to hit a ferocious strike - though obviously not at that level overall. 

 

 

Edited by riverholmes
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I think i and many have seriously over estimated this teams ability due to a decent start. If we are being honest it was nowhere near good enough to get top six. Its a better team than we are seeing week in week out but top six would of been a good achievement with Bielsa in charge. Again as it all boils down to , Tonys fault for being shit at recruitment and organising a team and venkys for letting this sorry state of affairs to continue. Next season more of the same shite please with less goals, Cant wait 😩

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