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Every country and I mean every country in the world would take kane in a second.  Hes an outstanding player.  We're lucky to have a player as good as him. The Italians will be fearful of him on Sunday.  He can produce a moment of brilliance out of nothing.  The hate he gets off some people is mental.  We might not have a striker as good as him for years. 

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Another point on kane.  Hes far better than lukaku.  Lukaku's only qualities are his strength and pace. If u drop deep against him u can nullify him. With kane if u drop deep he can still produce a brilliant pass or 30 yard shot.  If u get tight with kane he can draw u in and win a foul. Hes virtually unplayable.  I rate lukaku highly but hes not at kane's level 

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I was expecting to be absolutely cock a hoop if we reached the final but in the immediate aftermath of the Denmark game I felt completely hollow as for me if tournaments are won and lost on who is most adept at manufacturing a penalty that never was from no or minimal contact then the game becomes completely pointless and isn't worth playing in the first place.

That feeling was soon overtaken though by one of looking forward to the final. I was only 2 in '66 so this is the first time I can remember us in a major final and it should be a wonderful occasion albeit it probably won't be a very open and expansive game.

 I just hope it is won by a piece of genuinely good play from either side (preferably by us of course) and not another piece of gamesmanship.

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8 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

Incredible to get to the final of an international tournament, wasnt the best performance I don't think and Sterling has dived for the penalty (we can't be hypocritical slating the Italians etc for cheating without admitting that we do it ourselves) but who cares about any of that, we are through and well done to Southgate, just one more big s

That's Ok so long you are consistent. If an Italian player fakes agony and we are then down to 10 men, will you be on here saying "who cares?"

 

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4 minutes ago, 47er said:

That's Ok so long you are consistent. If an Italian player fakes agony and we are then down to 10 men, will you be on here saying "who cares?"

 

Of course not. Equally, yesterday I am happy to admit that Sterling dived, but that I was and still ame lated that we won regardless of how.

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I see what the Italians done there. What they’ve ingeniously done is taken the word home and then rhymed it with Rome. How do they do it.

Unfortunately, I fear that’s exactly where it’s going.

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14 hours ago, AllRoverAsia said:

Did I say that.

He's the best cheat we have.

He didnt cheat. There was contact and he went down. Every player goes down in the box when they get contact. Have you not watched football for the last 10 years?

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  • Moderation Lead

People taking the moral high ground over the penalty- I’ll bet you’d have been fuming if it hadn’t been given….

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Posted (edited)

From this angle you can see there was contact twice, it's not a dive but it's very very soft. One you're glad to get but would furious if it went against you. Also because there is a little bit of contact I don't think there's enough to say 'clear and obvious error' 

 

Edited by RoverDom
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I honestly can't think which way it's going on Sunday and I'm already getting the pre match nerves. I think whoever wins it it will be tight. 

Tactically it's going to be fascinating. Surely Kane doesn't stand a chance against their centre backs so if he starts dropping deep that'll draw them out and create space for runners in behind. However that seems like an obvious trick (if I've thought it, they'll have considered it). Italy usually play a highish line but that would surely be suicide against the likes of sterling and saka? 

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39 minutes ago, K-Hod said:

People taking the moral high ground over the penalty- I’ll bet you’d have been fuming if it hadn’t been given….

You'd lose the bet in my case. Which is better, the moral high ground or the low?

What goes around comes around, especially playing Italy.

 

 

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Simulation in the Laws of the Game is described as an attempt to deceive the referee. The real issue for me is how easily players go down under minimal contact, contact which is sometimes initiated by the player himself. It is now endemic within the game and when it goes for your team it's acceptable, if it goes against you it's cheating.

How many Rovers fans despised El Hadj Diouf when he clearly dived to win Bolton a last minute penalty against us at Ewood? The same people eulogised over Martin Olssen for diving to win a penalty against that lot, so much so a song (which is still sung) came out of it.

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2 minutes ago, arbitro said:

Simulation in the Laws of the Game is described as an attempt to deceive the referee. The real issue for me is how easily players go down under minimal contact, contact which is sometimes initiated by the player himself. It is now endemic within the game and when it goes for your team it's acceptable, if it goes against you it's cheating.

How many Rovers fans despised El Hadj Diouf when he clearly dived to win Bolton a last minute penalty against us at Ewood? The same people eulogised over Martin Olssen for diving to win a penalty against that lot, so much so a song (which is still sung) came out of it.

I think the difference in this instance is that everybody agrees Olssen dived. The song is more taking the piss out of Burnley than celebrating the dive itself 

The Sterling incident was a penalty. The criticism of him is unwarranted imo. I think you’d struggle to find someone who wouldn’t go down in that position with that amount of contact. It was a silly foul by the Denmark players. 

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  • Backroom

The Danish free kick being illegal evens it up somewhat, for those who believe our penalty was soft. It should have been retaken and I doubt it goes in like that twice.

 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, K-Hod said:

People taking the moral high ground over the penalty- I’ll bet you’d have been fuming if it hadn’t been given….

I would. Just like the Leicester fans were at Wembley in 1992. It happens. But it's not cheating.

There was an incident right at the end of the season, I think in one of the lower league play off games, where a striker was going through and he practically got cleaned out by a defender, knocked off balance but managed to stay on his feet and clumsily prod the ball goalwards which the keeper saved. He chased the ref and you could see him repeatedly screaming "So do I need to go down then?" whilst the ref just ignored him and played on. The answer clearly was yes, if you are fouled in the box you are highly unlikely to get it unless you hit the deck.

Look at the Denmark free kick for their goal. Yes Shaw puts his arm across him and stops him running so yes by the law it is a foul. But putting his arm across him doesn't make him run into it and fall down. He's not pulled to the ground. The player knows there is contact and goes down. Sterling knows there is contact and goes down.  VAR checks it and it's clear that both Denmark players move into Sterling rather than Sterling move his body into them. 

It's not like the Diouf penalty at Ewood where there was clear space between him and Friedel. Nor is it like a fat coked-up Argentine punching the ball into the net in 1986 to break my heart as a kid, and facing no punishment for such an act. And if I had to suck up that blatant cheating, some people will have to suck up the fact the Danish players made contact with Sterling and he went down to ensure he got the foul.

 

Edited by Hasta
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17 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

Incredible to get to the final of an international tournament, wasnt the best performance I don't think and Sterling has dived for the penalty (we can't be hypocritical slating the Italians etc for cheating without admitting that we do it ourselves) but who cares about any of that, we are through and well done to Southgate, just one more big step to go.

Interesting to see the team selected for Sunday, Mount was poor and I don't think deserves to be an undoubted selection as he is when we have Grealish and Foden too, could also make a change on the right with Foden or Sancho coming in for Saka.

Italy play a 433 so wouldnt make sense I dont think to play a back 3.

I've gone through this tournament convinced Italy were 343, but ive read back and you're absolutely right they are 433. How on earth did Spinazzola play that way in a 4 - mad!

As they are 433 sure we will go 4231 and probably stick with Mount so he can sit on Jorginho. Agree on the ball he has been poor but he is so good at closing down.

A radical thing to do would be to go to a 343 anyway and get after them on the flanks where they are weak defensively. But that will mean Jorginho get more space in the middle which we don't want....

Also might be a bit of a weird game as both sides will prefer the other team to have possession and pounce on any errors.

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I agree we need to get at them down the flanks but the question is how we do that without leaving walker too high up the pitch because I think he'll be key to stopping the counter attack. That would be  a positive of him playing as one of the back 3 but as you say that leaves a gap in midfield. 

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13 minutes ago, Hasta said:

I would. Just like the Leicester fans were at Wembley in 1992. It happens. But it's not cheating.

There was an incident right at the end of the season, I think in one of the lower league play off games, where a striker was going through and he practically got cleaned out by a defender, knocked off balance but managed to stay on his feet and clumsily prod the ball goalwards which the keeper saved. He chased the ref and you could see him repeatedly screaming "So do I need to go down then?" whilst the ref just ignored him and played on. The answer clearly was yes, if you are fouled in the box you are highly unlikely to get it unless you hit the deck.

Look at the Denmark free kick for their goal. Yes Shaw puts his arm across him and stops him running so yes by the law it is a foul. But putting his arm across him doesn't make him run into it and fall down. He's not pulled to the ground. The player knows there is contact and goes down. Sterling knows there is contact and goes down.  VAR checks it and it's clear than both Denmark players move into Sterling rather than Sterling move his body into them. 

It's not like the Diouf penalty at Ewood where there was clear space between him and Friedel. Nor is it like a fat coked-up Argentine punching the ball into the net in 1986 to break my heart as a kid, and facing no punishment for such an act. And if I had to suck up that blatant cheating, some people will have to suck up the fact the Danish players made contact with Sterling and he went down to ensure he got the foul.

 

Sorry---cheating is cheating, doesn't matter matter what other incidents you come up with. He went to ground when there was no or minimal contact and certainly no foul. He calculated that taking a shot would be less likely to get a result cos he was on an angle.

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A shame that it's not just a handful of England fans that seem to think celebrating our progress at this tournament involves climbing on things, trying to pull things over, smashing things up, abusing the police and other members of the public... They are nothing but vandals, criminals, and an embarrassment. Thick could be another description. The majority of them probably don't even understand the treasure of getting this far in a tournament after so many years of failure, and yet behave like Neanderthals at the first opportunity. I will never understand what brings some to do this, but it's not really surprising. 

Still, can't wait for the final! Come on England! 

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14 minutes ago, 47er said:

Sorry---cheating is cheating, doesn't matter matter what other incidents you come up with. He went to ground when there was no or minimal contact and certainly no foul. He calculated that taking a shot would be less likely to get a result cos he was on an angle.

Disagree.

As did the VAR officials that looked at it and debated it.

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Contact is contact and whilst there wasn't enough for him to throw himself on the floor there was enough for both bits of contact to knock him off balance unfairly but if you don't go down you don't get anything. 

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Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, RevidgeBlue said:

I was expecting to be absolutely cock a hoop if we reached the final but in the immediate aftermath of the Denmark game I felt completely hollow as for me if tournaments are won and lost on who is most adept at manufacturing a penalty that never was from no or minimal contact then the game becomes completely pointless and isn't worth playing in the first place.

That feeling was soon overtaken though by one of looking forward to the final. I was only 2 in '66 so this is the first time I can remember us in a major final and it should be a wonderful occasion albeit it probably won't be a very open and expansive game.

 I just hope it is won by a piece of genuinely good play from either side (preferably by us of course) and not another piece of gamesmanship.

It was soft, but a foul non the less I thought the foul on Kane was a pen.  The re-do on the free kick for Denmarks goal was against the grain of how things have been called and what happened to this no attackers in the wall, is that just an English rule?  Sort of makes up for Lampards no goal against the Germans and the Hand of God a little bit.  Rev, I am beginning to think you are becoming just a grumpy old fart.  Our first major tournament final since I was 8.  I love it. 

If we want to talk cheating I thought the Danes had it down to a fine art, at times zero, or very very minor, contact and the dropped like a stone rolling around, it worked.   The booking on Maguire just bollox, I was 100% sure he was targeted to be sent off.  Thankfully he wasn't

Unless Southgate takes the shackles off and lets our players express themselves I think the Italians will embarrass us.

  England, damned if they do damned if they don't.

Edited by USABlue
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Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, RoverDom said:

Contact is contact and whilst there wasn't enough for him to throw himself on the floor there was enough for both bits of contact to knock him off balance unfairly but if you don't go down you don't get anything. 

Did he dive? Yes, he did. Case closed. 

The are given these days for sure , but the idea of VAR is that they spot this and don't give it. They failed. 

If "contact is contact" defenders may just forget abou trying. You have lads like sterling bombing at them looking for contact like a leg to fall over. They tried to be careful and he still hit the deck, with zero to absolute minimal contact. Diving is a skill now though and I don't like that. 

Would it bother me if Ireland did it to win a game? No. But I would admit it was a dive. 

Edited by Bigdoggsteel
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