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The problem with that is, we've tried bringing in foreign managers who've won things elsewhere and that hasn't worked either. English managers haven't won trophies. Mancini is Italian and a winner of things. Both parts work. He understands the players and is a winner. Southgate gets our players and they buy into his ideas. Unfortunately he's not won anything. 

Where we go from here I do not know, but I suspect he'll still be in place come Qatar

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3 hours ago, den said:

I disagree that we played well under par. I think with that team we played as well as we could and Italy did outplay us.

We did last night what we’ve done successfully throughout the competition. We kept it very tight and tried to use the pace and technique that we have at our disposal up front, on the break.

It wasn’t enough against a top side like Italy. As simple as that really. 
 

The World Cup next year will be harder for sure. No games at Wembley, Italy will be just as good and Germany I expect to be stronger. It will be very difficult.

Agree to disagree. We bottled it big time.

Italy are a good side, we're evidently as good as they couldn't beat us. 

Any time we got the ball wide they were all at sea. It was clear to most that we had to get out of the 3-4-3 / 5-2-3 formation we were in for the first half - it gifted Italy far too much time and space on the ball.

The insistence that Kane plays every minute is also baffling. He's unbelievably slow and doesn't lead the line at all - whenever he came short for the ball there was nobody in the box to take advantage of his play - and he was bossed in the air. 

I'd have had Rashford on for him from 70 mins running into the channels and challenging that old CB pairing to run with him - they wouldn't be able to. 

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2 hours ago, DavidMailsTightPerm said:

Have to agree - the foul on Saka must surely be also deemed dangerous play ?

What he did is a Personal Foul (15 yard penalty) in the NFL.

It's one of those ones that the football rule book doesn't account for, sadly. It was incredible dangerous play and absolute shithousery, but thems the rules. 

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21 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

a very small minority of people. Aren't proper England fans. 

Can't shrug if off I'm afraid. England scum have been doing this for decades and the problem has never gone away.

Excessive drinking, boorishness, violence, laser lights in goalkeeper's faces, booing of national anthems......... and then there's the racist shame

Uefa and Fifa have taken note.

Fines likely and I think we can wave goodbye to any hopes of the 2030 World Cup. 

Edited by jim mk2
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9 minutes ago, gumboots said:

The problem with that is, we've tried bringing in foreign managers who've won things elsewhere and that hasn't worked either. English managers haven't won trophies. Mancini is Italian and a winner of things. Both parts work. He understands the players and is a winner. Southgate gets our players and they buy into his ideas. Unfortunately he's not won anything. 

Where we go from here I do not know, but I suspect he'll still be in place come Qatar

I mean he's got us to a semi, a final and beaten Germany in knockout. No ones done that since Alf Ramsey... it's crazy anyone could even think he should or could be sacked. Is he perfect? No. Is he doing a very good job? Yes!

Fans all over Europe will be comparing their managers unfavorably to Southgate. If he was the Spanish, French, German manager we'd all be singing his praises...

The fact is squad wise we were not one of the best, so to get to the final on the back of that (albeit with some fair winds in terms of draw, home advantage and travel), is a very good result. 

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Just now, jim mk2 said:

Can't shrug if off I'm afraid. England scum have been doing this for decades and the problem has never gone away.

Excessive drinking, boorishness, violence, laser lights in goalkeeper's faces, booing of national anthems......... Uefa and Fifa have taken note.

I think we can wave goodbye to any hopes of the 2030 World Cup. 

You hate anything English Jim don't you? 

You never have nothing good to say about your own country. 

I guess you don't drink Jim and have always be goodish two shoes. 

We have an excellent chance of hosting the 2030 world cup cos our nation infrastructure including our state of art stadiums, training facilities and hotels. Most countries don't have this. We do. Plus the Government is backing this. 

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17 minutes ago, gumboots said:

The problem with that is, we've tried bringing in foreign managers who've won things elsewhere and that hasn't worked either. English managers haven't won trophies. Mancini is Italian and a winner of things. Both parts work. He understands the players and is a winner. Southgate gets our players and they buy into his ideas. Unfortunately he's not won anything. 

Where we go from here I do not know, but I suspect he'll still be in place come Qatar

Are you having a laugh with these comments? where we do go from now, We give Southgate a new long term contract until the Euro's 2026 and continue the plan. Why change it? 

He is the most successful England manager since 1966 and we have achieve a semi Final in the 2018 world cup and Getting to final in 2020 Euro's. Something we haven't done in Euro's ever before our best finish was semi finals in Euro 96. 

What more do you want? 

 

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21 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

I guess you don't drink Jim and have always be goodish two shoes. 

We have an excellent chance of hosting the 2030 world cup cos our nation infrastructure including our state of art stadiums, training facilities and hotels. Most countries don't have this. We do. Plus the Government is backing this. 

There is a difference between having a drink and drinking to excess which we have a real problem with in this country. The English football fans are some of the best in the world until drink get's involved and then they are amongst the worse.

Last night will not have helped England's chances one bit of hosting the 2030 World Cup it was a showcase event and it was marred by some quite frankly appalling scenes.

I'd personally like to see the 2030 World Cup go to the South American bid (which includes Uruguay) as it would be fitting for the 100th Anniversary to go back to where it all began. Plus World Cup's in Latin America tend to be some of the best ones.

Edited by Ewood Ace
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16 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

You hate anything English Jim don't you? 

No. Just the idiot fans who let the country down at football matches and the useless prime minister and government.

Apart from that, it's wonderful. Even the weather.

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56 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

A tiny minority of dickheads in a football mad nation… no WC for you.

Corrput micro state with myriad human rights abuses and employing slave labour… fill your boots and we’ll even move the whole European domestic season for you while we are at it.

Go figure.

Racism exists and needs stamping out but it'll never be totally eradicated. Like every other affliction it'll have to be lived with but not tolerated.

This online racism though has taken on a whole life of its own and the MSM are all over it. Fueling it in many respects in their desire to brand the UK the most racist place in Europe.

Nothing could be further from the truth and i'm a bit sick of it all now it's like a trend. All just to inspire more division, 56 million people, around 1k abusive tweets and mostf found to be not coming from England.

Some of the genuine ones investigated also turn out to be not from your average steroetypical English white blokes !!!

 

We are being played.

Edited by tomphil
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38 minutes ago, joey_big_nose said:

I mean he's got us to a semi, a final and beaten Germany in knockout. No ones done that since Alf Ramsey... it's crazy anyone could even think he should or could be sacked. Is he perfect? No. Is he doing a very good job? Yes!

Fans all over Europe will be comparing their managers unfavorably to Southgate. If he was the Spanish, French, German manager we'd all be singing his praises...

The fact is squad wise we were not one of the best, so to get to the final on the back of that (albeit with some fair winds in terms of draw, home advantage and travel), is a very good result. 

I disagree on the squad part.  We had probably the best strength in depth at the tournament behind France. Midfield wasn't among the best but every other area was pretty strong.  Then u take into account the players that missed out. There are other players that can come into it before the next tournament 

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1 hour ago, Ewood Ace said:

This group of players is capable but the Achilles Heel is Southgate. He's had two great opportunities where the draw has opened up beautifully both in the last World Cup and this Euros and he has blown them both with his cowardly approach.

If Southgate couldn't win this tournament then it is hard to see how he could win any other. He has had home advantage and two other things that England haven't had too often in tournaments a very favourable draw and some favourable referring decisions.

If the FA really want to build on this then they would get rid of Southgate and bring in an elite manager. The difference between the two sides last night was that one had a Premier League & Serie A winning manager and the other team had a manager who relegated Middlesbrough. One manager saw the problems and made changes to change the game whilst the other looked on and did nothing to counteract it.

Which "elite" English manager have you identified ?

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20 minutes ago, Ewood Ace said:

There is a difference between having a drink and drinking to excess which we have a real problem with in this country. The English football fans are some of the best in the world until drink get's involved and then they are amongst the worse.

English footballing fans are the best in the world and I have friends who went to the game last night. They didn't see the trouble but said it was small minority of fans who will the punishment from the FA and the police. 

20 minutes ago, Ewood Ace said:

Last night will not have helped England's chances one bit of hosting the 2030 World Cup it was a showcase event and it was marred by some quite frankly appalling scenes.

Lets not blow it out of portion that it was a small minority of fans

20 minutes ago, Ewood Ace said:

I'd personally like to see the 2030 World Cup go to the South American bid (which includes Uruguay) as it would be fitting for the 100th Anniversary to go back to where it all began. Plus World Cup's in Latin America tend to be some of the best ones.

They had the world cup in 2014 and for me it should be in England and Ireland where we would host a great world cup and we already have the infrastructure where South America countries don't have what we have. 

13 minutes ago, jim mk2 said:

No. Just the idiot fans who let the country down at football matches and the useless prime minister and government.

Apart from that, it's wonderful. Even the weather.

Bring politics in the football thread again Jim. It was small minority and the way you are acting you think its was majority of the fans  

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56 minutes ago, gumboots said:

The problem with that is, we've tried bringing in foreign managers who've won things elsewhere and that hasn't worked either. English managers haven't won trophies. Mancini is Italian and a winner of things. Both parts work. He understands the players and is a winner. Southgate gets our players and they buy into his ideas. Unfortunately he's not won anything. 

Where we go from here I do not know, but I suspect he'll still be in place come Qatar

Where do we go from here? Upwards.  Its been a very quick upturn from 5 years ago. No one after that debacle against Iceland would have dreamed we would have improved this much within such a small space of time. The youth academies are producing far more technically gifted youngsters in a long time.  I think the only worry is the mindset of English players to go into their shell when they are put under pressure 

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1 hour ago, Ewood Ace said:

This group of players is capable but the Achilles Heel is Southgate. He's had two great opportunities where the draw has opened up beautifully both in the last World Cup and this Euros and he has blown them both with his cowardly approach.

If Southgate couldn't win this tournament then it is hard to see how he could win any other. He has had home advantage and two other things that England haven't had too often in tournaments a very favourable draw and some favourable referring decisions.

If the FA really want to build on this then they would get rid of Southgate and bring in an elite manager. The difference between the two sides last night was that one had a Premier League & Serie A winning manager and the other team had a manager who relegated Middlesbrough. One manager saw the problems and made changes to change the game whilst the other looked on and did nothing to counteract it.

get rid of Southgate who got us to semi final and final in the last 2 tournaments and been the most successful manager since Terry Venables in 96. He has got better results than Hoddle, Keegan, Eriksson, McClaren, Capello, Hodgson and Allardyce. Thank god the nation is right behind Southgate as manager and the FA are backing Southgate to continue as national team manager and Southgate wants to stay on and rightly so

What more do you want? We don't need another foreign Manager who is here for Money only like Capello and Eriksson was and we wasted millions and millions. 

So who is elite English manager then? 

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21 minutes ago, Mashed Potatoes said:

Which "elite" English manager have you identified ?

Did I say they had to be English?

21 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

They had the world cup in 2014 and for me it should be in England and Ireland where we would host a great world cup and we already have the infrastructure where South America countries don't have what we have. 

Brazil had it in 2014 but they are not part of the South American bid. Europe hosted the World Cup in 2018 so they have actually hosted it more recently that South America. There is no shortage of infrastructure in South America and what there isn't will be built as regularly happens when countries host major sporting events. 

It would also be nice to see the World Cup return to it's spiritual home for it's 100th year anniversary.

21 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Lets not blow it out of portion that it was a small minority of fans

People have been using that excuse for decades now but the fact that decades on it is still a problem suggests it is something more systemic than simply being a 'small minority'.

Edited by Ewood Ace
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1 hour ago, RevidgeBlue said:

I do think this group of players is theoretically capable of winning something but I don't believe it will happen with Southgate as manager.

They do say these days that football management is 95% man management and what I will concede is that Southgate seems good at keeping the squad happy in a tournament environment  cooped up in a hotel for a month.

I don't think however that when push comes to shove he's got that little bit extra to push us over the line against the better sides. For me that game was lost in the second half last night not on penalties. By the time you get to penalties it's always a complete lottery and a coin flip one way or the other. 

Tough one - think that Mancini had fewer egos/reputations to manage and got Italy pressing us full on in 2nd half. When Chiesa got injured England did the same thing for a few minutes and then fell back again - that i put on the players tbh but Southgate needed to make subs and get the fresh players dragging the team up. But can you sub Kane or Sterling in the final and keep your job if you lose...

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Another thing - Grealish coming out and saying he offered to take a penalty is exactly the wrong thing to do imo. A phonecall to Southgate with a request the Southgate clarify that "others offered" would have been the right way.

Team first - self second

Edited by Roverthechimp
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1 minute ago, Roverthechimp said:

Another thing - Grealish coming out and saying he offered to take a penalty is exactly the wrong thing to do imo. A phonecall to Southgate with a request the Southgate clarify that "others offered" would have been the right way.

Team first - self second

I get the impression that the relationship between Southgate and Grealish isn't the warmest.

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45 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Are you having a laugh with these comments? where we do go from now, We give Southgate a new long term contract until the Euro's 2026 and continue the plan. Why change it? 

He is the most successful England manager since 1966 and we have achieve a semi Final in the 2018 world cup and Getting to final in 2020 Euro's. Something we haven't done in Euro's ever before our best finish was semi finals in Euro 96. 

What more do you want? 

 

 

5 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

get rid of Southgate who got us to semi final and final in the last 2 tournaments and been the most successful manager since Terry Venables in 96. He has got better results than Hoddle, Keegan, Eriksson, McClaren, Capello, Hodgson and Allardyce. Thank god the nation is right behind Southgate as manager and the FA are backing Southgate to continue as national team manager and Southgate wants to stay on and rightly so

What more do you want? We don't need another foreign Manager who is here for Money only like Capello and Eriksson was and we wasted millions and millions. 

So who is elite English manager then? 

I don't understand the need to give Southgate such a specifically long contract until 2026, ie for 3 tournaments. Managers have life spans and we ultimately do not know how long Southgate's will be, he could continue to improve and we could then go onto winning at least one tournament, or we could have already peaked and could start going backwards. The sensible thing would just be to allow him to go into the World Cup without committing ourselves to 3 whole tournaments leaving us in a very sticky situation should progress not continue as it has done so far.

That is not based on Southgate as an individual, indeed I said before the tournament that he should be judged on results and we have done even better than before and I have praised him for that. And that doesn't even necessarily mean that anything other than a place in the final at the World Cup for example would be a disaster or a total failure. You look at someone like Wenger at club level, his achievements in his first decade as manager may have had people wanting him to sign on for life etc but after a while his ideas became less effective and regression started to happen, that most likely will happen to Southgate at some point, lets hope that is years and years and many tournaments away with at least one trophy added to our bare trophy cabinet before that.

What if we fail to qualify or crash out of the group stage of the World Cup, would you still be content with him having 2 tournaments after that? What if we did poorly in both the World Cup and Euro 2024, again, would that 5 year contract seem wise at that point?

I also again find it a bit distasteful to suggest that foreign managers by proxy are money grabbers.

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At the end of the day it was disappointing but to lose on penalties to a very good Italian side is nothing to be ashamed of. A penalty shootout is a lottery at the best of times, and with what was on the line and the location I can't even begin to imagine the pressure they must have had on their shoulders.

I don't particularly rate Southgate as a manager in terms of the football played, but at the end of the day he has produced our two best tournament performances in my lifetime back to back so something is clearly working. He has earned the right to continue into Qatar. If he can keep the backline playing as well as it has and improve the way we attack we'll be formidable force in that tournament too. I think we should take it a tournament at a time and judge based on that.

And in regards to 2030 - after some of the behaviour of the last week it shouldn't be anywhere near here as there are significant issues that need solving.

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21 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

 It was small minority and the way you are acting you think its was majority of the fans  

Pretending it's a minor problem is just putting your head in the sand. The damage has been done and confirmed how we are seen abroad. Goodbye 2030 World Cup

 

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