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5 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

I dont think Southgate is the problem. I think the players performance tonight wasnt his fault but players failing to turn up and perform. Tempo far too slow. 

What was wrong the tactics? 

Playing 2 holding players against SCOTLAND.  FFS SCOTLAND.  Why the hell were we so slow in possession.  Why can't we perform like we did 2 years ago when we were blitzing teams. Teams that are better than Scotland.  Southgate has gone all negative the last couple of years. Too worried about the opposition 

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8 minutes ago, J*B said:

I seriously question whether or not football will ever get back to the game I

Did you watch the Turkey-Wales game? Fantastic, just like football used to be.  

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1 minute ago, jim mk2 said:

Did you watch the Turkey-Wales game? Fantastic, just like football used to be.  

Honestly Jim, you couldn’t pay me to pretend to be interested in Turkey vs. Wales. 

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England have the players to do well. A major issue is that they're playing without wingers or a No.10. At least one of the forward 3 must provide width. And, at least one player must operate centrally and look for space between opponent's defence and midfield, to support Kane.

As much as I dislike the fad of 4-3-3, as it's played, as Italy showed, if the forwards provide width, you can get overlaps and crosses.

Harry Kane is starved of space and crosses - not by the opposition, but by the way the team plays.

 

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Just now, Displaced Rover said:

Well you've quoted two players, but you're also wrong about them, specifically Rice.

 

You don't rate Foden, Sterling, Kane, Grealish, Mount, Rashford, Sancho, Bellingham as quality players?

It's a good squad, held back by a very poor manager.

Well Souness and Keane agree with me. Rice was fucking awful. I've seen Jason Lowe play better. Phillips wasn't much better. 

The attacking players are all good Premier League players who play with lots of very good foreign players. None are exceptional, although Bellingham and Foden may be in time. But those fabulous attacking players don't do much when they play together for England in games that matter. 

Like I said, over-hyped. 

We've heard it all before with the 'Golden Genaration' and they were a lot better than the rabble on the pitch tonight.

Edited by Hoochie Bloochie Mama
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1 minute ago, J*B said:

Honestly Jim, you couldn’t pay me to pretend to be interested in Turkey vs. Wales. 

 You missed a treat.....a passionate team that wanted to win and 2 genuine world class players

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1 minute ago, Hoochie Bloochie Mama said:

Well Souness and Kean agree with me. Rice was fucking awful. I've seen Jason Lowe play better. Phillips wasn't much better. 

The attacking players are all good Premier League players who play with lots of very good foreign players. None are exceptional, although Bellingham and Foden may be in time. But those fabulous attacking players don't do much when they play together for England in games that matter. 

Like I said, over-hyped. 

 

Souness has spent 30 mins talking complete shite. And I'm not sure Steve Kean was doing any punditry but maybe you mean Roy Keane?

I'm gonna leave this here cos you're talking utter pish.

The individuals are good enough to go deep in this tournament, they're being hamstrung by a manager who is way out of his depth. 

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4 minutes ago, jim mk2 said:

 You missed a treat.....a passionate team that wanted to win and 2 genuine world class players

Yeah, it was a terrific game. The Welsh had plenty of what we haven’t shown so far - something beating under the three lions.

When these team like Scotland and the Welsh pull on the shirt their performance goes up 50%. When we pull the shirt on we go backwards.

Edited by Tyrone Shoelaces
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In possession we were practically playing a 6-0-4 formation, which was never likely to end well. 

I would ask if we can claim Ben back but let's face it, he's more likely to win something with Chile than England, whilst playing under better managers and with far more creative players.

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Just now, Displaced Rover said:

Souness has spent 30 mins talking complete shite. And I'm not sure Steve Kean was doing any punditry but maybe you mean Roy Keane?

I'm gonna leave this here cos you're talking utter pish.

The individuals are good enough to go deep in this tournament, they're being hamstrung by a manager who is way out of his depth. 

'Go deep' LOL.  Yeah, leave it there mate. You're right, it's the 'Golden Generation' Mk2... Philips and Rice 🤣

 

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18 minutes ago, J*B said:

Honestly Jim, you couldn’t pay me to pretend to be interested in Turkey vs. Wales. 

It’s a summer tournament! Watching a plethora of games involving teams you usually wouldn’t is the whole point, no?

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3 minutes ago, Hoochie Bloochie Mama said:

'Go deep' LOL.  Yeah, leave it there mate. You're right, it's the 'Golden Generation' Mk2... Philips and Rice 🤣

 

Our whole attitude is too negative by far. We’d look better if we actually went for it instead of being so cautious.

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29 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

I dont think Southgate is the problem. I think the players performance tonight wasnt his fault but players failing to turn up and perform. Tempo far too slow. 

What was wrong the tactics? 

For a start playing 2 holding midfielders against a crap team,then taking Kane off when we needed a goal,get one of Rice or Phillips off and get Grealish in the middle running at their defence and play 2 up front in Rashford and Kane,Mount did nothing in the second half get him off and get Sancho on.To have only made 2 subs show how negative a manager he is ,it was as though he settled for a draw,we're going nowhere with him.First decent team we play in the knockout stages and we're going out.

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Just now, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

Our whole attitude is too negative by far. We’d look better if we actually went for it instead of being so cautious.

Agreed, but if we went for it we'd expose that very average defence and that accident waiting to happen in goal. There's a reason he plays Lowe and Lower in front of the back four.  

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8 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

Our whole attitude is too negative by far. We’d look better if we actually went for it instead of being so cautious.

Southgate (and the players) seemed terrified of losing to Scotland. Although a 0-0 is as good as a defeat… emotionally.

The elephant in the room though is, how does Sterling keep getting away with being so awful for England?

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12 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

Our whole attitude is too negative by far. We’d look better if we actually went for it instead of being so cautious.

Just a mirror image of Mowbray. Two holding mids. Back and sideways football.  Focus on nullifying the opposition. Piss poor set pieces.  Put the point in the bag. 

 

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On the positive side we are through, and another clean sheet.

On the negative side basically everything else. No one, except Pickford, came out with much credit.

I'm inclined to agree with Gary Neville's comments. It's not really about whose picked, the players were good enough to play much much better than that, it was more about the intensity.

At the most basic level we didn't press and we didnt pass the ball quickly. Why we didn't is hard to understand.

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Bloody terrible. I'm not even sure where to start. Biggest thing for me is that it clearly wasn't working and Southgate did nothing to change it. 

We were being out fought in the middle when out of possession and when in possession we played it sideways. Either an extra man or more forward momentum was needed in the middle in the form of Bellingham. 

Reece James was one who I wanted to kick out of the squad all together. When I was about 12 or 13 I could take on a whole team. But I was a shy kid content with not making a mistake. Reece James played like the 13 year old me. I'd like to swear at the complete lack of ownership he took over his own performance. 

Kane came off after looking crap. We needed the ball to stick. Dominic Calvert-Lewin. But no he brings on Rashford to run in being. Beings where Gareth. Behind where?? Idiot.

Grealish should have been on for Sterling and not Mount. But essentially non of our attacking players could get in the game after the lack of control in the middle. 

And finally. No spunk. Southgate. Wants cool heads. But he removed the passion. And it cost us. 

Raising my hand. I'd be a better gaffer than Southgate. Genuinely. It's not rocket science. And I've got more about me than this bloke still reeling from a missed penalty 20 odd years ago. We aren't going to do well here. As there is still no clear identity. 

I'm pissed off. Because we need a leader. And we got an over promoted bloke because he spent so long in the same organisation.

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Two holding midfielders was not the problem. There was enough attacking talent on the pitch. The problem is the positions they occupy. Foden should have been wide left and playing in Shaw on the overlap. However, neither Sterling nor Foden provided regular width, from what I could see. The ball to the full back was, therefore, something of dead end play, as it came back in field, often. When the opponents are defensive and deep, playing with non-threatening wide players (no matter how high up the pitch they assemble) is a failure.

 

Edited by riverholmes
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51 minutes ago, roverandout said:

Playing 2 holding players against SCOTLAND.  FFS SCOTLAND.  Why the hell were we so slow in possession.  Why can't we perform like we did 2 years ago when we were blitzing teams. Teams that are better than Scotland.  Southgate has gone all negative the last couple of years. Too worried about the opposition 

Phillips didn't get forward at all in the game like the Croatia game. Scotland midfield stop Mount, Foden and Sterling from having influence on the game. 

Kane no impact but we arent created anything 

I would play Henderson and Grealish in the next game with Foden and Phillips dropping out. Would like Sancho come off the bench aswell. 

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