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7 hours ago, oldjamfan1 said:

My partner's then-9-year-old son actually wore a Croatia shirt (bought for him by his Scottish dad!) while watching the WC 2018 semi final on holiday in Spain. We got some puzzled looks from most people until it was explained that he was a Scot, not a Croat. That evening ended with a Scottish family taunting us with "It's no' cummin' hame the noo is it ha ha?"

Bitter as fook, the lot of them.

This made me laugh a lot!

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9 minutes ago, roverandout said:

Good referee.  Takes no shit from no one

What about the clear act of cheating by the Turkish player trying to win a penalty. The easiest yellow card you'll see and he didn't do it.

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It seems to me that football has entered an age of tactical ignorance or confusion. I say this, admittedly, based on very limited amount of watching football of late but from Rovers to the Italian national team, managers have ditched the structured formations of 4-4-2 or 4-5-1 and are fielding loosely structured teams in which, apparently, everyone but the keeper, defenders and defensive midfielder has a loosely fixed role. Rather than producing total football, it is stifling creativity as there is a lack of organisation.

Specialist attackers, such as wingers or number 10s are effaced in what seems to be a free for all that results in a nothing at all, almost. I'm not sure of the solution - but someone's got to recognise that organisation is actually rather important in attacking play and, rather than a hindrance, it is essential to creativity. It is physically impossible for a striker or full back to play in four or five different roles in a game - and it detracts from showing their talents.

All that said, I am willing to be corrected by those who watch more football than me and to be told that I'm generalising, based on select examples.

 

Edited by riverholmes
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Turkey are sitting back the whole game.  Any half decent team can have this amount of possession when a side surrenders possession every 5 minutes.  The few times Turkey have ventured forward they've caused problems 

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  • Backroom
16 minutes ago, simongarnerisgod said:

off topic i know but is anyone watching the tennis,rafa and novak slugging out like hearns and hagler☺️

Thanks. Had forgotten about that. 

Looks like an epic. Gonna have a watch. 

This football match is over.

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  • Backroom

Difficult match to judge really, as Turkey were so poor. Ten minutes in I had no idea what Turkey's gameplan was - counter attack with a single 35 year old attacker up top? Good luck with that one. Unsurprisingly failed spectacularly. Assuming that wasn't the initial plan maybe a young Turkish team just wilted under the pressure, particularly with the match being in Rome.

Italy did look very good, and I can't imagine England ever playing like that, but they will have much tougher tests to come.  

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Just now, DE. said:

Difficult match to judge really, as Turkey were so poor. Ten minutes in I had no idea what Turkey's gameplan was - counter attack with a single 35 year old attacker up top? Good luck with that one. Unsurprisingly failed spectacularly. Assuming that wasn't the initial plan maybe a young Turkish team just wilted under the pressure, particularly with the match being in Rome.

Italy did look very good, and I can't imagine England ever playing like that, but they will have much tougher tests to come.  

Here it comes. The comparison.  Italy looked good but Turkey were rotten. The game was won in midfield.  Italy dominated that area but Turkey allowed them to. Southgate will go for 2 holding players.  Which never works.  We should be playing with 1 holding player rice and Mount in front of him.  All 3 Italy goals came from Turkey mistakes.  Its not as though Italy scored 3 wonder goals.  

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2 minutes ago, simongarnerisgod said:

he`s also got no idea of his best eleven either

Without sounding arrogant.  Italy don't have as many top class options as we do so its a bit easier to put a side out . Whereas we have options everywhere.  Though italys midfield looks alot more composed on the ball than ours. 

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11 minutes ago, roverandout said:

Just to add whilst mancini has been working on a system for 3 years, Southgate has been faffing about chopping and changing.  Italy have a game plan, Southgate has none

Southgate fancies himself as a bit of a tactician. I think there will be something worked out about how we play, like at the world cup.

Whether it is effective....?

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2 minutes ago, roverandout said:

Without sounding arrogant.  Italy don't have as many top class options as we do so its a bit easier to put a side out . Whereas we have options everywhere.  Though italys midfield looks alot more composed on the ball than ours. 

not sure we have top class options in defence or midfield tbh,defensively we are shambles and we lack a class holding midfielder,we are pretty dynamic going forwards but better sides won`t give us that option to much

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2 minutes ago, simongarnerisgod said:

not sure we have top class options in defence or midfield tbh,defensively we are shambles and we lack a class holding midfielder,we are pretty dynamic going forwards but better sides won`t give us that option to much

I agree. But Italy's defence will be tested far more against better teams.  Any side with pace will really trouble chielini and bonucci.  Rice is a good holding player. Phillips is a good deep lying playmaker.  We need mount in the middle alongside rice.  Not 2 holding players 

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6 minutes ago, joey_big_nose said:

Southgate fancies himself as a bit of a tactician. I think there will be something worked out about how we play, like at the world cup.

Whether it is effective....?

I agree on that but he can't decide his best formation.  When we played 433 we looked unplayable.  But hes reverting to more defensive tactics which is understandable considering our centreback worries but it takes something away from our best area

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1 hour ago, riverholmes said:

It seems to me that football has entered an age of tactical ignorance or confusion. I say this, admittedly, based on very limited amount of watching football of late but from Rovers to the Italian national team, managers have ditched the structured formations of 4-4-2 or 4-5-1 and are fielding loosely structured teams in which, apparently, everyone but the keeper, defenders and defensive midfielder has a loosely fixed role. Rather than producing total football, it is stifling creativity as there is a lack of organisation.

Specialist attackers, such as wingers or number 10s are effaced in what seems to be a free for all that results in a nothing at all, almost. I'm not sure of the solution - but someone's got to recognise that organisation is actually rather important in attacking play and, rather than a hindrance, it is essential to creativity. It is physically impossible for a striker or full back to play in four or five different roles in a game - and it detracts from showing their talents.

All that said, I am willing to be corrected by those who watch more football than me and to be told that I'm generalising, based on select examples.

 

The complaint is usually the other way around, that modern football is too rigid and doesn't let players express themselves on the pitch. I thought both Italy and Turkey looked highly structured, with the difference that Turkey did most things within that structure very poorly. Players are generally less specialized in defensive or attacking roles these days, but that's a result of the game having reached such speed that it's considered wasteful for all players not to be able to contribute in both attack and defense. The days of peg legged centre backs like Wharton might very well be coming to an end. 

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im`e very concerned we won`t be able to cope with concerted pressure that the top nations will bring,if he picks mings then you might as well start with ten because he`ll be sent off,thats a certainty,as a nation we ar`nt set up to defend,it`s not in our mindset,you could get away with it with the likes of terry and rio in the centre,they were world class,macguire,stones and the rest are vastly inferior to them

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4 hours ago, Commondore said:

The complaint is usually the other way around, that modern football is too rigid and doesn't let players express themselves on the pitch. I thought both Italy and Turkey looked highly structured, with the difference that Turkey did most things within that structure very poorly. Players are generally less specialized in defensive or attacking roles these days, but that's a result of the game having reached such speed that it's considered wasteful for all players not to be able to contribute in both attack and defense. The days of peg legged centre backs like Wharton might very well be coming to an end. 

I think that a certain rigidity, within reason, is essential for players to express themselves.

I would suggest that the decline of ball runners, for example, the classic winger of old, is an example of the current game failing to allow players to express themselves.

The winger running and/or whipping in a cross is a rare sight and a big loss to football, I believe. The No.10 specialist position is also dying out. In the past, Italy had a Totti-type linking play but not any more, from my initial look at their team.

Even, the need for a specialist striker is being doubted nowadays. As Rovers fans, we saw this in the sight of Buckley and Dolan given turns as centre forwards by Mowbray.

I do agree, I think, that Turkey played a more rigid formation. I suppose the weaker teams will do so to pack the midfield. 

 

Edited by riverholmes
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Very impressed by Italy, thought they were excellent both on and off the ball. They kept it really well but completely suffocated Turkey whenever they did lose it and didn’t allow them to play at all. Add in the exceptional Verratti who fits this team perfectly in terms of being technically excellent but also industrious and in your face, and you’ve got a team that is capable of going far.

Looking forward to a first look at Belgium later.

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1 hour ago, frosty said:

Very impressed by Italy, thought they were excellent both on and off the ball. They kept it really well but completely suffocated Turkey whenever they did lose it and didn’t allow them to play at all. Add in the exceptional Verratti who fits this team perfectly in terms of being technically excellent but also industrious and in your face, and you’ve got a team that is capable of going far.

Looking forward to a first look at Belgium later.

On the flip side, Turkey were bloody hopeless 

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