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If you boo England players you are part of the problem


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There is definitely an irony in that the people who constantly yell "SNOWFLAKE" are always the same people who are most offended by anything that doesn't comfortably sit within their narrow world-view

I agree, society is a bit too woke / snowflakey these days. Comedy is dying and everyone is looking for a reason to be offended. People tip toe around others and work places are filled with equality a

There are many good reasons to get annoyed at footballers, but young men taking a stand (or knee) against racism, is not one of them.    

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6 minutes ago, Ewood Ace said:

From what I hear from fans who boo they claim that it is the political side of BLM that they are against, not the Black Lives Matter movement in general. 

In that case those fans are within their right to do so.  If you blur a social movement with a political organisation you're going to get these confusions with what is being protested versus what is being supported.  Unless you get the messaging clear and simple you're asking for something like booing to happen when there's ambiguity.

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Just now, Alex Rover said:

If you blur a social movement with a political organisation you're going to get these confusions with what is being protested versus what is being supported.  Unless you get the messaging clear and simple you're asking for something like booing to happen when there's ambiguity.

The messaging has been clear and simple from the England players and manager with no ambiguity whatsoever. Sadly the knuckle dragging Neanderthals booing are to simple to understand what the players and manager have said very clearly on multiple occasion. 

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17 minutes ago, Ewood Ace said:

 Sadly the knuckle dragging Neanderthals booing are to simple to understand what the players and manager have said very clearly on multiple occasion. 

Do you have a suggestion for what to do about it?

Not a dig, serious question. 

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First time poster long time lurker. Samba was a rovers legend, as was Benni Mac. At the time it didn't even cross my mind they were black, they were just outstanding footballers. 

Kneeling is creating racism in my opinion.

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1 minute ago, Silas said:

Do you have a suggestion for what to do about it?

Not a dig, serious question. 

A suggestion for what? What the players should do, what the fan's should do or what should be done with those that boo?

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2 minutes ago, Ewood Ace said:

A suggestion for what? What the players should do, what the fan's should do or what should be done with those that boo?

Either, or, all. 

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1 minute ago, Silas said:

Either, or, all. 

The players should carry on doing what they are doing. Fans if they want to show their support for them doing it can applaud and if they don't want to show their support then just sit down and keep their mouths shut and if they can't be respectful enough to do that then eject them from the stadium.

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54 minutes ago, Gav said:

Yep, rubbish as I said earlier. 

Incidentally, you do realise that Kick it Out support the taking of the knee?

Edited by Ewood Ace
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19 minutes ago, Marktheshark8 said:

Kneeling is creating racism in my opinion.

It's creating division, that's for certain.

I'm sympathetic to the cause but my view is kneeling needs to stop and a meaningful dialogue needs to start between the players and Fifa, Uefa, the FA, Premier League etc.

Let's see some action. Kicking out of the international and club game the likes of Russia and eastern European countries where players are regularly abused would be a start. 

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23 minutes ago, Ewood Ace said:

The players should carry on doing what they are doing. Fans if they want to show their support for them doing it can applaud and if they don't want to show their support then just sit down and keep their mouths shut and if they can't be respectful enough to do that then eject them from the stadium.

Fair enough. Can't argue any of that.

Just hard to police I suppose. Camera on crowd, identify booing where possible, ban from England for life. I'd be happy with that, fair warning up front.

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8 minutes ago, jim mk2 said:

Let's see some action. Kicking out of the international and club game the likes of Russia and eastern European countries where players are regularly abused would be a start. 

Let's get our own shop in order before we start worrying about other countries. Racism in football is rising year on year in this country. 

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3 minutes ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

Far too much ambiguity with it all. 

What is ambiguous about any of this? It's only ambiguous if you have your head in the sand and your fingers in your ears.

Gareth Southgate: England manager says taking the knee is showing solidarity, not a political statement - BBC Sport

Southgate says players are 'determined' to take the knee during EUROs - YouTube

Dear England by Gareth Southgate | The Players' Tribune (theplayerstribune.com)

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I do struggle with this idea that in a sport where racism is undeniable - and has been for many, many years, that we have one set of fans who are openly racist, then on the other hand a different set of fans who boo taking the knee only because of the links of taking the knee to the original BLM movement.

They are the same people.

Just ask the question - why do some people feel the need to add “all lives matter”? Why? 

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There is a thing with equality and diversity type things that naturally creates a bit of resentment. For the average Joe who isn't racist / sexist / homophibic etc and doesn't see such behaviour on a frequent basis, when events or protests or symbolic gestures come along they feel like it's being rammed down their throats and therefore resent it and protest it. Its not the right way to think about it at all but I understand how the thought process gets there. Which is why I think no matter what the act whether its kneeling or otherwise, will attract criticism and booing. I disagree that kneeling creates racism but it does create division but I think anything would. 

 

It is completely wrong but I did used to think like this when I was a bit younger and more ignorant (although would never actively oppose anything). Having never discriminated (to my knowledge) or witnessed it on a problematic scale, when awareness campaigns and protests came along there was a feeling of "I'm not doing anything wrong why are you lecturing me, get the actual racists" I guess the taking the knee is provokes something similar? "I'm not racist just get on with the football" 

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Racism is definitely rife in sport. Monkey chants are quite common on the mainland of Europe. Our very own Chris Samba had a banana thrown at him in Russia; Zenit St Petersburg fans pressure the board to adopt a white only policy. In this country I don’t think racism is massive in the actual sport itself but more on social media. I can’t remember the last racist incident inside a ground but it is usually confined to one or two idiots as opposed to an entire section. I certainly don’t think clubs are pressured to not sign black players, or that white players are given preference. The area this nation should improve on is inclusion in management and coaching teams but that is largely driven by foreign owners / directors anyway. 
 

Perhaps that is where the message gets lost. Either way, the fact that so many teams and players are now deciding to opt out of the gesture shows that it is even divisive amongst people you suppose are on the side of anti-racists. If anything people should be annoyed at the fanatical hard left of BLM for hijacking a symbol which has nothing to do with the defunding of police or tearing down of the nuclear family but is, in its creation, a symbol of civil rights movements

Edited by Dreams of 1995
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7 minutes ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

Our very own Chris Samba had a banana thrown at him in Russia;

That was just western propaganda, never happened. 

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1 hour ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

Racism is definitely rife in sport. Monkey chants are quite common on the mainland of Europe. Our very own Chris Samba had a banana thrown at him in Russia; Zenit St Petersburg fans pressure the board to adopt a white only policy. 

Let's get our own house in order before we start lecturing other countries. Also I am sure that it was purely an oversight on your part but you forgot to add that Zenit do sign non white players which is why in their current squad they have Malcom, Wendel, Barrios and Douglas Santos.

1 hour ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

In this country I don’t think racism is massive in the actual sport itself but more on social media. I can’t remember the last racist incident inside a ground but it is usually confined to one or two idiots as opposed to an entire section.

Just a few months before the lockdown Fred was subjected to monkey taunts in the Manchester derby as well as being pelted with objects. Also you do seem in denial about the extent of racism in football in this country, figures show that it is is rising year by year. Last year there was a 53% increase in reported racial abuse incidents, in 2019 it went up by 43% and in 2018 it went up by 22%.

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16 minutes ago, Ewood Ace said:

Let's get our own house in order before we start lecturing other countries. Also I am sure that it was purely an oversight on your part but you forgot to add that Zenit do sign non white players which is why in their current squad they have Malcom, Wendel, Barrios and Douglas Santos.

Just a few months before the lockdown Fred was subjected to monkey taunts in the Manchester derby as well as being pelted with objects. Also you do seem in denial about the extent of racism in football in this country, figures show that it is is rising year by year. Last year there was a 53% increase in reported racial abuse incidents, in 2019 it went up by 43% and in 2018 it went up by 22%.

I never said they didn’t sign black players. I mentioned their fan base. By Malcolm I’m sure you mean this talented player: 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/world/zenit-st-petersburg-malcom-signing-barcelona-banner-protest-a9039761.html%3famp

Or what the Zenit fans have to say about their other black (and potentially gay) players:

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/1448587-were-not-racist-but-zenit-st-petersburg-fans-ask-to-ban-blacks-and-gays.amp.html

In terms of inclusion in sport we have our house in order. We don’t unfurl explicitly racist banners or dedicate entire sections of our stadia to far-right nationalist ultras. Racism in English football is a far cry away from the explicit Neo-Fascist fans of Italian, German, Russian, Polish and Ukrainian fan bases. 
 

I am not in denial it exists in England. As always you are very aware of the societal issues facing England - although let’s not forget other U.K. nations have now said they will not take the knee - but completely unaware of the huge racial issues elsewhere. Is it you being disingenuous or are you simply completely unaware of what goes on elsewhere? 
 

In this country we have one or two loud mouth idiots that get caught, are stuffed with life time bans from the club and 3-10 year bans from football altogether, whereas elsewhere in the world they go unpunished and excused (in the case of lokomotiv Moscow). This sport does have a deep rooted affiliation with the far right but a lot of good work has seen that influence diminished in England. It is now seen as a laughing stock of clowns. We are head and shoulders above other European nations that’s for sure. That’s the only point I was making. But even so, there’s evidently some way to go. However the notion we have to get our house in order before lecturing others is faulty logic. The incidents in our own game are dwarfed in volume and severity elsewhere and we come down far harder than others. That’s a fact. 

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9 minutes ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

I never said they didn’t sign black players. I mentioned their fan base. By Malcolm I’m sure you mean this talented player: 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/world/zenit-st-petersburg-malcom-signing-barcelona-banner-protest-a9039761.html%3famp

I though it was only fair to point out that they do sign non white players as due to your omission someone could have read your post and thought that the Zenit board may have caved into the ultras. As a side note I'm not sure I'd call Malcom talented since he moved to Barca his talent seems to have completely disappeared.

9 minutes ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

In terms of inclusion in sport we have our house in order. We don’t unfurl explicitly racist banners or dedicate entire sections of our stadia to far-right nationalist ultras. Racism in English football is a far cry away from the explicit Neo-Fascist fans of Italian, German, Russian, Polish and Ukrainian fan bases. 

You are right it is much more subtle in this country and those who are not so subtle would rather hide behind a computer screen than do it in a stadium.

9 minutes ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

In this country we have one or two loud mouth idiots that get caught, are stuffed with life time bans from the club and 3-10 year bans from football altogether, whereas elsewhere in the world they go unpunished and excused (in the case of lokomotiv Moscow). This sport does have a deep rooted affiliation with the far right but a lot of good work has seen that influence diminished in England. It is now seen as a laughing stock of clowns. We are head and shoulders above other European nations that’s for sure. That’s the only point I was making. But even so, there’s evidently some way to go. However the notion we have to get our house in order before lecturing others is faulty logic. The incidents in our own game are dwarfed in volume and severity elsewhere and we come down far harder than others. That’s a fact. 

This is what I mean by denial it is far far more than one or two idiots in this country and it is on the rise last year there was a 53% increase in reported racial abuse incidents in the game, in 2019 it went up by 43% and in 2018 it went up by 22%. Yet you seemed far more concerned about what is happening in a country nearly 4,000 miles away than you are here. Let's get our own shop in order and then perhaps we can start lecturing other countries.

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