Joe Rothwell Poll

[Bigdoggsteel]

Should have cashed in if we were offered over £3 million. Doesn't strike me as a lad who will put the clubs aspirations above his own when the chips are down. I think he's a tools down sulker.

As Mowbray correctly said we could have signed 2 players from that money. Celtic signed O'Reilly for just over a million and he looks a great player. 

I would be delighted to be proven wrong on this and for Rothwell to have an amazing end to the season, but I can't see it. 

Edited February 10, 2022 by Bigdoggsteel

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

1 hour ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Should have cashed in if we were offered over £3 million. Doesn't strike me as a lad who will put the clubs aspirations above his own when the chips are down. I think he's a tools down sulker.

As Mowbray correctly said we could have signed 2 players from that money. Celtic signed O'Reilly for just over a million and he looks a great player. 

I would be delighted to be proven wrong on this and for Rothwell to have an amazing end to the season, but I can't see it. 

I can’t say I’m his biggest fan. You can’t have a player in the engine room who only turns it on now and again.

[Exiled in Toronto]

32 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

I can’t say I’m his biggest fan. You can’t have a player in the engine room who only turns it on now and again.

I agree. There’s a lot more to centre mid than being a schoolyard dribbler. Plus, he does very little in the way of anticipating and moving to cover opponents passing options. Relative to Travis, he’s very immobile when we don’t have the ball.

[RevidgeBlue]

3 hours ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Should have cashed in if we were offered over £3 million. Doesn't strike me as a lad who will put the clubs aspirations above his own when the chips are down. I think he's a tools down sulker.

As Mowbray correctly said we could have signed 2 players from that money. Celtic signed O'Reilly for just over a million and he looks a great player. 

I would be delighted to be proven wrong on this and for Rothwell to have an amazing end to the season, but I can't see it. 

Some people like yourself are reading things that aren't there, I thought Rothwell's attitude was absolutely spot on last night, he ran his socks off.

Lenihan's head didn't appear to be right but up until the last couple of games people had been complimenting him on how well he'd been playing and what a warrior he was.

Were you one of the ones that was ok with dropping Nyambe pre match as well?

[Bigdoggsteel]

31 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Some people like yourself are reading things that aren't there, I thought Rothwell's attitude was absolutely spot on last night, he ran his socks off.

Lenihan's head didn't appear to be right but up until the last couple of games people had been complimenting him on how well he'd been playing and what a warrior he was.

Were you one of the ones that was ok with dropping Nyambe pre match as well?

Hard to tell about Rothwells attitude. What we do know is he had a bad game and is yet to contribute anything positive since January. 

Lenihan got too fired up wanting to win and made a stupid decision. It's the opposite of downing tools and not trying. 

We have signed Zeefuik, who comes with decent pedigree and Nyambe often has muscular injuries and needs his work load managed, I wouldn't be too critical without knowing the ins and outs behind the decision. I mean actually knowing, not going off random posts on a forum where there is huge form for things being said that proves to be untrue. I think people like yourself are reading things that aren't there and forming conspiracy theories about the manager and his perceived dislike of Nyambe.  Did Zeefuik have a good game, no, but he wasn't alone in that. 

[Exiled in Toronto]

Not too much weeping and wailing about Joe Rothwell having played his last game for us then.

Never much of a fan myself: I stopped getting up off my seat about three years ago as his runs so rarely resulted in anything, mainly I felt because he was a lot better at accelerating than he was at decelerating while keeping the ball under control once he got near the box. Only very rarely would he be able to score or set up a decent chance once the defenders started closing in. As a centre-mid he was just too inconsistent as a threat and too rubbish defensively.

Running down a contract once could be due to any number of reasons, doing it twice is symptomatic of calculating greed.

Will soon be forgotten.

[Gav]

On 10/02/2022 at 16:10, Bigdoggsteel said:

Should have cashed in if we were offered over £3 million. Doesn't strike me as a lad who will put the clubs aspirations above his own when the chips are down. I think he's a tools down sulker.

As Mowbray correctly said we could have signed 2 players from that money. Celtic signed O'Reilly for just over a million and he looks a great player. 

I don’t think we need to look much further than this post by @bigdogsteel above for the answers. Mowbray knows the lad, realised he wasn’t up for the fight and would have sold him but for meddling owners, the rest is history.

I firmly believe the £3m Bournemouth offered, reinvested in Jan, would have seen the club in playoffs, but we’ll never know. 

Edited May 9, 2022 by Gav

[Mattyblue]

Bds? Banned again, is he? 

[Admiral Nelsen]

10 hours ago, Exiled in Toronto said:

Not too much weeping and wailing about Joe Rothwell having played his last game for us then.

Never much of a fan myself: I stopped getting up off my seat about three years ago as his runs so rarely resulted in anything, mainly I felt because he was a lot better at accelerating than he was at decelerating while keeping the ball under control once he got near the box. Only very rarely would he be able to score or set up a decent chance once the defenders started closing in. As a centre-mid he was just too inconsistent as a threat and too rubbish defensively.

Running down a contract once could be due to any number of reasons, doing it twice is symptomatic of calculating greed.

Will soon be forgotten.

 

I might be splitting hairs a bit, but calculating greed is probably a bit strong. Looking after number 1, certainly. 

Agree with your assessment of him as a player though. Seemed to have a bit of bad luck at first when it came to hitting the post and narrowly missing chances, but the numbers don't lie over his time here - for a supposedly attacking player with his talent he just hasn't been anywhere near productive enough. 

One thing that we'll miss though is his ability to get us up the park quickly. He definitely is premier league quality when it comes to breaking with the ball at pace, and we've relied on him doing that from deep quite a lot this year. His overall contribution won't be missed that much for me, but there are aspects to his game that will need replacing. 

[davulsukur]

Forest and WBA apparently offering Rothwell a contract, in Forest's case, offering him a deal irrespective of what division they end up in.

According to Lancs live that is.

Edited May 9, 2022 by davulsukur

[Mattyblue]

Must be wrong, we were told repeatedly by a certain poster that the Manc lad is only leaving to ‘go back down south’… maybe the midlands is what he meant.

[tomphil]

In what universe would anything other than freed up wages from a Rothwell sale have been reinvested in Jan ?

[Leonard Venkhater]

On 09/05/2022 at 13:21, tomphil said:

In what universe would anything other than freed up wages from a Rothwell sale have been reinvested in Jan ?

I think the point is that TM was requesting that the club accept the fee from Bournemouth and use it to support our promotion push. He had little faith in Rothwell and neither did I!

At the time, I felt it seemed a reasonable request, although it would have been seen as a PR disaster and depicted as the reason that we failed, had we still done so.

 

[MarkBRFC]

At the end of the day, even if Rothwell had gone and we got a couple of decent players in, we still would have had Mowbray in charge so nothing would have gone any differently.

[Leonard Venkhater]

2 minutes ago, MarkBRFC said:

At the end of the day, even if Rothwell had gone and we got a couple of decent players in, we still would have had Mowbray in charge so nothing would have gone any differently.

Who knows?

However, it is not beyond the bounds of possibility for us to have got the extra six points out of all those games...

[tomphil]

1 hour ago, Leonard Venkhater said:

I think the point is that TM was requesting that the club accept the fee from Bournemouth and use it to support our promotion push. He had little faith in Rothwell and neither did I!

At the time, I felt it seemed a reasonable request, although it would have been seen as a PR disaster and depicted as the reason that we failed, had we still done so.

 

It's an easy line to throw out for him though he was probably more miffed because he'd promised Rothwell if he played well for him he'd help him move up.  That's how Mowbray seemed to pitch himself to players and fair enough but he also knows how things work at this club.

He struggles to get good players signing during the windows after having them in the building but ending up settling for loanee kids instead.  Then all of a sudden he has 2 good players lined up to come with the Rothwell money ?

Sorry i don't buy it, at best they were another couple of loans or 500k buys who wouldn't have made much difference. 

The wages already in this seasons budget would have been freed up and that wouldn't have been much but as for the rest no chance. He was well aware of all this pre Armstrong sale but still did his best to help him through the door, only being true to his word i suppose.  Can't blame him too much for that but on Rothwell he's just playing the room again imo,  he hung his hat on the other Jan signings and they didn't work.

[roversfan99]

3 minutes ago, tomphil said:

It's an easy line to throw out for him though he was probably more miffed because he'd promised Rothwell if he played well for him he'd help him move up.  That's how Mowbray seemed to pitch himself to players and fair enough but he also knows how things work at this club.

He struggles to get good players signing during the windows after having them in the building but ending up settling for loanee kids instead.  Then all of a sudden he has 2 good players lined up to come with the Rothwell money ?

Sorry i don't buy it, at best they were another couple of loans or 500k buys who wouldn't have made much difference. 

The wages already in this seasons budget would have been freed up and that wouldn't have been much but as for the rest no chance. He was well aware of all this pre Armstrong sale but still did his best to help him through the door, only being true to his word i suppose.  Can't blame him too much for that but on Rothwell he's just playing the room again imo,  he hung his hat on the other Jan signings and they didn't work.

Just regarding the sentence in bold, is that true? Mowbray spent all last summer seeming frustrated that none of the money was being allowed to be reinvested even before Armstrong had actually been sold, and kept saying how we could only sign kids on loan from the Premier League but that it would be close to the end of the window before that happened because we could not offer much financially and had to "sell ourselves" as a club that would allow these players a platform to play regularly etc. He has repeatedly said that he doesn't like relying on the loan market and mentioned needing experience last summer but didn't have the budget to do that.

He had Josh Maja in the building but even then that was a loan deal and it was only a medical issue that prevented the deal from going through.

[tomphil]

Point still stands that for whatever reason we didn't get certain signings over the line despite going well down the route with them. Also he knew how it works here when fees hardly ever get reinvested but wages are often allowed to be freed up and lets not forget how he likes to alter narratives.

So i find all this having two good players lined up to sign to help a promotion push 'if' Rothwell was sold all a bit of a stretch. 

End of the day those situations are difficult for the owners because they are damned either way. Only a top signing coming in and hitting the ground running would cover selling a star player at that point in the eyes of fans.

And you can bet your last dollar had we sold Joe and brought in a couple more yet things had still fallen away Mowbray would be sat there blaming the sale of Rothwell.

[roversfan99]

13 minutes ago, tomphil said:

Point still stands that for whatever reason we didn't get certain signings over the line despite going well down the route with them. Also he knew how it works here when fees hardly ever get reinvested but wages are often allowed to be freed up and lets not forget how he likes to alter narratives.

So i find all this having two good players lined up to sign to help a promotion push 'if' Rothwell was sold all a bit of a stretch. 

End of the day those situations are difficult for the owners because they are damned either way. Only a top signing coming in and hitting the ground running would cover selling a star player at that point in the eyes of fans.

And you can bet your last dollar had we sold Joe and brought in a couple more yet things had still fallen away Mowbray would be sat there blaming the sale of Rothwell.

Owners should not be interfering with decisions regarding transfers, the autonomy should be given to the manager on such decisions. That is the main worry going forward, that they did that in the first place.

I would have struggled to see 2 players being finalised in a couple of days.

[JBiz]

20 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

Owners should not be interfering with decisions regarding transfers, the autonomy should be given to the manager on such decisions. That is the main worry going forward, that they did that in the first place.

I would have struggled to see 2 players being finalised in a couple of days.

There was an athletic article last week that suggested it was Waggott who wouldn’t sanction the sale, not the owners.

[tomphil]

But Mowbray himself is in the press saying i don't think Steve is a decision maker he just carries out the orders.

It is though so easy at this club for everybody to keep passing the buck due to the silent detached ownership.

[Leonard Venkhater]

On 13/05/2022 at 14:43, tomphil said:

Point still stands that for whatever reason we didn't get certain signings over the line despite going well down the route with them. Also he knew how it works here when fees hardly ever get reinvested but wages are often allowed to be freed up and lets not forget how he likes to alter narratives.

So i find all this having two good players lined up to sign to help a promotion push 'if' Rothwell was sold all a bit of a stretch. 

End of the day those situations are difficult for the owners because they are damned either way. Only a top signing coming in and hitting the ground running would cover selling a star player at that point in the eyes of fans.

And you can bet your last dollar had we sold Joe and brought in a couple more yet things had still fallen away Mowbray would be sat there blaming the sale of Rothwell.

Fair points, well made etc.

Just a worrying thought though...Keeping Rothwell was not the preference of the guy, who sees him in training and who is actually charged with picking the team etc. However, it does seem to have been the preference of those who live thousands of miles away.

End result: a string of average to shit performances from player manager did not  think worth keeping, especially in light of other available options...

We only needed a few more miserable points out of so many games....

But, in all honesty, I can't say I know with certainty....

[Hasta]

3 minutes ago, Leonard Venkhater said:

Just a worrying thought though...Keeping Rothwell was not the preference of the guy, who sees him in training and who is actually charged with picking the team etc. However, it does seem to have been the preference of those who live thousands of miles away.

But. But. But.  Director of football is the way forward. 

[riverholmes]

I read a LET online published quote from last summer in which Mowbray said that if the main contract hold-outs didn't sign new deals, they'd stay and see out their contract: “In the future moving forward, Lenihan, Nyambe and Rothwell are in similar situations and we’ll have to deal with that and see how we go. For me, talking to the club, let’s get this window finished and see if we can address some of the situations, see where we are financially, and if we can’t offer new improved contracts then they are going to run," Mowbray was quoted as saying on 7 Aug 2021, as Armstrong was about to be sold.

It seemed, at the time, Mowbray and the club were quite relaxed or unplanned regarding the situation, which is part of the problem, as to protect transfer values, valuable players ideally shouldn't enter their final years, when they will likely hold out to see their options.

Rather than repeatedly complain that Nyambe can't do the basics of crossing or cutting back the ball and drop him at intervals, Mowbray should have, perhaps, pushed for a transfer to find someone he does like. Nyambe, as a young, fairly experienced right back with some decent international football experience would have, I guess, commanded a reasonable fee back in 2021.

Fortunately, the club have successfully acted regarding Kaminski but thought needs to go to Brereton-Diaz, as well as Dack, who has a one year option but that shouldn't be relied upon, if Rovers can help it.

 

Edited May 15, 2022 by riverholmes

[aletheia]

We could have had a few more 'miserable points' had we had a manager able to enthuse, able to have a basic grip on tactics and formations (Johnson false 9?), able to promote belief, able to enforce basic tactics for corners/freekicks/game management, able to man-manage successfully, able stop avoid favourites/sychophants, able to do basic essentials for success irrespective of the hand dealt in January.