Tony Mowbray's Reign...& is he off to Sunderland ?

[matt83]

5/10. Middle of the road score for a middle of the road manager. 

The good: took over from coyle, promotion from division 3, some decent signings. 

The bad: cups pretty much most seasons, failing to have a top 10 finish, some of the absolute tripe he comes out with, the excuses (not that he makes excuses).

All in all its just been a bog standard tenure. Two words to sum up his reign stability and mediocrity 

[1864roverite]

10 hours ago, OldEwoodBlue said:

2 out of 10.

Got us relegated when it was easier to stay up. Most of the points he dropped were for the exact same reasons as today.

 

 

I think you need to research the points gained once he took over the managers role. Coyle is the reason we were relegated and Coyle alone should be blamed.

Personally I would give him a 5 and no more. Although this season brought us a far better points return and better league position, another fatal February has killed our season.

[AllRoverAsia]

Asawhole or Arsehole?

[AllRoverAsia]

Anyway he's not gone, or have I missed something, so I'll save the bricks for some other time.

Just noticed that anti analysis started this thread. Irony?

Edited March 23, 2022 by AllRoverAsia

[Guest]

I think the topic should be renamed and be titled 'Mowbray's Reign as a HOLE'

 

[glen9mullan]

Id give him a 7 based on.

Got us promotion first time of asking, some big clubs have gone down and struggled to bounce back straight away.

Made some good signings (bad ones too) but in players like Dack, Rothwell, Kaminski, Armstrong, Brereton they've improved.

Done a great job of bringing the young players through, never been a better time to be an academy player at the club.

Loan market he has utilised really good, getting players in like Elliott, Tosin, Van Hecke, Harwood Bellis, Khadra , who will all go on to bigger and better things.

Stabilsed club to a degree where we are a solid championship side, with no threat of relegation since promotion.

I genuinely think he has taken us as far as he can, which is is partially due to lack of investment from those above.

He has not been able to get fans back who have left, but was certainly not responsible for them deciding enough was enough.

When things have run to a natural conclusion, which I feel we are at that point, it can be easier to be clouded by the here and now. Emotion if football does that to us. You could say being 2nd at Christmas and being on the brink of blowing at least a play off spot should lose a few points.

However given in the Bowyer days I felt we had a stronger team and he couldnt get us to even challenge for the play offs, yet i'd give him a 6, i've got to give Mowbray at least a point higher

[arbitro]

5.5 from me.

The way he has handed out lengthy contracts to average, older and simply not good enough players has cost this club a fortune. I also believe that his over thinking and over complicating tactics has cost us a lot of points but I will counter that with some games where his in play decisions have gained us points but the deficit of points lost is far greater. However by far his biggest failing is not bringing in the right type of player in January when we were second in the league and will not, in my opinion get a better chance to get automatic promotion. Two of three players of the right ilk would have got us over the line but in his infinite way he didn't think so. The promotion he took us too gets him some credit but in all honesty with the players at his disposal for that level of was fully expected.

Mowbrays time will generally be remembered by me as better that the likes of Ince, Kean and Coyle but way short of the likes of Don Mackay, Bob Saxton and Jim Smith.

[Guest]

4/10.

In terms of playing staff, he'll leave us in not too dissimilar situation to that he inherited in terms of lack of quality. Lenihan, Nyambe and Rothwell will be gone, Diaz sold and we'll need at least 8 new players to even be competitive next year.

Started the season back up very well. Season after was terrible. Should've got playoffs last season with that squad, looked like relegation at one point, should've cruised playoffs this time, but will finish 10th. 

Having said that, I loved the League One season, but we were promoted due to Dack/Graham/Mulgrew more than we were TM. Play 4 strikers in that league and you'll win more games than you lose.

His reluctance to buy defenders, or anyone in fact, when well placed in January every season is weird. A striker and CM this season and we'd have made playoffs. End of discussion.

The Harrison Reed situation, as well as the very public fall outs between him and Travis on more than one occasion sums up his time here perfectly. So does the constant tinkering/playing players out of position just to get them in the team. The players who have CONSISTENTLY been played out of position, to list but a few:

Elliott Bennett

Jack Rodwell

Harrison Reed

Dack false 9

Adam Armstrong

Gallagher

BBD

Buckley

Antonsson

Giles

All off the top of my head. That's consistently played out of position too, not mentioning the instances such as Khadra RWB on Saturday.

He can't help himself and it will always be his undoing at this level and above. Against Reading all we needed to do was play 4-3-3, let everyone know exactly where they're playing and try beat them. We want for a 5 out of possession/4 in possession/unless it was on the right then it was 5 again weird hybrid formation and ultimately nobody had a clue what to do. Next man in may well be an uninspiring Tony Pulis type appointment, but we will need that type of head for the next couple of seasons because a huge rebuild is required, once again.

 

 

 

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

33 minutes ago, arbitro said:

5.5 from me.

The way he has handed out lengthy contracts to average, older and simply not good enough players has cost this club a fortune. I also believe that his over thinking and over complicating tactics has cost us a lot of points but I will counter that with some games where his in play decisions have gained us points but the deficit of points lost is far greater. However by far his biggest failing is not bringing in the right type of player in January when we were second in the league and will not, in my opinion get a better chance to get automatic promotion. Two of three players of the right ilk would have got us over the line but in his infinite way he didn't think so. The promotion he took us too gets him some credit but in all honesty with the players at his disposal for that level of was fully expected.

Mowbrays time will generally be remembered by me as better that the likes of Ince, Kean and Coyle but way short of the likes of Don Mackay, Bob Saxton and Jim Smith.

The trouble is Mowbray would have had to sign about 15 players before he managed to get the  “two or three players of the right ilk”.

[Crimpshrine]

I would go with 5/10 so far. Average in almost every aspect.

He's signed some good players, he's signed some bad players. Despite the fabled 'journey', planning for the future has not worked out.

I am worried that it's too early for this discussion. A trip to India followed by a new contract could lead to a struggle next season and we could all be voting 2/10 this time next year.

[Miller11]

I’m going to wait until the end of the season before I decide. Could be anywhere between a 3 and a 9.

As a slight aside though, I’m really sick of seeing people justifying our current collapse by saying “we are overachieving”.

Bollocks.

Just because people thought we might struggle this season doesn’t mean it would have been remotely acceptable to be in a relegation battle. Our aim should always be to get back into the top flight, and as supporters we shouldn’t accept that being one of the 26 best teams in the country is completely beyond us. It just goes to show how badly run we are that so many people are now really happy to accept mediocrity. Some even embrace it.

Waggott, Mowbray and everyone else make enough excuses of their own without us doing it for them. Injuries, FFP, parachute payments, referees or anything else aren’t the issue - being badly run from the top down is. We could have had the one single acceptable season since Venky’s came along, but it seems like we are going to throw the opportunity away.

[lraC]

12 minutes ago, Miller11 said:

I’m going to wait until the end of the season before I decide. Could be anywhere between a 3 and a 9.

As a slight aside though, I’m really sick of seeing people justifying our current collapse by saying “we are overachieving”.

Bollocks.

Just because people thought we might struggle this season doesn’t mean it would have been remotely acceptable to be in a relegation battle. Our aim should always be to get back into the top flight, and as supporters we shouldn’t accept that being one of the 26 best teams in the country is completely beyond us. It just goes to show how badly run we are that so many people are now really happy to accept mediocrity. Some even embrace it.

Waggott, Mowbray and everyone else make enough excuses of their own without us doing it for them. Injuries, FFP, parachute payments, referees or anything else aren’t the issue - being badly run from the top down is. We could have had the one single acceptable season since Venky’s came along, but it seems like we are going to throw the opportunity away.

Imagine if you gave a club, as well run as Accrington Stanley the resources Rovers have.

Assuming we are still in the championship next year, there is one division separating us and when you look at our ground, training facilities, support base and money being spent, it puts it in perspective.

2-3 out of 10 for me, but I wouldn't lay all the blame with the manger, as the next one will be similar if not worse.

[Guest]

A solid 3/10 from me. 

If he'd used players in their best / natural positions and looked to build a settled side playing week in week out instead of arsing around with tinkertactics we would without question have pissed this league.

Instead, we have all had to endure hair shirts and self-flagellation to the point of absolute misery, all because he hasn't got a flaming clue.

Actually, now I've thought about it again, I'm going for a -10 (minus ten for all you numerically challenged folks) because I'm pretty sure he's been doing this thing of holding our heads deep underwater deliberately all this time. 

It's time for it to stop.

Just get someone in who will flog the arse off the playing staff, get them doing their very best for the cause week in week out, and to hell in a handcart with all of this tactical bullshit.

WAGGOT OUT! MOWBRAY OUT! GURNING CHEATING LIARS OUT!! 

[arbitro]

24 minutes ago, Miller11 said:

I’m going to wait until the end of the season before I decide. Could be anywhere between a 3 and a 9.

As a slight aside though, I’m really sick of seeing people justifying our current collapse by saying “we are overachieving”.

Bollocks.

Just because people thought we might struggle this season doesn’t mean it would have been remotely acceptable to be in a relegation battle. Our aim should always be to get back into the top flight, and as supporters we shouldn’t accept that being one of the 26 best teams in the country is completely beyond us. It just goes to show how badly run we are that so many people are now really happy to accept mediocrity. Some even embrace it.

Waggott, Mowbray and everyone else make enough excuses of their own without us doing it for them. Injuries, FFP, parachute payments, referees or anything else aren’t the issue - being badly run from the top down is. We could have had the one single acceptable season since Venky’s came along, but it seems like we are going to throw the opportunity away.

I always think supporters who say we are over achieving just lack ambition and are in a comfort zone, happy to be mid table plodders. More than likely people who hide behind stats after every defeat and take Mowbrays word as Gospel.

[MarkBRFC]

4 hours ago, 1864roverite said:

I think you need to research the points gained once he took over the managers role. Coyle is the reason we were relegated and Coyle alone should be blamed.

 

We were two points adrift with 15 games to go. 

He got us out of the relegation zone twice during those 15 games and still slipped back in.

All he had to do was better the mighty Burton Albion's results over a 15 game period.

He was bought in to keep the club up as his number one objective, and he failed. Despite what his "PPG" record was in that season.

If he had kept us up that season, the majority who seem to support him now would have been fed up of him a long time ago.

Relegation was the best thing to happen to Mowbray, and the worst thing to happen to the club as it seems to have killed any ambition what so ever.

Edited March 23, 2022 by MarkBRFC

[Oldgregg86]

2 hours ago, Mellor Rover said:

4/10.

In terms of playing staff, he'll leave us in not too dissimilar situation to that he inherited in terms of lack of quality. Lenihan, Nyambe and Rothwell will be gone, Diaz sold and we'll need at least 8 new players to even be competitive next year.

Started the season back up very well. Season after was terrible. Should've got playoffs last season with that squad, looked like relegation at one point, should've cruised playoffs this time, but will finish 10th. 

Having said that, I loved the League One season, but we were promoted due to Dack/Graham/Mulgrew more than we were TM. Play 4 strikers in that league and you'll win more games than you lose.

His reluctance to buy defenders, or anyone in fact, when well placed in January every season is weird. A striker and CM this season and we'd have made playoffs. End of discussion.

The Harrison Reed situation, as well as the very public fall outs between him and Travis on more than one occasion sums up his time here perfectly. So does the constant tinkering/playing players out of position just to get them in the team. The players who have CONSISTENTLY been played out of position, to list but a few:

Elliott Bennett

Jack Rodwell

Harrison Reed

Dack false 9

Adam Armstrong

Gallagher

BBD

Buckley

Antonsson

Giles

All off the top of my head. That's consistently played out of position too, not mentioning the instances such as Khadra RWB on Saturday.

He can't help himself and it will always be his undoing at this level and above. Against Reading all we needed to do was play 4-3-3, let everyone know exactly where they're playing and try beat them. We want for a 5 out of possession/4 in possession/unless it was on the right then it was 5 again weird hybrid formation and ultimately nobody had a clue what to do. Next man in may well be an uninspiring Tony Pulis type appointment, but we will need that type of head for the next couple of seasons because a huge rebuild is required, once again.

 

 

 

Don’t forget Smallwood at wba 😁

[1864roverite]

29 minutes ago, MarkBRFC said:

We were two points adrift with 15 games to go. 

He got us out of the relegation zone twice during those 15 games and still slipped back in.

All he had to do was better the mighty Burton Albion's results over a 15 game period.

He was bought in to keep the club up as his number one objective, and he failed. Despite what his "PPG" record was in that season.

If he had kept us up that season, the majority who seem to support him now would have been fed up of him a long time ago.

Relegation was the best thing to happen to Mowbray, and the worst thing to happen to the club as it seems to have killed any ambition what so ever.

The damage had already been done prior to him coming look at the points we lost during coyles sad reign at the club

Edited March 23, 2022 by 1864roverite

[davulsukur]

I'd sum it up in a word:

Frustrating.

6/10 but falling from 2nd to outside the playoffs altogether will be downgraded to a 5.

He came in and very nearly (and any other season I think) we would have stayed up. Ok things he could have done differently in hindsight. 

However, even the league one campaign, despite gaining promotion was an insight into his thinking and some things back then still happen now. He tried to be too clever with it and we got turned over by Doncaster and someone else shocking. It felt like he stumbled on his best formation/setup rather than anything else and there were games when we were poor but the quality of players (Mulgrew getting 15ish goals from CB!!) Bailed him out a few times.

Since then the season is a repeated and thoroughly predictable pattern. We have some some shocking stat about winning about 2 games in February over the last 5 years. 

We still only really get 1 good half of football out of the team in a game and some of the decisions are bonkers (see Bradley Johnson as a false 9 for a start) which leave us on the back foot before switching it round to something more sensible.

Frustrating sums it up, because despite all the above, he's still managed mid table finishes, if he cut out half of his nonsense, who knows where we could end up. 

I'll be glad to see the back of him (albeit wary that Venkys are terrible) but can appreciate that he has done good things here. It'll always be a case of what we could have achieved had he not been so stubborn with stupid decisions.

[Herbie6590]

2 hours ago, Miller11 said:

I’m going to wait until the end of the season before I decide. Could be anywhere between a 3 and a 9.

As a slight aside though, I’m really sick of seeing people justifying our current collapse by saying “we are overachieving”.

Bollocks.

Just because people thought we might struggle this season doesn’t mean it would have been remotely acceptable to be in a relegation battle. Our aim should always be to get back into the top flight, and as supporters we shouldn’t accept that being one of the 26 best teams in the country is completely beyond us. It just goes to show how badly run we are that so many people are now really happy to accept mediocrity. Some even embrace it.

Waggott, Mowbray and everyone else make enough excuses of their own without us doing it for them. Injuries, FFP, parachute payments, referees or anything else aren’t the issue - being badly run from the top down is. We could have had the one single acceptable season since Venky’s came along, but it seems like we are going to throw the opportunity away.

On the point of “overachievement”…there is a strong correlation between wage bill and league position…I’ll let the statisticians argue causation.

https://sqaf.club/how-much-do-championship-players-earn/

Anything higher than 17th therefore could be argued as overachievement.

[arbitro]

7 minutes ago, Herbie6590 said:

On the point of “overachievement”…there is a strong correlation between wage bill and league position…I’ll let the statisticians argue causation.

https://sqaf.club/how-much-do-championship-players-earn/

Anything higher than 17th therefore could be argued as overachievement.

Five of the bottom seven are either in or challenging for a playoff place. I think such a table would be more at home in the PL but in the Championship it's more of a level playing field from a purely football only perspective. I really believe that a far bigger factor is the management team on and off the field and standard of coaching.

[Mattyblue]

And these figures have been validated? 
 

PNE… and *Blackpool* with substantially higher wage bills than us? Millwall and PNE with higher wage bills than Boro?

Of course we are nowhere near being big boys when it comes to salaries these days, but still dubious with the accuracy of that table.

Edited March 23, 2022 by Mattyblue

[MarkBRFC]

57 minutes ago, 1864roverite said:

The damage had already been done prior to him coming look at the points we lost during coyles sad reign at the club

I don't disagree Coyle was the main contributer.

As i said though, we were two points adrift with 15 games to go. Hardly a lost cause.

For how good some seem to think Mowbray is he should have gotten us out of it.

[riverholmes]

I question Mowbray's record of nurturing of youth talent, especially of late. Rovers currently have five "homegrown" players in the side in Wharton, Travis, Nyambe, Lenihan and Buckley. Lenihan might be the doubt for this category, as I'm not sure he would have played for the U18s. 

Where are the next academy/U23s youngsters who will save us millions in the market next summer and fill the spaces left by the inevitable exodus, should we remain in the league? Of the U23s side that finished 5th, I think, in the top league last year, no-one is currently close. 

Hayden Carter is doing well on loan and may come through but all else have fallen by the wayside. A few suffered serious injuries such as Whitehall and Barnes. The only hopes that I can see to come through at the moment are Jack Vale, Jake Garrett and, perhaps, Cirino, who is also injured. But none of these are close to being the next Travis or Nyambe.

From the U18 age group, Adam Wharton and Ash Phillips have made it on the bench on occasion but they are likely to young to be expected to make a real impact next year - though, given the exodus that may happen, we may end up turning to these sort of players.

Rovers have, I feel, failed the U23s by not getting them decent league loan experience in the league. No one was allowed to go on loan in the summer, save Chapman, I believe. McBride was in demand at the time but wasn't allowed to go and now is at Queen's Park.

Then outside of the transfer window, players headed out to non-league level. I don't understand what Rovers were thinking devaluing a Welsh U21 prospect, in Vale, by sending him out to Halifax, albeit on a half season loan. The one month loans for players like Sam Burns were even more absurd, to my mind, given that playing 3 games for FC United does next to nothing for the player or Rovers, as far as I see it. When the window opened, Scunthorpe have taken him on and though he's not pulled up trees, he's at least playing league football and scored a few goals in a crisis club.

Mowbray definitely persevered with Buckley and deserves some credit for that - though I question whether he is now hindering his development by fielding him in this lone No.10 role which he's now struggling with, to the point of being dropped.

Wharton got his chance in defence after an age and numerous excellent loan spells in L1 and L2. Mowbray refused to use him and denigrated the loan promotions with Northampton and others, favouring Derrick Williams and others, until injuries, I believe, forced his hand. I think we are lucky that Wharton didn't walk after being overlooked for so long.

Aside from Buckley and, perhaps, JRC, of late, I see Mowbray engaging in excessive short-termism, possibly, sensing his job is on the line. He wanted to keep Elliot Bennett. He favours Brad Johnson as his back-up CM/CB. He'd rather loan a Prem youth player and boast about polishing them up than doing so with a Garrett or a Vale, even though, we need that progression if we are to be sustainable as a club.

If we go up, Mowbray will justifiably argue the gamble paid off. If we don't we're going to have a greatly weakened squad and will rely on big sales to try and rebuild.

Edited March 23, 2022 by riverholmes

[roversfan99]

One thing I don't think that Mowbray can be accused of is not providing a pathway for the younger players. I think our team is the second youngest in the league or at least has been this year.

The likes of Buckley, Travis and Wharton have not only been dipped in and out but have become regulars under him. Dolan is regularly involved possibly beyond a reliance that we should have on someone so raw, Rankin Costello is regularly involved albeit I am not convinced that he is any good, and obviously players previously through the academy previously have now become senior members that we can't even afford to keep.

Football is a results business, you should always have an eye on the long term but you can't jeopardise your ability to lose games in the short term. Johnson is important as a rare senior member whose experience is invaluable, you need players of experience to be involved too.

There becomes an unrealistic expectation based on those that have come through regarding how many of each crop of graduates that will likely come through every time, more often than not very few do. You look at the likes of Vale and Burns, they struggled at levels miles below what we are at. Phillips is only 16 and Wharton not much younger.

 

[RoversClitheroe]

1 out of 10 for me.

That 1 is for getting us back to where we should have been.

The rest however been embarrassing imo.