v Luton Town (a) - 17/9/22

[J*B]

I’ve just had a bucket load of Luton fans join the forum — has someone prodded a bear? 

[Hasta]

4 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

Firstly, you see how the game goes before making a formation change or bring Dack on. Clearly JDT didn't think Dack was the right player for that game situation or could impact the game. 

 But the game was going terribly and the formation / tactics were not working.   JDT obviously didn’t think Dack the right person for that situation, but the changes he did make had no positive impact. 
 

 I wouldn’t  start Dack next game. But if we are playing poorly and desperately need to create openings and need to score a goal I’d certainly be giving him a chance as we know first hand what he can do. 

[Hasta]

Duplicate post

Edited September 19, 2022 by Hasta

[bazza]

Decimated post.

[tomphil]

After the days of deep sitting Evans and headless Lowe plus others Mowbray went some way to getting the midfield at bit stronger.  Helped of course by the emergence of Travis but now it seems as weak as it was way back then, teams get through too easy.

[joey_big_nose]

1 hour ago, Atko's Engine said:

I have stuck that in my pipe & am smoking it humbly as I type.

Every day's a school day!

Actually turns out I was the one schooled by MB, Sweaty Gussets and DE. The modern use of decimated to mean "greatly reduced" is in all the dictionaries, I just had a look. Mea Culpa. Theres something uniquely tragic about the pedant who turns out to be wrong.

(But it's literally got 'deci' in it! *shakes fist*)

Edited September 19, 2022 by joey_big_nose

[booth]

5 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

I don't agree with your viewpoint on Hirst but he is 23 years old and I see a player who lack match fitness and need to understand how we want to play. He can finish from what I seen watching clips and makes some good runs. 

I would start him in the Millwall game up front.

It was more than just a viewpoint on Hirst, it was a viewpoint on our striking options on the whole. I'm not sure how anyone could be happy with frontline options of BBD, Gallagher, Hirst and Vale. BBD and Gallagher aren't being used as strikers anyway. So we've got Hirst and Vale. That's woefully inadequate.

A total of 0 Championship goals between the two of them. We needed another striker.

Edited September 19, 2022 by booth

[tomphil]

1 hour ago, J*B said:

I’ve just had a bucket load of Luton fans join the forum — has someone prodded a bear? 

Where are they ?

[Upside Down]

1 hour ago, J*B said:

I’ve just had a bucket load of Luton fans join the forum — has someone prodded a bear? 

How else are you supposed to get them to dance?

[Atko's Engine]

21 minutes ago, joey_big_nose said:

Actually turns out I was the one schooled by MB, Sweaty Gussets and DE. The modern use of decimated to mean "greatly reduced" is in all the dictionaries, I just had a look. Mea Culpa. Theres something uniquely tragic about the pedant who turns out to be wrong.

(But it's literally got 'deci' in it! *shakes fist*)

M_B & Sweaty Gussets have been trying to school me all weekend; don't listen to them, they don't know as much as they think they do!!

😅

[chaddyrovers]

16 hours ago, Hasta said:

 But the game was going terribly and the formation / tactics were not working.   JDT obviously didn’t think Dack the right person for that situation, but the changes he did make had no positive impact. 
 

 I wouldn’t  start Dack next game. But if we are playing poorly and desperately need to create openings and need to score a goal I’d certainly be giving him a chance as we know first hand what he can do. 

I don't think it was the formation not working but we couldn't cope with Luton's intensity and when they upped their levels we didn't up ours which disappointed me. 

Yes I would change formation to 4-2-3-1 or even go 4-3-3 to match their midfield 3.  

16 hours ago, booth said:

It was more than just a viewpoint on Hirst, it was a viewpoint on our striking options on the whole. I'm not sure how anyone could be happy with frontline options of BBD, Gallagher, Hirst and Vale. BBD and Gallagher aren't being used as strikers anyway. So we've got Hirst and Vale. That's woefully inadequate.

A total of 0 Championship goals between the two of them. We needed another striker.

BBD isn't main striker but he plays from the left, he prefers that role and his best scoring form comes from that. 

I don't think we needed another striker at all. Hirst has played around 96 mins so far in 3 games. Let's give him some time to learn how we want to play. I'm convince he will come good for us. Let's get him working with Rovers coaches over the next couple of weeks so he can hit the ground running in October. Vale is developing here and I'm pleased we kept him here instead of loaning out. 

On Gallagher, JDT seems to like playing him wide right but I would be open to selling him this January or next summer

[booth]

26 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

BBD isn't main striker but he plays from the left, he prefers that role and his best scoring form comes from that. 

 

I don't think we needed another striker at all. Hirst has played around 96 mins so far in 3 games. Let's give him some time to learn how we want to play. I'm convince he will come good for us. Let's get him working with Rovers coaches over the next couple of weeks so he can hit the ground running in October. Vale is developing here and I'm pleased we kept him here instead of loaning out. 

On Gallagher, JDT seems to like playing him wide right but I would be open to selling him this January or next summer

I know that's why I said what I said.

We do need another striker, we'll see when we get to January and we're all lamenting how there isn't enough goals in the team. Like we did when last season ended.

[smiller14]

Seen some talk about 'exciting football' this season, but to me any excitement has been few and far between.

The wins vs QPR and Swansea were based on good organisation (and two poor oppositions), but they certainly weren't exciting, as delighted as I was with both results. Swansea we scored 3 but were extremely clinical - not that this is a criticism.

Other than those games, we've beat West Brom (didn't watch it but sounded all hands on deck), Blackpool (played some really nice stuff there) and Watford (likewise, really good performance).

At the same time, we've put in some truly rotten performances. Bristol City, Luton and Reading stand out - the latter 2 are as bad as anything I've seen in years following Rovers. 

I'm still yet to see a really clearly defined style of play since we made the managerial shift, at least not consistently. More likely to play it out from the back, a few triangles, but lacking the fluidity and adventurousness that had previously been discussed. It'll take time and I'm not criticising JDT or expecting miracles, but it has to be said that the Luton/Reading games could easily be the 2 most toothless performances I've seen from us at this level. In neither game did we lay a glove on the opposition or look like scoring. 

[SuperBrfc]

On 19/09/2022 at 11:14, roverstdt said:

Once again taking out of context, you say that the team hasn’t shown anything to prove we are pushing for promotion, we are 7th!!! We are in the dam mix of clubs fighting for the play off so my comment about Top or nothing proves exactly that. It proves you are willing to throw your toy out of pram. Go pick them up and calm down, you are judging our entire season on 10 games I mean Jesus Christ taking the cups into account JDT is a far higher win ratio to Mowbray if you want to compare and contrast a whole performance after 10 games. 

you are saying the club is happY with mediocrity, show me how you know this? Have you been on the board? Have you heard them say ahhhh guys let’s stay here for the next 15 years and chill. No you haven’t, inconsistencies happen in a dam season we are not the invincible’s. I have been to the two most horrendous away games being Luton and Reading so trust me I know first what it is to watch rubbish. Am I going to cry about it? No, I move on to the next game and expect a reaction. If we win we are back in the top six again. Give the man a chance see after half a season where are at, if you throw some toys I will order them for you To chuck out.

 

i what point did I say I didn’t want to win? Of course but judging by your comment and dreaming if you expect us to win the EPL and roll over Man City. This is 2022 not 1990’s and I totally respect and understand the history of our club, where it should be but by no means just because of our history we deserve to be in the EPL of course i hope We get back up but we have had a good start to the season when many predicted we wouldn’t let’s see where it goes a season is not 2 months long 

 Ok, so let me get this right. In your last two posts you have said the following:

1) It is sad to see Rovers fans demand or expect a return to the Premier League based on our history. Fans perceive we deserve to be there because of our history, is what you said. That is your assumption. Most of us know we have to earn the right to get back there, but we do need to get back up there for the wellbeing of the club and because a lot of fans want to see Rovers back playing at the highest level. That does not mean toppling Man City for the title, before you assume that.

With your assumption that we "think we deserve to be there", you are calling me and others entitled. Tell me, at what point is it ok for forum members to talk about promotion, according to you? Or should we never mention it at all and just accept mid table mediocrity in this League?

2) You clearly said "I don't give a damn about the EPL" and that you prefer the Championship due to it's competitiveness. How have I taken that out of context?

3)You saw the horror shows at Luton and Reading and shrugged them off. On to the next game. That's fine, everybody reacts differently to defeats, but don't then try to tell those of us who are concerned by the manner of those defeats that we are 'crying' and throwing our toys out of the pram.

There are valid concerns that I and others have because they weren't one off bad defeats. They have repeated themselves against Sheff Utd, Reading, Bristol City and Luton and are likely to continue against similar opponents unless something changes in our approach to such games.

4) You say I have a 'first or nothing bro' belief and that us being 7th, and me being unhappy, proves that you are correct to think that. Firstly, you have misunderstood what I was saying when I said "they aren't serious about promotion". "They" was referring to the club hierarchy above the manager, not the team on the pitch. They (the hierarchy) have not been serious about promotion at any point in the last 10 years.

We were 2nd in January and they still weren't serious. JDT has come in, start of a new era, and look at the signings they have got in for him. JDT wanted quality and experience to come in, he hasn't been given that, even though they spent a bit. Brittain and Hyam are decent, but the rest? They (the hierarchy) still aren't serious about promotion, IMO. That's the point I was making when I said "they have to show us something", not the lads on the pitch as you assumed.

This idea of "first or nothing bro" has come from you assuming I am not happy with us in 7th place. 7th place doesn't mean much right now, yes it is better than expected, so that isn't an issue. Do you actually believe we are in the mix now? Because a few weeks ago you said we are far away from promotion, Buckley is our only creative player and that a mid table finish would be a good season. How is 7th in September of any relevance then?

I am not pissed off because we aren't top of the table as you suggest. I am pissed off about the project, which I don't believe will take us forward, I believe it takes us further away from promotion and will lead to more years being wasted. I am not happy about the transfer window business we have done and with Broughton being the man tasked with bringing players in.

As for me wanting Rovers to win and for a winning mentality to return, that obviously doesn't mean I demand first place and an invincibles season with us winning 46 games. I'm talking about some ambition and a will to win being shown from the top down, including JDT, and for us to make a genuine push for promotion by going out to win games. Being angered by pathetic defeats like the ones we have seen is not a crime.

We should be striving to win every game and promotion should be our objective with each season that we remain in this Division. Obviously, we won't win every game, yes the young lads will be inconsistent, but that's what you get when you choose to go with a youth project, and I won't be making excuses for that. The club chose this strategy.

5) Your question about how I know the club is happy with mediocrity and whether I have been in the boardroom or not. I can't believe that I have to answer that question. Aren't the last 10 years proof enough for you? The January window with us in 2nd is proof enough, as is the window just gone, when JDT hasn't got the players he wanted and we're resorting to playing kids because the strategy is all about pathways. This strategy, IMO, will not lead to winning enough games to win promotion. That is my argument, I could be proven wrong still, but you seem to think that even daring to mention promotion is wrong and that it's only based on history that it is being mentioned.

There's nothing wrong with having a desire to see Rovers back to how they once were. Even if fans feel we belong there, so what? How is that sad? That's a signal of having high standards for the club and not seeing it as some little car. For me, and it's my opinion only, none of JDT, Broughton or anybody else at the club are bigger or more important than the Football Club and it's success. If any of them are holding the club back or are not helping us to be successful, I will call them out, even if it isn't popular.

6) Finally, you just had to throw in the "it's not the 1990s anymore" in there, didn't you? I mean, why not, eh? I'm already entitled, I've already thrown my toys out of the pram, I'm crying because Rovers aren't playing like the Invincibles and now I need reminding that "it's not the 90s anymore".

I tell you what, when you drop them new toys off for me to throw from my pram, and I will need them for the January transfer window, I'll have a shirt waiting for you. A Sunderland shirt with '1 Mogga' on the back of it.

[tomphil]

On 19/09/2022 at 12:05, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

We’ve got a board ? Wow, when did that happen ? 

Beat me to i was going to ask what board is this i presume he means board of directors ?

Well good luck with that one.

Edited September 20, 2022 by tomphil

[bluebruce]

On 19/09/2022 at 18:28, Atko's Engine said:

I have stuck that in my pipe & am smoking it humbly as I type.

Every day's a school day!

Unstick your pipe. We don't live in Ancient Rome. Language evolves.

[roverstdt]

47 minutes ago, SuperBrfc said:

 Ok, so let me get this right. In your last two posts you have said the following:

1) It is sad to see Rovers fans demand or expect a return to the Premier League based on our history. Fans perceive we deserve to be there because of our history, is what you said. That is your assumption. Most of us know we have to earn the right to get back there, but we do need to get back up there for the wellbeing of the club and because a lot of fans want to see Rovers back playing at the highest level. That does not mean toppling Man City for the title, before you assume that.

With your assumption that we "think we deserve to be there", you are calling me and others entitled. Tell me, at what point is it ok for forum members to talk about promotion, according to you? Or should we never mention it at all and just accept mid table mediocrity in this League?

2) You clearly said "I don't give a damn about the EPL" and that you prefer the Championship due to it's competitiveness. How have I taken that out of context?

3)You saw the horror shows at Luton and Reading and shrugged them off. On to the next game. That's fine, everybody reacts differently to defeats, but don't then try to tell those of us who are concerned by the manner of those defeats that we are 'crying' and throwing our toys out of the pram.

There are valid concerns that I and others have because they weren't one off bad defeats. They have repeated themselves against Sheff Utd, Reading, Bristol City and Luton and are likely to continue against similar opponents unless something changes in our approach to such games.

4) You say I have a 'first or nothing bro' belief and that us being 7th, and me being unhappy, proves that you are correct to think that. Firstly, you have misunderstood what I was saying when I said "they aren't serious about promotion". "They" was referring to the club hierarchy above the manager, not the team on the pitch. They (the hierarchy) have not been serious about promotion at any point in the last 10 years.

We were 2nd in January and they still weren't serious. JDT has come in, start of a new era, and look at the signings they have got in for him. JDT wanted quality and experience to come in, he hasn't been given that, even though they spent a bit. Brittain and Hyam are decent, but the rest? They (the hierarchy) still aren't serious about promotion, IMO. That's the point I was making when I said "they have to show us something", not the lads on the pitch as you assumed.

This idea of "first or nothing bro" has come from you assuming I am not happy with us in 7th place. 7th place doesn't mean much right now, yes it is better than expected, so that isn't an issue. Do you actually believe we are in the mix now? Because a few weeks ago you said we are far away from promotion, Buckley is our only creative player and that a mid table finish would be a good season. How is 7th in September of any relevance then?

I am not pissed off because we aren't top of the table as you suggest. I am pissed off about the project, which I don't believe will take us forward, I believe it takes us further away from promotion and will lead to more years being wasted. I am not happy about the transfer window business we have done and with Broughton being the man tasked with bringing players in.

As for me wanting Rovers to win and for a winning mentality to return, that obviously doesn't mean I demand first place and an invincibles season with us winning 46 games. I'm talking about some ambition and a will to win being shown from the top down, including JDT, and for us to make a genuine push for promotion by going out to win games. Being angered by pathetic defeats like the ones we have seen is not a crime.

We should be striving to win every game and promotion should be our objective with each season that we remain in this Division. Obviously, we won't win every game, yes the young lads will be inconsistent, but that's what you get when you choose to go with a youth project, and I won't be making excuses for that. The club chose this strategy.

5) Your question about how I know the club is happy with mediocrity and whether I have been in the boardroom or not. I can't believe that I have to answer that question. Aren't the last 10 years proof enough for you? The January window with us in 2nd is proof enough, as is the window just gone, when JDT hasn't got the players he wanted and we're resorting to playing kids because the strategy is all about pathways. This strategy, IMO, will not lead to winning enough games to win promotion. That is my argument, I could be proven wrong still, but you seem to think that even daring to mention promotion is wrong and that it's only based on history that it is being mentioned.

There's nothing wrong with having a desire to see Rovers back to how they once were. Even if fans feel we belong there, so what? How is that sad? That's a signal of having high standards for the club and not seeing it as some little car. For me, and it's my opinion only, none of JDT, Broughton or anybody else at the club are bigger or more important than the Football Club and it's success. If any of them are holding the club back or are not helping us to be successful, I will call them out, even if it isn't popular.

6) Finally, you just had to throw in the "it's not the 1990s anymore" in there, didn't you? I mean, why not, eh? I'm already entitled, I've already thrown my toys out of the pram, I'm crying because Rovers aren't playing like the Invincibles and now I need reminding that "it's not the 90s anymore".

I tell you what, when you drop them new toys off for me to throw from my pram, and I will need them for the January transfer window, I'll have a shirt waiting for you. A Sunderland shirt with '1 Mogga' on the back of it.

Would rather a Bowyer Shirt with "Right Good Go" written on the back. 😛 

Mate I understand the frustration, and yes to me mid table would still represent an okay season nothing exceptional. We have lost way too many players for a squad reform and finds its balance. I personally believe next season is the chance to really have a strong go, we have the foundations to build something special. The young players will have 30+ game under their belts, Travis, Bucko, Wharton will develop further and I would far more confidence in the team. 

I appreciate you taking the time writing everything back and I will admit you did make me chuckle on some of the answer (I mean that in a positive way, not taking the piss way) 

I would argue they are serious about promotion because we did get promoted in the last 10 years and we kept the squad together to take a financial hit to get back up, so they have proved under the right environment money does flow in. Not necessarily the amount we would like but it does come in. 

I Personally do believe in projects and long terms visions and having a philosophy which you can build upon and bring the right players in across several windows is vital to be able to do that. I never said you can't use the word promotion, I just believe the expectation of promotion this year is totally unrealistic. Having a fan where people pull together is important and yes you are entitled to your own opinion as do I it is what makes football so entertaining hell you and I are writing chaptered answers to one another which i am enjoying!

To summarise: 

with regards to point 1 I never said you were entitled I just believe the expectation is too high given the quality of the squad we have. 

Point 2) Is taking out of context 1 sentence as a summary of my whole response. 

Point 3) Agreed, so far the squad hasn't learned how to react to those situation but they tend to show they rebound well, but I agree with you this is something they need to develop but like anything in development it needs time. 

Part 4) i would argue to early to discuss quality of the signings some have barely played so i can't comment on how great of a signing Hirst until half the season once again needs time to evaluate. 

Part 5) answered above

Part 6) Always an easy thing to throw in the 90's! 

 

 

[chaddyrovers]

9 hours ago, booth said:

I know that's why I said what I said.

We do need another striker, we'll see when we get to January and we're all lamenting how there isn't enough goals in the team. Like we did when last season ended.

We have to agree to disagree with you. I would only bring in another striker If Gallagher left

[SuperBrfc]

3 hours ago, roverstdt said:

Would rather a Bowyer Shirt with "Right Good Go" written on the back. 😛 

Mate I understand the frustration, and yes to me mid table would still represent an okay season nothing exceptional. We have lost way too many players for a squad reform and finds its balance. I personally believe next season is the chance to really have a strong go, we have the foundations to build something special. The young players will have 30+ game under their belts, Travis, Bucko, Wharton will develop further and I would far more confidence in the team. 

I appreciate you taking the time writing everything back and I will admit you did make me chuckle on some of the answer (I mean that in a positive way, not taking the piss way) 

I would argue they are serious about promotion because we did get promoted in the last 10 years and we kept the squad together to take a financial hit to get back up, so they have proved under the right environment money does flow in. Not necessarily the amount we would like but it does come in. 

I Personally do believe in projects and long terms visions and having a philosophy which you can build upon and bring the right players in across several windows is vital to be able to do that. I never said you can't use the word promotion, I just believe the expectation of promotion this year is totally unrealistic. Having a fan where people pull together is important and yes you are entitled to your own opinion as do I it is what makes football so entertaining hell you and I are writing chaptered answers to one another which i am enjoying!

To summarise: 

with regards to point 1 I never said you were entitled I just believe the expectation is too high given the quality of the squad we have. 

Point 2) Is taking out of context 1 sentence as a summary of my whole response. 

Point 3) Agreed, so far the squad hasn't learned how to react to those situation but they tend to show they rebound well, but I agree with you this is something they need to develop but like anything in development it needs time. 

Part 4) i would argue to early to discuss quality of the signings some have barely played so i can't comment on how great of a signing Hirst until half the season once again needs time to evaluate. 

Part 5) answered above

Part 6) Always an easy thing to throw in the 90's! 

 

 

No problem mate. I apologise if my responses came across as being over the top. That's not what I was intending, it's just reading certain things about promotion sets me off.

It seems like I might have misread what you were trying to say on the promotion matter though, so maybe I shouldn't have got so wound up and been blunt in response, so apologies for that.

As you will know, the frustration of a 10 year wait to make it back to the Premier League, with us not really being close to doing it in all that time makes it an emotive subject. It pains me, as it likely will you and many others, to see what the club has been reduced to by these owners.

The thought of potentially waiting 2 to 3 years more now as we see what this project leads to adds to the frustration for me. I guess where our opinion differs is that you believe in the project and are hopeful it will deliver in time, which you are entitled to obviously, whereas I am of the opposite view.

I guess I have no choice but to wait and see how it goes. I can't be saying 'Broughton Out' on here every week, it will likely cause a virtual riot on here one day 😁.

Oh and can I still have my toys? I would like a Buzz Lightyear action figure and the Little Green Men and you can have the Bowyer shirt in return. We can revisit the deal in January, if you wish.

 

[Upside Down]

Since the deliberate relegation from the Premier League there has never been any attempt made to get back there.

They have never been serious about promotion. 

[booth]

19 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

We have to agree to disagree with you. I would only bring in another striker If Gallagher left

If Gallagher and BBD went you mean? If so you're happy to replace the both of them with one striker? Between them they scored 31 goals.

Unless you're expecting BBD to sign another contract?

[chaddyrovers]

2 hours ago, booth said:

If Gallagher and BBD went you mean? If so you're happy to replace the both of them with one striker? Between them they scored 31 goals.

Unless you're expecting BBD to sign another contract?

I don't see BBD has a main striker like I have said mainly times, I would sign a left side attacking player when he goes next summer. I have also said quite clear for over 3 weeks that I think BBD will sign a pre contract with Spanish club and move there next summer. 

whilst I see Gallagher, Hirst and Vale has strikers and not wide attackers

[Butty]

2 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

I don't see BBD has a main striker like I have said mainly times, I would sign a left side attacking player when he goes next summer. I have also said quite clear for over 3 weeks that I think BBD will sign a pre contract with Spanish club and move there next summer. 

whilst I see Gallagher, Hirst and Vale has strikers and not wide attackers

Think when BBD goes we’ll definitely need to bring in another left sided attacker and another out and out striker, depending on how Hirst gets on 🙂 

[booth]

3 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

I don't see BBD has a main striker like I have said mainly times, I would sign a left side attacking player when he goes next summer. I have also said quite clear for over 3 weeks that I think BBD will sign a pre contract with Spanish club and move there next summer. 

whilst I see Gallagher, Hirst and Vale has strikers and not wide attackers

I didn't say you did, but he is our top goalscorer.

If we signed a left sided attacking player and a striker, the likelihood is that the left sided attacking player will not score as many goals as BBD did in the first half of last season. So we'd lose BBD's goals, Gallagher's 9 goal contribution and hope that the new guy can score enough to cover the exodus of both players.

That's why I think it'd be a good idea to sign a good left sided player and two strikers. Finally we'd have a replacement for Armstrong too.

[chaddyrovers]

2 hours ago, booth said:

I didn't say you did, but he is our top goalscorer.

If we signed a left sided attacking player and a striker, the likelihood is that the left sided attacking player will not score as many goals as BBD did in the first half of last season. So we'd lose BBD's goals, Gallagher's 9 goal contribution and hope that the new guy can score enough to cover the exodus of both players.

That's why I think it'd be a good idea to sign a good left sided player and two strikers. Finally we'd have a replacement for Armstrong too.

I would sign a new striker, attacking left side player and that would be hit. I have assume we have sign Hirst permanent that why we only 1 striker next summer, but that's a long way off so let's focus on this season for now

Edited September 22, 2022 by chaddyrovers