Valérien Ismaël: Blackburn Rovers Head Coach

[RevidgeBlue]

11 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Similar to how you have twisted Mowbray going out of his way to stop the owners from investing loads of money or wanting to sell 6 months worth of a Rothwell who downed tools in order to get a couple of new players in another season where the owners had turned the taps off.

Well, there are more certainties to life than death and taxes, as soon as I mention the words "Waggott" "Mowbray" or "Gallagher" you charge in on your trusty white steed to defend them faster than Nicko comes in with a good news story now to deflect unrest whenever the **** hits the fan.

Views on Rothwell vary, for me you don't sell a key player to your main rivals in that situation under any circumstances. One of the few things Venky's ever got right.

I do find it bizarre though you continue to deny the fact that Mowbray dissuaded the owners from spending after promotion from League 1. Even though he cheerfully admitted it himself in the local rag.

[RevidgeBlue]

Dear Rovers Fans

For Christmas this year you can have

EITHER

A pitch that lasts 90 mins whenever it rains

OR

2 or 3 more players who aren't good enough for the Championship.

No, really, don't mention it. No need to thank us, it's what we do!

Love Rudy, Pash, Val and the rest of the Rovers Crew.

x

[roversfan99]

24 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Well, there are more certainties to life than death and taxes, as soon as I mention the words "Waggott" "Mowbray" or "Gallagher" you charge in on your trusty white steed to defend them faster than Nicko comes in with a good news story now to deflect unrest whenever the **** hits the fan.

Views on Rothwell vary, for me you don't sell a key player to your main rivals in that situation under any circumstances. One of the few things Venky's ever got right.

I do find it bizarre though you continue to deny the fact that Mowbray dissuaded the owners from spending after promotion from League 1. Even though he cheerfully admitted it himself in the local rag.

But on Ismael, he has come out publically when we all expected him to bat it off/blame the ref/authorities has had a go at the embarassment caused by those above him instead. I am not a fan of Ismael to be honest. And you arent. But I can acknowledge that I like that he has done that as an individual thing rather than twisting it.

The owners (if it was specifically them) shouldnt be interfering with matters they cant possibly be in the best position to judge. But especially with hindsight, I cant fathom how not selling a player for £4m who (and the owners wouldnt be aware of this) had downed tools to exchange for 2 new players who could benefit us both short and long term would be deemed as a positive.

The spending thing, you are twisting it as if they were ready and waiting to go on a spending spree, similar to how you regularly suggest that they are/were "pumping in £20m" a season as if its anything other than something they have to do to cover the losses all Championship clubs incur.

18 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Dear Rovers Fans

For Christmas this year you can have

EITHER

A pitch that lasts 90 mins whenever it rains

OR

2 or 3 more players who aren't good enough for the Championship.

No, really, don't mention it. No need to thank us, it's what we do!

Love Rudy, Pash, Val and the rest of the Rovers Crew.

x

And most importantly, the owners. Dont forget that.

[RevidgeBlue]

I should have added the caveat that the 2 or 3 players wont be outright additions but will be cheaper replacements for ones sold.

Edited 10 hours ago by RevidgeBlue

[RevidgeBlue]

5 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

And most importantly, the owners. Dont forget that.

If Pasha has even referred the matter back to the owners or is intending to.

Hypothetically, if a £2m transfer budget had been set for January (we had a c £2m surplus in summer remember) Ismael has just given him the perfect excuse not to bother them.

[Aqualung]

When Val eventually leaves Rovers I would love to get him, JDT and Eustace in a room. Fuck the NDA and let them tell us what their thoughts are. 

Could be interesting. 

[roversfan99]

7 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

If Pasha has even referred the matter back to the owners or is intending to.

Hypothetically, if a £2m transfer budget had been set for January (we had a c £2m surplus in summer remember) Ismael has just given him the perfect excuse not to bother them.

Its not in any way an excuse. It wouldnt excuse cutting the budget somehow even further. 

My issue all along is that you consistently look to deflect away from the owners. You do criticise them at times to an extent but there are often mitigating circumstances. One being the suggestion that its just that they repeatedly havent been asked for money, year after year. By numerous individuals, numerous times.

[RevidgeBlue]

5 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Its not in any way an excuse. It wouldnt excuse cutting the budget somehow even further. 

My issue all along is that you consistently look to deflect away from the owners. You do criticise them at times to an extent but there are often mitigating circumstances. One being the suggestion that its just that they repeatedly havent been asked for money, year after year. By numerous individuals, numerous times.

The suggestion that Pasha doesn't like bothering them has been made numerous times on here by various individuals. Neither of us know for certain whether they have or haven't been asked at specific stages.

That's not deflecting blame away from the owners, they should be hands on and invested enough in matters to be broadly aware of what's going on at the Club without having to be told everything that happens by Pasha.

However I suspect that apart from a brief burst of enthusiasm after we got promoted from League 1 that's never really been the case. Im surprised you think they're particularly hands on, I suspect they set a budget at the start of the season and apart from receiving routine briefings that's the extent of their involvement unless an emergency crops up.

[RevidgeBlue]

17 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Its not in any way an excuse. It wouldnt excuse cutting the budget somehow even further. 

The Head Coach has made public the view that he doesn't mind if funding is diverted away from transfers and into sorting out the pitch.

Of course it's an excuse they'll latch on to.

[roversfan99]

1 hour ago, RevidgeBlue said:

The suggestion that Pasha doesn't like bothering them has been made numerous times on here by various individuals. Neither of us know for certain whether they have or haven't been asked at specific stages.

That's not deflecting blame away from the owners, they should be hands on and invested enough in matters to be broadly aware of what's going on at the Club without having to be told everything that happens by Pasha.

However I suspect that apart from a brief burst of enthusiasm after we got promoted from League 1 that's never really been the case. Im surprised you think they're particularly hands on, I suspect they set a budget at the start of the season and apart from receiving routine briefings that's the extent of their involvement unless an emergency crops up.

But I dont think its an unfair suggestion to say that you have defended and deflected away from the owners over the years. You often become too fixated with individuals and then anything that happens, you pin it all on them, even at times if theyve left the club. The perfect example is how often you say that they pump x amount in a year, but dont respond when questioned on it. Them raising shares or incurring debt to offset standard Championship losses is mandatory, it doesnt correlate with willingness or ambition. Repeatedly suggesting/speculating that the owners havent been asked for things pins most of the blame on an individual employee. It seems a far reach to think that so many different people simply all didnt ask for money at various stages.

Suhail is different to the various other members of staff that have been here over the past 15 years, in that hes essentially an extension of Venkys. He was a Venkys person before he gained any power here. His primary focus is to support Venkys objectives, which focus on cutting losses and conflict with Rovers objectives, and he knows his job is always 100% safe. All of the others have been employed specifically as Rovers employees, none of whom could have 100% job security.

The others, no matter how incompetent do not fall into that same dangerous category. No matter how incompetent they are or were, and regardless of if they ever tried to strengthen the stabilitt of their own job.

I think you misconstrue what I say as me sticking up for Waggott, for Mowbray, for Broughton etc. Its not what I am doing. I am not comfortable with giving them such big chunks of the blame in a way that alleviates the blame away from the problem and the common denominator throughout these 15 years. Suhail has been the biggest symptom of all but even he isnt THE problem.

1 hour ago, RevidgeBlue said:

The Head Coach has made public the view that he doesn't mind if funding is diverted away from transfers and into sorting out the pitch.

Of course it's an excuse they'll latch on to.

An excuse to who though? If anyone defends the owners for again cutting costs on account of a throwaway comment of a pissed off manager stressing the importance of not having a pitch in working order, then they clearly are not very bright.

[NeilInBristol]

3 hours ago, RevidgeBlue said:

The Head Coach has made public the view that he doesn't mind if funding is diverted away from transfers and into sorting out the pitch.

Of course it's an excuse they'll latch on to.

He is a yes man and he knows and the club knows that they can use this as an excuse as to why not invest any money into players and he’s making it sound like he is sacrificing the needs of the team for the club to have a playable pitch, like we can’t have both!! Joke

9 hours ago, wilsdenrover said:

I’m surprised he thinks there is a transfer budget. 

He knows there isn’t he is using this as an excuse! Once we buy no players they can say it’s because we used money on the pitch repairs which he said he was happy to do it’s all a con

9 hours ago, aletheia said:

 

Did Val already know that no new money would be forthcoming in January and thus his plea for a pitch remedy instead of transfer money is straight out of the club playbook as Rev says?

 

Yes he knows they won’t give him a transfer budget hence saying he would be up for sacrificing it for the pitch repairs- all a con

9 hours ago, Tomphil2 said:

He's not daft, this time next year when we are struggling again no doubt having decimated the squad further to cut costs he's already got his excuse in.

Then Gestede will say fans should be grateful the owners provide a pitch fit to play Sat/Tues.

Exactly!!!!

[NeilInBristol]

"If I can influence something, if we need to save money in the transfer market to add money to get a new pitch, I will be the first person to [do] it because I want to see fans coming into the stadium to make sure they can see the game.

"If I have to make that sacrifice for the better of the club, I will do it."
 

 

sorry I don’t buy this BS 

why VI do we have to sacrifice our transfers? Why is that an option? Are are you saying the club doesn’t have money coming from the owners? Why not? 

They are not under embargo so not the same excuse as last year 

we sold so many players recently

why are you making it about players vs maintaining the pitch 

both are equally important and both are the responsibility of the owners

 

 

[NeilInBristol]

6 hours ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Perhaps VI knows his job is safe whatever happens and (like Suhail and Gestede) isnt bothered whether we stay up or go down.

Therefore might as well do the pitch.

Yes exactly!! He is safe

he is fine

he he can actually say whatever he wants as long as he gets the message out that there will be no investment in the squad because the money is now needed for the pitch, no doubt this will be used for a few windows. 

The club will have to fix the pitch now either to avoid fine or further negative attention, further abandonments, which will probably be costly especially with the injuries etc etc so they will be forced to repair the pitch or at least spend money on investigating and reports etc which he and Rudy etc can now justify why we have no money for transfers

getting VI to make it seem like there is now no money for transfers is genius from their perspective 

Don’t fall for the BS that comes out of the club

[RevidgeBlue]

2 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

The perfect example is how often you say that they pump x amount in a year

I think you misconstrue what I say as me sticking up for Waggott, for Mowbray, for Broughton etc. Its not what I am doing. I am not comfortable with giving them such big chunks of the blame in a way that alleviates the blame away from the problem and the common denominator throughout these 15 years. Suhail has been the biggest symptom of all but even he isnt THE problem.

They do or certainly did before the Court case "pump in" £x m p.a.  

I know they didnt and still don't deserve massive credit for that as it was only really covering losses at the level they chose to run at at the time. However you seemed  to trivialise that financial support to the point where you almost pretended it wasn't occurring. 

They could for example have chosen to fund the Club from the very beginning at the sort of subsistence levels we are seeing now. I mean quite some time again now they were paying Mulgrew £20 k p.w to play for various League 1 Clubs after Mowbray fell out with him. Now we seemingly have a blanket wage cap of £10k p.w. for new players, even for the best first teamers.

What you seem unable to grasp is that whether you like or loathe the owners, and no matter how calamitous their ownership had been previously, that original level of financial support provided was very significant and not to be sniffed at. Not many owners would have been able to provide that level of support without blinking and had we had better people on the ground over the years it should have yielded far more success. Responsibility for not employing the right calibre of people lies fairly and squarely with the owners of course. So ultimately any respect for the amount of money they were putting in is largely cancelled out by the fact they were ultimately pissing their money up the wall. Yet there was always that faint hope that if they could get the right people in........ What we needed was a JDT or a Eustace in for a decent period on Mowbray levels of support. Unfortunately it never quite happened and seemingly never will now under their ownership.

I know we dont  agree on this, so there's no point going back and forth endlessly like you and chaddy do.

As you are uncomfortable with me at times, I'm similarly uncomfortable with your seeming desperation to exonerate anyone on the ground from any blame at all. Imo we've had a number of people in key positions over the years who were either only in it either for their own ends or who were fully "aligned" with whatever the project was at any given time.

So for me, whether you're Pasha, Anderson, Kean, Waggott, Mowbray, Venus, Broughton, Gestede, or Ismael, imo you're fully on board and a willing accomplice. You don't get to evade all blame for the ultimate destruction of the Club, you signed up for it and went along with it for varying degrees of time.

Edit: Anyone who was ambitious, railed against it, and tried to stand up for what was best for the Football Club as opposed to what was best for the owners or their lackeys (JDT and Eustace) should be lauded.

 

Edited 5 hours ago by RevidgeBlue

[RevidgeBlue]

2 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

An excuse to who though? If anyone defends the owners for again cutting costs on account of a throwaway comment of a pissed off manager stressing the importance of not having a pitch in working order, then they clearly are not very bright.

I bet there'll be quite a lot of the fan base on the LT comments section end of the scale who will be perfectly content if they see transfer activity reduced even further to fund pitch improvements because they saw that Ismael said it was ok.

[RevidgeBlue]

1 hour ago, NeilInBristol said:

Yes exactly!! He is safe

he is fine

he he can actually say whatever he wants as long as he gets the message out that there will be no investment in the squad because the money is now needed for the pitch, no doubt this will be used for a few windows. 

The club will have to fix the pitch now either to avoid fine or further negative attention, further abandonments, which will probably be costly especially with the injuries etc etc so they will be forced to repair the pitch or at least spend money on investigating and reports etc which he and Rudy etc can now justify why we have no money for transfers

getting VI to make it seem like there is now no money for transfers is genius from their perspective 

Don’t fall for the BS that comes out of the club

I agree.

The more I stew on this, the more I think it's a complete con job.

The Club were finally absolutely on the ropes with this one, no excuses whatsoever,  even with the overwhelming majority of the LT brigade.

Then after being holed up for a couple of days,  no doubt desperately wondering what the fuck they could say, up pops Ismael to save the day by saying "It's all right lads - take it out of the transfer budget!".

As RF 99 would say, they deserve no credit whatsoever for fixing the pitch. They have no choice but to do that now, otherwise we won't be able to fulfill our fixtures.

Edited 5 hours ago by RevidgeBlue

[Waggy76]

6 hours ago, Aqualung said:

When Val eventually leaves Rovers I would love to get him, JDT and Eustace in a room. Fuck the NDA and let them tell us what their thoughts are. 

Could be interesting. 

It would be interesting that is for sure , what would be more illuminating is to find out, who exactly is on the payroll. Plus, why don't they want to sell the club?? 

The answer could be the names on the payroll? 

 

[LeftWinger]

7 hours ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Dear Rovers Fans

For Christmas this year you can have

EITHER

A pitch that lasts 90 mins whenever it rains

OR

2 or 3 more players who aren't good enough for the Championship.

No, really, don't mention it. No need to thank us, it's what we do!

Love Rudy, Pash, Val and the rest of the Rovers Crew.

x

The club are introducing half season tickets.

They aren't like the standard half season tickets though. With these, you're guaranteed to see half a match before it's rained off. 

[wilsdenrover]

4 hours ago, RevidgeBlue said:

They do or certainly did before the Court case "pump in" £x m p.a.  

I know they didnt and still don't deserve massive credit for that as it was only really covering losses at the level they chose to run at at the time. However you seemed  to trivialise that financial support to the point where you almost pretended it wasn't occurring. 

They could for example have chosen to fund the Club from the very beginning at the sort of subsistence levels we are seeing now. I mean quite some time again now they were paying Mulgrew £20 k p.w to play for various League 1 Clubs after Mowbray fell out with him. Now we seemingly have a blanket wage cap of £10k p.w. for new players, even for the best first teamers.

What you seem unable to grasp is that whether you like or loathe the owners, and no matter how calamitous their ownership had been previously, that original level of financial support provided was very significant and not to be sniffed at. Not many owners would have been able to provide that level of support without blinking and had we had better people on the ground over the years it should have yielded far more success. Responsibility for not employing the right calibre of people lies fairly and squarely with the owners of course. So ultimately any respect for the amount of money they were putting in is largely cancelled out by the fact they were ultimately pissing their money up the wall. Yet there was always that faint hope that if they could get the right people in........ What we needed was a JDT or a Eustace in for a decent period on Mowbray levels of support. Unfortunately it never quite happened and seemingly never will now under their ownership.

I know we dont  agree on this, so there's no point going back and forth endlessly like you and chaddy do.

As you are uncomfortable with me at times, I'm similarly uncomfortable with your seeming desperation to exonerate anyone on the ground from any blame at all. Imo we've had a number of people in key positions over the years who were either only in it either for their own ends or who were fully "aligned" with whatever the project was at any given time.

So for me, whether you're Pasha, Anderson, Kean, Waggott, Mowbray, Venus, Broughton, Gestede, or Ismael, imo you're fully on board and a willing accomplice. You don't get to evade all blame for the ultimate destruction of the Club, you signed up for it and went along with it for varying degrees of time.

Edit: Anyone who was ambitious, railed against it, and tried to stand up for what was best for the Football Club as opposed to what was best for the owners or their lackeys (JDT and Eustace) should be lauded.

 

Average for first 5 years was £22.46 million 

Average for last 10 years was £10.77 million.

 

Edited 1 hour ago by wilsdenrover

[wilsdenrover]

9 hours ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Dear Rovers Fans

For Christmas this year you can have

EITHER

A pitch that lasts 90 mins whenever it rains

OR

2 or 3 more players who aren't good enough for the Championship.

No, really, don't mention it. No need to thank us, it's what we do!

Love Rudy, Pash, Val and the rest of the Rovers Crew.

x

We’ll get neither, the fans aren’t on their good list.

[USABlue]

2 hours ago, LeftWinger said:

The club are introducing half season tickets.

They aren't like the standard half season tickets though. With these, you're guaranteed to see half a match before it's rained off. 

Maybe they can offer half match tickets for when it rains.

[RevidgeBlue]

56 minutes ago, wilsdenrover said:

Average for first 5 years was £22.46 million 

Average for last 10 years was £10.77 million.

 

Can you dig out the average for years 6 -10 and the last 5 years if you've nothing better to do?

🙂

 That should prove quite informative Id have thought.

Edited 1 hour ago by RevidgeBlue

[Tomphil2]

Val's words say to me they aren't expecting or going to push the owners for extra pitch money. So are prepared to try and fund it themselves from any existing budget surplus and future sales/cuts.

I reckon he probably had a heads up from someone before he let fly in the press otherwise he'd have been gagged.

[roversfan99]

5 hours ago, RevidgeBlue said:

I bet there'll be quite a lot of the fan base on the LT comments section end of the scale who will be perfectly content if they see transfer activity reduced even further to fund pitch improvements because they saw that Ismael said it was ok.

They are the sorts of idiots who are best ignored anyway though. They dont need an excuse as they come up with enough of their own.

Fixing the pitch does not excuse not investing in the team to any rational person.

6 hours ago, RevidgeBlue said:

They do or certainly did before the Court case "pump in" £x m p.a.  

I know they didnt and still don't deserve massive credit for that as it was only really covering losses at the level they chose to run at at the time. However you seemed  to trivialise that financial support to the point where you almost pretended it wasn't occurring. 

They could for example have chosen to fund the Club from the very beginning at the sort of subsistence levels we are seeing now. I mean quite some time again now they were paying Mulgrew £20 k p.w to play for various League 1 Clubs after Mowbray fell out with him. Now we seemingly have a blanket wage cap of £10k p.w. for new players, even for the best first teamers.

What you seem unable to grasp is that whether you like or loathe the owners, and no matter how calamitous their ownership had been previously, that original level of financial support provided was very significant and not to be sniffed at. Not many owners would have been able to provide that level of support without blinking and had we had better people on the ground over the years it should have yielded far more success. Responsibility for not employing the right calibre of people lies fairly and squarely with the owners of course. So ultimately any respect for the amount of money they were putting in is largely cancelled out by the fact they were ultimately pissing their money up the wall. Yet there was always that faint hope that if they could get the right people in........ What we needed was a JDT or a Eustace in for a decent period on Mowbray levels of support. Unfortunately it never quite happened and seemingly never will now under their ownership.

I know we dont  agree on this, so there's no point going back and forth endlessly like you and chaddy do.

As you are uncomfortable with me at times, I'm similarly uncomfortable with your seeming desperation to exonerate anyone on the ground from any blame at all. Imo we've had a number of people in key positions over the years who were either only in it either for their own ends or who were fully "aligned" with whatever the project was at any given time.

So for me, whether you're Pasha, Anderson, Kean, Waggott, Mowbray, Venus, Broughton, Gestede, or Ismael, imo you're fully on board and a willing accomplice. You don't get to evade all blame for the ultimate destruction of the Club, you signed up for it and went along with it for varying degrees of time.

Edit: Anyone who was ambitious, railed against it, and tried to stand up for what was best for the Football Club as opposed to what was best for the owners or their lackeys (JDT and Eustace) should be lauded.

 

They still do the same now, they still have to. The one exception was the season we sold Wharton because the whole fee counted as profit. Had he not come through, even with the court case, they would have had no choice but to offset the losses again. I dont consider it financial support not to be sniffed at.

But all Championship owners have to do the same. It isnt very significant spending, its just offsetting losses that occur even in seasons where they dont spend a penny on transfers. Even Mowbray didnt have continued financial support, it was just one season really of reasonable spending. Similar to Tomasson albeit double the fees. No manager has had any prolonged support, the odd one has had fleeting  support.

If a manager is performing poorly, or a player, or a staff member, they deserve criticism of that I dont doubt. I also do respect when people kick up a fuss but again that is still largely based on protecting themselves, knowing they cannot succeed in these conditions and maintaining their personal reputation. Its not them taking a personal stand on behalf of the fans as part of a noble and ethical cause.

Some of those you mention obviously go beyond that. Suhail is an extension of Venkys. Anderson and Kean also went beyond merely protecting their own self interests.

As a side note, a lot of it is speculation. I dont personally believe that all current players are on less than £10k, Cantwell for one wont be, even if I can clearly see the intention to keep cutting the wage bill. Equally, not convinced Mulgrew was on £20k and even if he was, he had become surplus to requirements for footballing reasons, but had a contract from when he was a key player, we didnt do him a favour to keep paying him.