Scott Sellar was 9 stone dripping wet but one of the best midfielders in a league more physical than this one.

I think the current badge is superb and one of the best in the entire four divisions. It has everything you would want - our name, year of formation, Latin motto and the red rose of Lancashire. Tweaking it a little with the blue and white halved background would be good and, as EiT says, perhaps changing the yellow lettering and also changing the shade of blue to royal blue on the circular part of the badge. A very marginal update, for me.

Hugill proving far more effective for QPR as a loan than either of our big money strikers. This season looks an opportunity missed, with the money we've spent over the past 2 years we should have a much stronger starting 11 than we do.

I'm out in Spain at the moment so I can't do it now. I'm a klutz with computers but No 2 son is pretty good. I'll see what he can do when I get back. It really is a great little series of drawings, the caricature is Dougie to a tee.

This league his very poor and the teams who do well are organized ones . Look at the spine of the Rovers team Walton , Williams , Johnson and Graham a very experienced spine and good enough for this league . So wheres TM going wrong Bennett and Lenihan are midfielders Gallagher , Armstrong , are forwards and they are all playing out of position . If we are going to keep playing this way its going to be a long hard season . If we are to move forward as a club TM needs to be brave a get more young lads in Rankin , Tosin in to the back four and move Lenihan into midfield Rothwell and Chapman on to the wings or Could Travis be moved out wide and have a midfield of Chapman Lenihan Johnson and Travis. Dack and Graham upfront and a back four of , Rankin, Tosin , Williams and Cunningham something needs to give its the same everyweek silly mistakes and players switching off

A foul would be given in that situation 99% of the time, we had two players impeding the goalkeeper so I don't see how we can cry unfair treatment there. We already got away with one against Hull. Wonder if Mowbray is instructing the players to do this?

Views on the disallowed goal? I thought it was weak goalkeeping and kind from the ref.

Let's hope he turns out to be the next Gemmill!

How does a shirker like Armstrong walk into the first XI but Rothwell and Chapman are hung out to dry?

Even though the quality is low, you could make a case for most Championship games being 'tough' if you really wanted to. Let's take the next three games. Millwall have already been to WBA - a place where some don't mind a 3-2 defeat - twice this season and won and drawn. Only lost once out of six. Can already hear them being dubbed a 'tough nut to crack' or similar. Reading away. They've also been to WBA and drawn. They also beat Cardiff at home 3-0.....some people were happy with the 0-0 draw we had against them last week. We lost there last season, so a draw there would be an improvement, etc etc. If Luton have a couple of decent results before we play them their 'promotion bounce' will no doubt be mentioned, and you could go on and on. At the end of the day it's all nonsense because there's zero to fear and, if our aim is to make the top 6 like Mowbray and the players told us all summer, we should be going out to win every game and not being content with dropping points against teams we're supposed to be aiming to be up there with.

We live in a country where people are offended by what someone says and ambivalent about what someone does. There would be greater outrage if the EFL made an insensitive joke on Twitter than letting a club shut its gates.

Fulham yes , not sure about anyone else and that includes Sky favourites Leeds !

Controversial view but IF we were to change our badge, then I wouldnt want us to go down the route of a boring circular clip art style thing. I'd either like a refurbishment of our current badge - bolder, brighter, less cluttered but keeping the same layout and shape. Alternatively I'd like us to adopt a variant of the town coat of arms worn in the 1960 Cup final, but with a modern twist. I've always liked the Blackburn Rugby Club badge as it is a twist on the town arms and think something similar would be nice as a Rovers badge. Ticks a lot of boxes. Red rose, Blackburn arms with the water and bees, blue and white badge. Simple yet effective. Could be used as a modern badge but very much traditional. Just need to add the Latin motto and 1875 onto the bottom of it and it would look decent.

I'm not sure about the blue and white. Saffron and pink maybe.

Putting halves in the background is a daft idea...oh hang on...

Watched the highlights again. Oh dear- we were horrible for all three goals. Many thanks to the Baggies for our two but we were over generous in return. Actually very unusual to see a game of five goals without a sinlge "proper" goal scored by either side.

Its an interesting letter from Dale, but of course he has failed to address certain things. the most damning was the sale of the clubs debts to his daughters partner, so you have to wonder if the league are totally to blame, or if it is six of one and half a dozen of the other. I don't trust the league one little bit and as can be seen from many a shady owner, getting their hands on clubs, the system needs a total overhaul.

Words were exchanged at half time and we brought Rothwell on. Will he start the next game? Probably not. Mowbray keeps making the same mistakes and just when you think he has learnt, he goes backwards. Then everyone seems shocked when the performances suffer. We’ll be having this same debate week in week out until Mowbray stops trying to keep everyone happy with his squad rotation strategy. How long til we see Evans or even Smallwood back in the first team in some I’ll-judged ‘back to basics’ approach?

Spot on. Mowbray is sending in the 'shorter' players to impede the keeper hoping to get away with it sometimes, which we clearly did at Hull. If Graham or Gallagher were doing it we would have no discussion.

Deep Purple - Child In Time

https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/17874018.dack-reveals-words-exchanged-rovers-dressing-room/ I thought something had gone on as we were a few minutes late coming out for the second half. Sometimes a manager has to sit back and let the players rant at each other and it looks like this was the case. It certainly helped as we were far better in the second half.

You dont see where you could justify starting him? How about on the right of the 3 behind the striker. Second best player againat WBA

My team no square pegs in round holes in this lot Walton . Rankin . Tosin. Williams . Cunningham . Rothwell . Johnson .Travis . Chapman . Dack . Garham . Would like to see Lenihan moved in to midfield if Johnson is injured and Buckley for Dack if he goes missing and Gallagher for Graham 70 mins Armstrong for Rothwell or Chapman easy really

"Fergie for England" we used to shout from the terraces but we never got our wish, although he was so frustratingly inconsistent that it was never really going to happen. Utterly brilliant on his good days though.

Walton was never getting there. He actually signals for Cunningham to knock it away.

Madon, can you post this photo to WMC group.

I watched them back again this morning. Not a great day for the Irish lads. Cunningham was poor for the second, Walton should have been out quicker to at least narrow the angle for a shot,but Cunningham let their guy get in ahead of him. The third one then, lenihan should have taken him down quickly and subtly. I don't know what he was trying to do. Walton out slow again though. Looks to be 1 area where Raya was better. I'm going in random order here,but Armstrongs contribution to the first one sums him up in my opinion. Their guy got past him and he made absolutely minimum effort to get back. Like that should be highlighted at video work in front of the team. You can debate the ability of every player all day, but lack if effort is easy to spot and absolutely inexcusable. If he had have actually ran full speed back he would have been close enough to get a block on the chip that came back off the post. Again, we are striking me as a team who will never,ever do it when the chips are down and ,for example, a win would put us in the play off positions. We are grand when the pressure is off or there are no expectations. We might very well go on a run again,but next time a game comes around like Brentford last season, we will lose it. Rothwell should be starting. Its disappointing that none of Gallagher, Brereton or Armstrong look more effective than Graham up front. For the money they cost , we should have been able to effectively replace Graham.

I think the difficulty is the wages that a top class striker would want to come here. We can’t afford the break our wage structure, the wages to turnover ratio is already too high. You therefore have to invest money in younger strikers on low-ish wages who have the potential to develop into top strikers. That’s what we’ve done with Gallagher and Brereton. I think both will be good players at this level and we’ll see the fruits of that given time.

Any opposing manager looking at a side who managed a solid midtable finish last season and have since signed good but ageing championship names like Downing and Johnson and have 'invested' c 15 million in strikers in the last 12 months should really be the one looking at Rovers and saying 'tough game' as well.

A shout-out too goes to Armstrong and reiterating @Hasta 's point. Armstrong looked as if he didn't give a shit and arguably cost us a goal, by letting his man leave him and him literally jog back having given the ball away. In my opinion - Rothwell, Costello, Buckley all should be ahead of him. At least these boys would show more drive and passion, and arguably are better than him.

I agree entirely. His turn of pace and ability to play on the half turn is far more important than him not being built like Johnson. He keeps a decent tempo to the game when he has the ball and is constantly on the move. He will make mistakes but these will be highlighted because he is young and inexperienced.

This is why I think our start is far from a disaster, and those who want TM out on the back of it are way too hard and premature in their judgement. He's a steady, solid manager with knowledge, passion & respect within the game. Not spectacular or flashy by any means, but being that won't rebuild this club. There's such a long way to go this season. Those that have shot out of the traps (Swansea & Charlton especially) will almost certainly fall back into the pack. We're taking time to gel & find the right combinations, but there's top 6 quality in our squad in this league if we can find the right system going forward and cut out silly defensive errors at the back. IMO we're not far off being realistic top 6 challengers come March / April, at which point anything can happen.

https://www.rovers.co.uk/news/2019/august/lacklustre-first-half-let-us-down/ I find this disappointing as Mowbray doesn't mention the individuals who cost us goals, not even a general comment about the mistakes. After his recent public calling out of young players it doesn't sit right with me.

Whilst the defence did alright against the likes of Boro and Hull, against a good side today it was shown to be very poor. That defence will get us no higher than mid table. Bennett was as terrible as ever but we all know he's undroppable, Williams' limitations at centre back were highlighted by a good side. Lenihan was poor against higher quality opponents which is a regular theme with him, Cunningham poor for their first goal but given zero help by Armstrong in the first half. Armstrong is not good enough for Championship football he's another Will Grigg he will score goals in League 1 but isn't up to it in the Championship. Ridiculous decision to start Gallagher over Graham and to then only give Graham 15 minutes or so when a goal was needed was another poor decision. Rothwell looks like his confidence has taken a big hit which is understandable at the end of last season he was playing well and brimming with confidence yet he finds himself back on the bench for the new season. Downing looked every bit his 35 years against a side with far more pace and energy than anything that we have previously played. Buckley looks like he has some ability but he is still a fair way away from being ready for Championship football, he's far too lightweight. A spell out on loan in League 1 or 2 would do a lot for him. Dack and Travis who combined for the opener were about the only to bright points of today. Travis good throughout, Dack was good first half but drifted in the second when playing as a false 9. Mowbray has played him in that role a few times now and he has never looked comfortable playing it, a stupid idea especially when we have Graham on the bench. Nearly 3 years into Mowbray's tenure the vast majority of players have been signed by him and yet he still seems to have no idea of his best 11 or best system. Until he is gone we will be treading water in mid table at the very best.

There aren't truly any "tough" games in The Championship. The gulf in class is not that wide compared to what you'd find in the top flight. Anyone can beat anyone on their day.

For all the much vaunted stability that Mowbray has brought under his tenure we will not/cannot move forward to where we should be. It will be mid table mediocrity for ever and a day under this man.

Shame for Jimmy only 25 wickets off 600. If he gets fit and he’s still got the hunger there’s definitely a place for him. But at mid 30s, young family etc 3 winter tours to New Zealand, South Africa and Sri Lanka might just be enough for him to say sod it. As for lancs another record non roses crowd last night of 15,196. Shame the home game in bloody Durham on a Wednesday. The ECB/Sky aren’t fit for purpose. The ECB schedule their premier domestic tournament (in terms of revenue) at the same time as an ashes test match. Then show zero consideration to Lancs fans who’ve been dealt a bum hand by not putting them on Saturday. Also with rain delays day one can go to 7pm which clashes with the start of the t20s and if there’s lost overs days 2 onwards could go on past 7pm in which case sky will have scheduling conflicts. Suppose cricket isn’t any different to football in that the considerations are 1 money, 2 money, 3 money, 4 money, 5 TV, 6 clubs/players and rock bottom the fans.

I remember well the first march from the Havelock to Ewood before the Arsenal match. To say I was disappointed would be an understatement. Only a few hundred turned up and the disdain we received around Ewood was alarming. We were told to get behind the team, the owners, Mean, we are not proper fans etc. I often wonder if it would have been different in thousands of fans had marched instead of pouring scorn on the ones highlighting the plight we felt was coming. How right we were. One of the only true things Kean said was that only 1% of fans were protesting.

Yes it was compete shit. I was extremely down by it all. I hated the owners absolutely for what they were doing to my fantastic club. Ergo I was on marches, meetings, walk outs and the rest of it showing my ongoing pride in my club. Yet you were embarrassed to be a Rovers fan?

Exactly. I was ashamed of those fans who sat on their hands and watched these nefarious people do what they liked with our club - under the guise of “backing the boys”. I was never ashamed to support this club. Poor show Philip.

Shame for being a Rovers fan? I stopped reading there.

open letters from Forever Bury sent to Jevans today Earlier this morning the Forever Bury board submitted the following two letters directly to Debbie Jevons. Dear Miss Jevans We write in response to the EFL’s decision to expel Bury FC from the football league in reliance on Article 4.7.5. It is our position that the application of Article 4.7.5 in this manner is misguided and contrary to the purpose of 4.7.5 which is a protective provision designed to ensure the preservation of a member club by facilitating the transfer of a club’s share as has just occurred in the case of Bolton Wanderers. It is not, and never has been, envisaged as a sword to expel a club from league membership and the EFL’s utilisation of the provision in this manner is both ill-founded and inequitable. This provision has formed part of the EFL’s articles for over 20 years (being present in all restatements of the EFL’s Memorandum and Articles since those filed on 27 July 1998) and has never in that time been utilised as a mechanism with which to expel a club from league membership. This is despite over 61 ‘Insolvency Events’ occurring in the seasons 1998 to 2008 and 13 of those clubs involved experiencing more than one insolvency event in that period (figures taken from an article published in the International Journal of Sports Marketing & Sponsorship in April 2010). Whilst we don’t have the full figures to hand for Insolvency Events over the last ten years, we are aware a further 18 clubs have entered administration in that timeframe, none of which have been expelled from the league by the EFL. Articles 4.5 and 4.6 on their construction expressly refer to the ‘transfer’ of the membership share which is in contrast to the penal league Regulations which expressly provide for the ‘expulsion’ of a member club such as Regulations 8.2 and 92.2.9. These disciplinary Regulations recognise that where such a serious and fundamental step such as expulsion is recommended by the Board, that it must be ratified by the member clubs at general meeting given the catastrophic consequences that expulsion of a member club has for clubs, players, fans and communities. It is beyond dispute that the fans and minority shareholders of Bury FC which we represent are sufficiently affected by the outcome of the EFL’s rash decision to expel the club and on this basis we have the requisite standing to request that as a minimum the EFL immediately reinstate Bury’s membership pending ratification of the Board’s recommendation for expulsion at a properly constituted general meeting of the members of the EFL. The EFL’S misguided handling of this matter has directly prejudiced the interests all Bury FC stakeholders including its creditors, shareholders, players and employees and we reserve all our rights to hold the EFL accountable in this respect. It is however our hope that this matter can be resolved quickly and without the need for formal legal action to challenge the validity of the EFL’s decision on the grounds that expelling Bury in the manner employed was ultra vires and resulted in procedural unfairness. To this end we should be grateful if you would revert with your decision by no later than 5pm today (30 August 2019). Additionally, the following email was sent later this morning. Dear Mrs Jevans, Further to our earlier letter we also wish to raise the following issues in relation to the EFLs failure to follow procedures and act in accordance with natural justice. 1 How do you justify your failure to inform the staff and owner of the club in advance of a public announcement of Bury FCs expulsion from the League? 2 When the Board made its decision to expel our club,members were not even in the same room together. The final decision was made as a result of some Board members sending in Emails and text messages. How can this be regarded as a professional or legally acceptable way of making such a profoundly important decision?

Yeah, Wharton’s dined off a couple! As an aside, tiny bit surprised Travis isn’t in the England under 21 squad. He can’t be too far off...although perhaps best he’s flying slightly under the radar for now.

It’s complete bullshit tbh mate. Whatever can be rightfully levelled at Mowbray, I have literally NEVER heard anyone in football refer to anything other than how thoroughly decent the guy is. The drivel that spews out “you can just see Joe Rothwell doesn’t like him” the crap about Joe Nuttall being “let down” by him etc...if only they knew the truth. How much respect both have for the manager. In fact how much the group suffer if they think they’re letting him down. Are his tactics always great? Does he sign brilliant players everytime? Nope. The biggest criticism which stands mutually between here and and the club is that, if anything, TM is too loyal. The annaihilation of the manager by some on here is embarrassing.

Well they certainly could not play it at the Manchester Council stadium that your team play at if that is the criteria.

I think the EFL bent over backwards for Bolton ( much bigger club , no argument) it would have been interesting to see what would have happened if Bolton stood alone .. I dont think the EFL wanted two clubs from the same area going out of the league , so poor Bury had to go !!!

Anderson looks like a bad ‘un doesn’t he. We shouldn’t be surprised though because I reckon all Anderson’s in football are bad ‘uns. You have Ken, then you have Jerome. Myles was bloody useless as was Anders. out with the Andersons.

Bugger off and stop talking sense.

Great discussion here One more for the mix. My 2002 hat trick for Langho reserves against Blue Star was a performance for the ages. Whilst some of these players are legendary in stature could they have done it on a pleasant Tuesday evening at Pleasy in September?